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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Guest RdrEm

How long is a piece of string?

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You posted a site that quotes Matthew Arnold .. 


Matthew Arnold has preserved this truth in his immortal verse:14

“He saves the sheep, the goats he doth not save!”
So rang Tertullian’s sentence on the side
of that unpitying Phrygian sect which cried,–
“Him can no fount of fresh forgiveness lave,
Whose sins once washed by the baptismal wave!”
So spake the fierce Tertullian. But she sighed,
The infant Church,–of love she felt the tide
Stream on her from her Lord’s yet recent grave,
And then she smiled, and in the Catacombs,
With eyes suffused but heart inspired true,
On those walls subterranean, where she hid
Her head in ignominy, death and tombs,
She her Good Shepherd’s hasty image drew
And on his shoulders not a lamb, a kid!



Here is another Matthew Arnold quote. 

Arnold recounts a powerful sermon he attended discussing the "salvation by Jesus Christ", he writes: "Never let us deny to this story power and pathos, or treat with hostility ideas which have entered so deep into the life of Christendom. But the story is not true; it never really happened".[30]


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Guest RdrEm
1 minute ago, Becky said:

So the game goes on.  This is exactly what i mean. 


The doctrine of our staff is summarized in the following paragraphs:


The Bible, having been inspired by God, is entirely trustworthy and without error. Therefore, we are to believe and obey its teachings. The Bible is the only source of special revelation for the church today.



Well. OK. You can scripturally justify that The Books we have in the Bible, (or at least those that St. Paul had in the Septuagint Greek OT scriptures, and probably his own epistles were "Inspired by God, and useful etc.").


"Is entirely trustworthy", I won't contend on, because that is a matter of 'faith' not provable by scripture. "Without error" is something else which, though a very pious notion, is not supported by scripture itself. Scripture nowhere claims of itself that it is 'without error'. So to make that claim is going beyond the scripture itself. I am a servant of Christ. I don't have to accept doctrines of men, no matter how pious they may seem. Scripture merely contains all necessary information for mankind to discover the truth of his own condition and the providence of God to meet their needs. Any 'Bible Worship', beyond this is unnecessary piety.


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After 50+ posts you decide to be honest. .. You will not use this site for teaching your heresy .

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2 hours ago, RdrEm said:

The first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world was by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, and universal salvation was one of the tenets.


The first complete presentation of Christianity as a system was by Origen (A.D. 220) and universal salvation was explicitly contained in it.


Universal salvation was the prevailing doctrine in Christendom as long as Greek, the language of the New Testament, was the language of Christendom.


Universalism was least known when Greek, the language of the New Testament was least known, and when Latin was the language of the Church in its darkest, most ignorant, and corrupt ages.


With the exception of the arguments of Augustine (A.D. 420), there is not an argument known to have been framed against Universalism for at least four hundred years after Christ, by any of the ancient fathers.


Try reading this:


So, you can't quote any text of the ECF's that support universalism?.....which is what I asked for.  

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11 hours ago, RdrEm said:

As a theologian, I suppose I understand theology to be systematic and logical, so yes, I suppose I do understand what it is. That being said, there is nothing unsystematic about universalism. It is a very ancient, logically, text based theological position, held by Origen and many others.

Gotta love it when you're asking someone for the definition of a term and they define it by repeating the term. :classic_rolleyes:

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