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bjeremiah

Is America the endtime Beast country prophesized in Revelation and Daniel?

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Just now, Becky said:

Just as the question it is. 

So you're asking me if God's Word tells us to search the Scriptures about the antichrist? Is that what you are asking?

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Yup ... That simple ...:classic_smile:

Seems to me we are to look to Him not the other way. 

 

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 
Mat 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 
Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 
 

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58 minutes ago, davy said:

(These events are hard-linked to this Rev.12 casting out of Satan and his angels to our earthly dimension. When this casting out happens near the very end of this world, then the full power of Christ's Salvation will have fully manifested in the Heavenly, because Satan will no longer be allowed to approach God's Throne to accuse us. This is literally showing us Satan being cast out the Heavenly altogether at the end, because at Satan's original rebellion and casting out, our Lord Jesus had not come yet to die on the cross and offer His Salvation.)

 

 

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

(This is another pointer to this casting out of Satan being for the very end of this world, and not in the time of old when he first rebelled against God. This event of those who overcome him by the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus) means 'after'... Jesus had come and died on the cross and resurrected. That beyond all doubt moves this Rev.12 casting out to the end of this world, and not back at Satan's original rebellion of old.)

Satan being called the accuser of the brethren is just a general statement. Do you think our holy God would allow an evil fallen angel to make daily reports to him. No, Satan made one accusation that God's creation of mankind wouldn't work because we couldn't be sinless. It seems ludicrous to even think God would allow evil around His throne. When He talked to Satan in Job 1 & 2, He asked an opinion from Satan, but God was on the earth. Otherwise, Satan would not so much address God. 

 

Matt. 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

Yes, Rev. 12 talks of saints overcoming Satan after Christ's blood, but that blood covers all sins before and after the cross. The only way any of this works is Satan was cast out of God's heaven to the heavenly realm here on earth before Eden.There are no two casting outs.  :classic_biggrin:

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4 hours ago, davy said:

I don't, and I don't see that idea fitting Scripture, even though the Reformers thought so because of the persecutions they were under in their day. If it were true back then in their day, then Jesus' 2nd coming should have happened in their generation and His eternal Kingdom would already de facto be manifested here on earth with all the wicked in the pit.

 

So really the pope as the antichrist idea is actually a centuries old idea that didn't pan out, but is kept alive by those who now may have an agenda against the Catholic Church. (and no, I am not a Catholic, I'm a Protestant Christian)

 

Now could the office of the pope serve the idea of the "many antichrists" idea of 1 John 18? Yes, that I believe, but not the idea of the Antichrist which idea is also there in 1 John 2:18.

 

Look at the deeds the church continues.  They have their Jesuit secret society and many other secret societies doing who knows what.  There are books written about the evil deeds of the Jesuits.  In the book Operation Gladio by Paul Williams, the evil deeds of the current pope are depicted. I believe the many antichrists come out of the pope's office and I believe the last pope will be the antichrist.  

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There are many folks in church that are not part of the Church. Just as there are many who claim Christianity who have no fruit. 

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9 hours ago, Becky said:

Yup ... That simple ...:classic_smile:

Seems to me we are to look to Him not the other way. 

 

Mat 7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 
Mat 7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 
Joh 5:39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 
 

Our Lord warned us in 3 distinct places in Scripture, one directly and the others through His Apostles; I could even say 4 if 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" is included which Paul mentioned.

 

1. In Matthew 24 & Mark 13 while upon the Mount of Olives, concerning the pseudo-Christ.

2. In 2 Thess.2:3-8 about the "man of sin" and "that Wicked".

3. In Rev.13 about the "another beast" that has two horns 'like' a Lamb, but speaks as the dragon (Satan per Rev.12:9).

4. In 2 Cor.11 where Paul warned about the "another Jesus".

 

In the Matt.24, 2 Thess.2, and Rev.13 examples, they all parallel each other regarding the signs and wonders that false one is to work deceiving the whole world.

 

Do you dispute these Scriptures being about the false one that is to come?

 

 

 

8 hours ago, deade said:

Satan being called the accuser of the brethren is just a general statement. Do you think our holy God would allow an evil fallen angel to make daily reports to him. No, Satan made one accusation that God's creation of mankind wouldn't work because we couldn't be sinless. It seems ludicrous to even think God would allow evil around His throne. When He talked to Satan in Job 1 & 2, He asked an opinion from Satan, but God was on the earth. Otherwise, Satan would not so much address God. 

 

Matt. 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

Yes, Rev. 12 talks of saints overcoming Satan after Christ's blood, but that blood covers all sins before and after the cross. The only way any of this works is Satan was cast out of God's heaven to the heavenly realm here on earth before Eden.There are no two casting outs.  :classic_biggrin:

Satan today still stands before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse before our Heavenly Father, that's what the Rev.12:10 verse is about in regards to his accusing the brethren day and night.

 

Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

 

And when Satan is cast out per that Rev.12 Scripture, then "the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ" will have come in the Heavenly. It's like Jerusalem in peace but still with a terrorist able to walk the streets, but with Satan today still being allowed to accuse us before God's Throne in Heaven. When Satan is cast down to our earthly dimension at the very end of this world, for the tribulation, that is when Christ's Salvation in the Heavenly will no longer have a terrorist like Satan able to appear there. This is why the Rev.12:8 phrase, "neither was their place found anymore in heaven" is so important to understand.

 

 

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1 hour ago, davy said:

Do you dispute these Scriptures being about the false one that is to come?

I dont dispute God's Word... The verses you posted  have nothing to do with my question. I do often dispute our interpretations of God's Word. 

 

52 minutes ago, davy said:

Satan today still stands before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse before our Heavenly Father, that's what the Rev.12:10 verse is about in regards to his accusing the brethren day and night.

 

So you believe, God who forsake The Christ  as He took on the sins of the world, allows sin in the form of satan in heaven? 

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5 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Look at the deeds the church continues.  They have their Jesuit secret society and many other secret societies doing who knows what.  There are books written about the evil deeds of the Jesuits.  In the book Operation Gladio by Paul Williams, the evil deeds of the current pope are depicted. I believe the many antichrists come out of the pope's office and I believe the last pope will be the antichrist.  

You don't think there's some Protestant Churches that have left Biblical understanding and follow man? What was that guy in California at the Crystal Palace years ago that taught mysticism and Christian doctrine mixed? Shuller, or something? And his son took that over and continued it? How can places like that be considered a Christian Church that pushes pagan doctrines?

 

A friend of mine sent me a Chicago newspaper photo of three Buddhist monks chanting mantras over the Communion Table of Christ in a Protestant Church. Not only Catholic Churches are pushing a joining of other religions, but some Protestant Churches are doing it too.

 

Because Paul said in 2 Thess.2 that the coming "man of sin", whom I like the early Church fathers did, will call that false one the Antichrist, because that coming false one will set himself up as God, and over all that is even called... God, or that worshipped, that means he is coming to play the God of ALL religions, not just Christianity. And the Scriptures are pointing more to a Jewish pseudo-Christ than a Christian pope.

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Becky said:

So you believe, God who forsake The Christ  as He took on the sins of the world, allows sin in the form of satan in heaven? 

Not a valid question to ask someone like me, since I well know our Lord Jesus died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe, and The Father raised Him the 3rd day.

 

So I will ask you a question that will answer your question. Why are brethren in Christ Jesus today still being murdered by the wicked since Jesus defeated all His enemies on His cross?

 

 

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Just now, davy said:

Not a valid question to ask someone like me, since I well know our Lord Jesus died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe, and The Father raised Him the 3rd day.

 

So I will ask you a question that will answer your question. Why are brethren in Christ Jesus today still being murdered by the wicked since Jesus defeated all His enemies on His cross?

 

 

Sure is a valid question in light of this statement in your post above 

 

8 minutes ago, davy said:

Satan today still stands before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse before our Heavenly Father, that's what the Rev.12:10 verse is about in regards to his accusing the brethren day and night.

 

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13 minutes ago, Becky said:

I dont dispute God's Word... The verses you posted  have nothing to do with my question. I do often dispute our interpretations of God's Word. 

Disputing one's interpretation based on Scripture evidence is Scriptural. Disputing one's interpretation just based on 'opinion' with no Scripture support is against God's Ways.

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Are you avoiding the questions again? Do the Scripture tell us to search them for an antichrist? 

You posted this quote  so you must believe it to be  right? 

16 minutes ago, davy said:

Satan today still stands before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse before our Heavenly Father, that's what the Rev.12:10 verse is about in regards to his accusing the brethren day and night.

 

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34 minutes ago, Becky said:

Sure is a valid question in light of this statement in your post above 

 

 

Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

 

That underlined phrase is my Scripture support, so if you want to call me a liar based on that, then you're only expressing your opinion, and you will have lost any argument on that. The only space left you can argue on what I stated is the 'when' of that Scripture taking place. But to argue the 'when' part, more Rev.12 Scripture must be included with that verse 10 which establishing 'when' that casting out would take place...

 

Rev 12:11-17
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

 

All those above Rev.12 verses directly link to that Rev.12 event of Satan being cast to the earth with his angels.

 

Look at verse 11. How can those overcome Satan by "the blood of the Lamb" if that time of casting out was back of old when Satan first rebelled against God? And that overcoming there by those saints is to the death, which links to the 5th Seal timing of those who will be beheaded at the end of this world like their brethren under the altar that cried to God.

 

Then the devil as that serpent  and dragon going after the symbolic woman that has "the testimony of Jesus Christ", which certainly is not the orthodox unbelieving Jews. It's all pointing to the end of this world, even the "time, and times, and half a time" which is the 1260 days or 3.5 years tribulation period covered in Daniel and Rev.11.

 

29 minutes ago, Becky said:

Are you avoiding the questions again? Do the Scripture tell us to search them for an antichrist? 

You posted this quote  so you must believe it to be  right? 

 

You so far haven't given Scriptural support for your question. I did, showing the events of the Rev.12 Scripture again. So it's not me that's not willing to move forward in understanding. I won't dilly-dally around the bush with your wanting to play avoidance games.

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So why not just say yes i believe sin is in Heaven in the form of satan? 

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Just now, Becky said:

So why not just say yes i believe sin is in Heave in the form of satan? 

That's changing the subject altogether. The subject here is the casting out of the devil out of the heavenly, particularly the 'when'. I showed per God's Holy Writ of Rev.12:7-17 how to know the ballpark when. That ain't about whether sin is still in Heaven or not.

 

If you want to get technical, the abode of hell (haides) is in the heavenly dimension. So the angels which rebelled at the flood of Noah's day were locked in chains in the pit of hell (tartaroo Peter said, which was the deepest level of the pit), and they are still there until God visits them on the Judgment Day according to Jude. So even when Satan is cast down to this earth at the end with his angels (i.e., his angels that are not locked in the pit), in Heaven there will still be the wicked in that dimension. But not Satan and the angels mentioned there.

 

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Scriptural support for asking if the Scriptures tell us to search for antichrist?  Is that what you are asking? 

 

I am asking you for Scriptural support to your searching for antichrists. Do you think every question asked must have Scriptural support ?  That is backwards. 

 

 

Mat_7:7  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 
Luk_21:28  And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 
Heb_9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. 
 

 

Thank you for making your self clear. @davy. Talking in forums, it really helps to understand where people are coming from. 

 

15 minutes ago, davy said:

That's changing the subject altogether.

Not a change of subject asking a question of clarification to  a post is not changing the subject. 

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2 hours ago, Becky said:

So why not just say yes i believe sin is in Heaven in the form of satan? 

Hi Becky, Rev.12 throws up two questions about heaven.

Q1. How can there be war in heaven when it is supposed to be a place of everlasting peace? 

Rev 12:7-8
(7)  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
(8)  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Q2. From where does Satan accuse the brethren before our God day & night prior to his being cast down?

Rev 12:10
(10)  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Currently there are at least three heavens mentioned in Scripture, one being the sky, the other being whatever the Universe exists in, and the third one being another dimension where God manifests His glory as referenced by Paul in 2 Cor 12: 1-4.

It appears from Scripture that there are times that God and Satan dialogue in an interesting manner, not necessarily in the third heaven though but rather where it suits the Lord to meet up, in both these reported cases with Satan being questioned by God. 

Job 1:6-8
(6)  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
(7)  And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
(8)  And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Zec 3:1-2
(1)  And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
(2)  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

 

12 hours ago, davy said:

Actually, the 1 John 2:18 verse does... declare a singular antichrist. It's in the following phrase...

"... and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, ..."

Where did they already hear that antichrist shall come?

What John revealed to them there that was new information, was that there were "many antichrists" already at work. That facet they apparently had not heard. So the verse actually is about a singular "antichrist", and a then about "many antichrists".

One who pays close attention in our Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 will discover Jesus warning us about both the idea of many coming saying they are Christ, and then a singular false one that comes to work great signs and wonders that would almost deceive even His very elect which others will say is Christ.

 

I like the way John by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit avoids using the term antichrist as a title. We don't see it capitalised or read of the Antichrist. Rather it comes across as a description of behaviour.

1Jn 2:22
(22)  Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.
 

Edited by Placable37
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6 hours ago, davy said:

Our Lord warned us in 3 distinct places in Scripture, one directly and the others through His Apostles; I could even say 4 if 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" is included which Paul mentioned.

 

1. In Matthew 24 & Mark 13 while upon the Mount of Olives, concerning the pseudo-Christ.

2. In 2 Thess.2:3-8 about the "man of sin" and "that Wicked".

3. In Rev.13 about the "another beast" that has two horns 'like' a Lamb, but speaks as the dragon (Satan per Rev.12:9).

4. In 2 Cor.11 where Paul warned about the "another Jesus".

 

In the Matt.24, 2 Thess.2, and Rev.13 examples, they all parallel each other regarding the signs and wonders that false one is to work deceiving the whole world.

 

Do you dispute these Scriptures being about the false one that is to come?

 

 

 

Satan today still stands before God's Throne in Heaven to accuse before our Heavenly Father, that's what the Rev.12:10 verse is about in regards to his accusing the brethren day and night.

 

Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

 

And when Satan is cast out per that Rev.12 Scripture, then "the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ" will have come in the Heavenly. It's like Jerusalem in peace but still with a terrorist able to walk the streets, but with Satan today still being allowed to accuse us before God's Throne in Heaven. When Satan is cast down to our earthly dimension at the very end of this world, for the tribulation, that is when Christ's Salvation in the Heavenly will no longer have a terrorist like Satan able to appear there. This is why the Rev.12:8 phrase, "neither was their place found anymore in heaven" is so important to understand.

 

 

Satan was cast out before man and this universe were created. 

 

6 hours ago, davy said:

You don't think there's some Protestant Churches that have left Biblical understanding and follow man? What was that guy in California at the Crystal Palace years ago that taught mysticism and Christian doctrine mixed? Shuller, or something? And his son took that over and continued it? How can places like that be considered a Christian Church that pushes pagan doctrines?

 

A friend of mine sent me a Chicago newspaper photo of three Buddhist monks chanting mantras over the Communion Table of Christ in a Protestant Church. Not only Catholic Churches are pushing a joining of other religions, but some Protestant Churches are doing it too.

 

Because Paul said in 2 Thess.2 that the coming "man of sin", whom I like the early Church fathers did, will call that false one the Antichrist, because that coming false one will set himself up as God, and over all that is even called... God, or that worshipped, that means he is coming to play the God of ALL religions, not just Christianity. And the Scriptures are pointing more to a Jewish pseudo-Christ than a Christian pope.

 

 

 

Not a valid question to ask someone like me, since I well know our Lord Jesus died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe, and The Father raised Him the 3rd day.

 

So I will ask you a question that will answer your question. Why are brethren in Christ Jesus today still being murdered by the wicked since Jesus defeated all His enemies on His cross?

 

 

I think it is clear throughout the ages that the pope is the man who continually sits in this position with his spiritual and political standing in the world.  The Catholic church is the sinful woman referred to in Revelation.  See video below for a good explanation of this (I know the video is by SDA and I am not SDA but I think they explain this one well):  

 

 

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On 6/29/2018 at 11:34 PM, bjeremiah said:

As you may already know the books of Revelation and Daniel etc. prophesized the Beast country, to be appeared in End time. Many people says about it: S
ome say it is EU (Europe Union) or other says it is
UN (United Nations) or other says it is resurrected Roman empire etc. For me, I convince that USA, America is this very nation, end time beast country.

The beast with 10 horns likely referred to the European Colonial powers who had colonized nearly the whole world, eg the British Empire had ruled the colonies of Palestine and India right up to 1949.

 

Out of the above beast with 10 horns, arose the little horn mentioned in DANIEL.7:8 & 25 which likely referred to USA being the last superpower of the world before the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth.

....... This is evidenced by USA changing her Christian-based laws by abolishing laws against adultery, sodomy/homosexuality/LGBTQ, divorce, abortion, etc from the 1960s onward.

 

P S - Superpower USA is called the little horn because she could not even defeat the Vietnamese communists(= 1960s Vietnam War) and the Muslim terrorists.

Edited by discipler77

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11 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Satan was cast out before man and this universe were created. 

 

I think it is clear throughout the ages that the pope is the man who continually sits in this position with his spiritual and political standing in the world.  The Catholic church is the sinful woman referred to in Revelation.  See video below for a good explanation of this (I know the video is by SDA and I am not SDA but I think they explain this one well): 

I don't think it's clear at all from the Biblical perspective. Now in men's minds that go outside the prophetic parameters written in God's Word, that belief has been a tradition.

 

For example: the Scriptures testify that the Antichrist will sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That temple of God Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2 is not about the spiritual temple concept of Ephesians 2, for the spiritual temple cannot be corrupted by any man. Paul was speaking of a traditional Jewish temple in Jerusalem. That's also where our Lord Jesus pointed to in Matthew 24 about the coming pseudo-Christ (translated as "false Christs" in the KJV, but is the sole Greek word pseudochristos in the manuscripts), and "abomination of desolation".

 

The beast concept in Revelation 13 points to the Daniel metaphors of a beast king and his beast kingdom. And Daniel 2 proclaims a final beast of ten toes made of part iron mixed with clay when Christ will come to smash the beast image upon its feet and the whole comes falling down with His Kingdom then being established forever for His saints. If that applied to a pope during the papal king state back in history, then our Lord Jesus should have already returned, because there is no pope today sitting as king over the nations. Yet the beast written of in Rev.13 we are shown will have power over ALL nations and peoples, and even ALL religions or anything that is worshiped (2 Thess.2 again). No pope has ever fulfilled that, including today.

 

Furthermore, the idea of a pseudochristos that our Lord Jesus forewarned of in Matthew 24:23-26 is about that false one appearing in Jerusalem with others saying he is Christ. The idea is about the Jews proclaiming their Messiah has come. So with that prophetic parameter about the Antichrist, and it's a huge one, the requirement is that Antichrist will play the Jew's Messiah, meaning the Messiah of the orthodox non-Christian Jews'. It's impossible for a pope to fulfill that.

 

 

Edited by davy

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14 hours ago, Placable37 said:

I like the way John by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit avoids using the term antichrist as a title. We don't see it capitalised or read of the Antichrist. Rather it comes across as a description of behaviour.

1Jn 2:22
(22)  Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son.

Well, the 2 John 7 verse does include an article before the word for antichrist. So whether or not antichrist is only meant as an adverb only isn't really supported in the Scripture. It can apply to a singular antichrist, or to many. I don't think it difficult to understand this, since the Greek term for antichrist is from the two Greek words anti and christos. Greek anti can mean instead of and Greek christos always means Christ (singular).

 

Edited by davy

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The scriptures them selves tell us what the term means.

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 
2Jn 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 
2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 
 

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4 hours ago, davy said:

I don't think it's clear at all from the Biblical perspective. Now in men's minds that go outside the prophetic parameters written in God's Word, that belief has been a tradition.

 

For example: the Scriptures testify that the Antichrist will sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped. That temple of God Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2 is not about the spiritual temple concept of Ephesians 2, for the spiritual temple cannot be corrupted by any man. Paul was speaking of a traditional Jewish temple in Jerusalem. That's also where our Lord Jesus pointed to in Matthew 24 about the coming pseudo-Christ (translated as "false Christs" in the KJV, but is the sole Greek word pseudochristos in the manuscripts), and "abomination of desolation".

 

The beast concept in Revelation 13 points to the Daniel metaphors of a beast king and his beast kingdom. And Daniel 2 proclaims a final beast of ten toes made of part iron mixed with clay when Christ will come to smash the beast image upon its feet and the whole comes falling down with His Kingdom then being established forever for His saints. If that applied to a pope during the papal king state back in history, then our Lord Jesus should have already returned, because there is no pope today sitting as king over the nations. Yet the beast written of in Rev.13 we are shown will have power over ALL nations and peoples, and even ALL religions or anything that is worshiped (2 Thess.2 again). No pope has ever fulfilled that, including today.

 

Furthermore, the idea of a pseudochristos that our Lord Jesus forewarned of in Matthew 24:23-26 is about that false one appearing in Jerusalem with others saying he is Christ. The idea is about the Jews proclaiming their Messiah has come. So with that prophetic parameter about the Antichrist, and it's a huge one, the requirement is that Antichrist will play the Jew's Messiah, meaning the Messiah of the orthodox non-Christian Jews'. It's impossible for a pope to fulfill that.

 

 

It does not say in Jerusalem.  The popes use political savy to become a world power.  They use Jesuits as an intelligence agency to fight a continued battle against protestants.  The Catholic church has much power and wealth in the world today and in the past.  The church has over 1 billion followers out of 7 billion people on the earth.

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20 hours ago, CDF47 said:

Satan was cast out before man and this universe were created. 

So you keep asserting, but prior to being cast down Satan accused the brethren before God day and night. How so if they were not yet created?

Rev 12:10
(10)  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 

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9 hours ago, davy said:

Well, the 2 John 7 verse does include an article before the word for antichrist. So whether or not antichrist is only meant as an adverb only isn't really supported in the Scripture. It can apply to a singular antichrist, or to many. I don't think it difficult to understand this, since the Greek term for antichrist is from the two Greek words anti and christos. Greek anti can mean instead of and Greek christos always means Christ (singular).

 

In John's day false teachers who were effectively precursors to the gnostics maintained that Christ assumed only the appearance of a man, and was not really incarnate. John in 2 John 1:7 declares a deceiver such as those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as having human flesh is an antichrist, teaching other than the real Christ, teaching one who could not really have shed his blood.

2Jn 1:7
(7)  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 

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1 hour ago, Placable37 said:

So you keep asserting, but prior to being cast down Satan accused the brethren before God day and night. How so if they were not yet created?

Rev 12:10
(10)  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 

You are now implying that Satan has to go to heaven to accuse us. Is not God everywhere? Do we have to go to heaven to pray to our Father? No, all Satan has to do is open his mouth and accuse away. God hears all.  :RpS_thumbup:

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