Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non-Nicene, non-Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Faber

False rape charges, false murder charges, etc.

Recommended Posts

Deuteronomy 19:16-19

(16) If a malicious witness rises up against a man to accuse him of wrongdoing,

(17) then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days.

(18) The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness and he has accused his brother falsely,

(19) then you shall do to him just as he had intended to do to his brother. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you. (NASB)

 

You falsely accuse someone of murder, then you get the death penalty. You falsely accuse someone of rape, then you get sent to the poky for 20 years or so.

I wonder if this policy was implemented how many false charges would disappear.

 

Share this post


Link to post

How sure are you the rules about witnesses relate to such charges as murder and rape?

 

Thinking particularly of the later crime, might such a practice actually discourage victims coming forward as well - that is not to question the bible text, which clearly has an application in the church :RpS_wink:

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Worldly justice systems are all pretty broken, some are a little better than others in certain areas, but they all have deep flaws.

 

False accusers should receive the punishment that the accused would have gotten. That's justice as scripture teaches.

If our law were the same today I think that would deffinitly make people think twice before trying to destroy someone with such lies. But they'll get what's coming to them when they go before our perfect judge.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
John Gill: it holds good of any other.

https://www.studylight.org/commentar...ronomy-19.html

 

One must prove they came forward intentionally to deceive. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

 

Remember this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

 

I don't remember that case - but then I'm English so i'm not sure it ever reached our news

 

Do you agree with Gill that a woman cannot bear witness to a crime?

"an oath of witness is made by men, and not by women; on which it is observed
F2
that a woman is not fit to bear witness, as it is written:"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

I don't remember that case - but then I'm English so i'm not sure it ever reached our news

 

Do you agree with Gill that a woman cannot bear witness to a crime?

"an oath of witness is made by men, and not by women; on which it is observed
F2
that a woman is not fit to bear witness, as it is written:"

 

If a woman cannot bear witness for credibility sake, then aren't we in trouble because of the testimony of women given for the resurrection?

 

The men seemingly took them seriously. And much emphasis has been placed on their witness. Perhaps this went against the cultural norms, that is, to include women in these matters. However, this just goes to show the positive aspect of Christianity wherever it has blossomed, women's rights have increased.

 

On the topic of rape, what scares me is a woman being raped and me coming to her aid. She opens her eyes and sees me. If as the rapist, I'm in a lot of trouble.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
If a woman cannot bear witness for credibility sake, then aren't we in trouble because of the testimony of women given for the resurrection?

 

The men seemingly took them seriously. And much emphasis has been placed on their witness. Perhaps this went against the cultural norms, that is, to include women in these matters. However, this just goes to show the positive aspect of Christianity wherever it has blossomed, women's rights have increased.

 

Amen!

 

In regards to the OP I am somewhat hesitant to apply the law governing a theocracy directly to our society - i see the application more in the life of the church. I guess I am a bit of a stickler for the three fold division of the law and how we apply the law across those divisions today :RpS_thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post

Unless they are repeated in the New Covenant all the Old Covenant laws have been abrogated.

 

I'm saying though that I agree with the law of punishment when it comes to bearing false witness. The Duke false accusation "rape case" is one such example as to why.

Share this post


Link to post
Unless they are repeated in the New Covenant all the Old Covenant laws have been abrogated.

 

I'm not sure about that - the moral law, for example, transcends the 10 commandments, the ceremonial is fulfilled in Christ, and the social has relevance for the church

 

I'm saying though that I agree with the law of punishment when it comes to bearing false witness. The Duke false accusation "rape case" is one such example as to why.

 

I'm all for protection against false accusations - i'm just not convinced this is it (and I'm deliberately provocative to promotes discussion)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure about that - the moral law, for example, transcends the 10 commandments, the ceremonial is fulfilled in Christ, and the social has relevance for the church

 

Hebrews 8:13 teaches all the Old Covenant laws have been abrogated.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

But what are the old covenant laws? certainly not the moral code that transcends the old covenant.

Share this post


Link to post
What do you mean by "moral code"?

4th Commandment

Old Covenant: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11, NASB)

New Covenant: N/A

 

Just because you say N/A - that does make it so my friend!

 

The sabbath is a pattern set in creation (Gen 2:2)

The sabbath existed before the Old Covenant (Ex 16:23)

The sabbath, as a creation ordinance, was regulated in the law (Ex 20:8-11)

The sabbath existed in the days of Jesus and he exalted it to it's true position (Mark 2:27-28)

The sabbath pattern remains in 'the Lord's day' (Rev 1:10)

The sabbath will be in eternity (Hebrews 4)

 

The sabbath transcends the old covenant - as does the entire moral code!

Share this post


Link to post
What do you mean by "moral code"?

Physical circumcision existed before God's command to Moses about it, but that doesn't mean one must be physically circumcised today.

The Lord Jesus was "born under the Law" (Galatians 4:4) so He would be required to obey the 7th day Sabbath command.

 

Hebrews 4:9 does not refer to the 7th day Sabbath.

See post #6 and post #18

https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/bible-study/bible-translations/32642-hebrews-4-9-rediscovered

 

Colossians 2:16 teaches that the 7th day Sabbath is no longer binding on the Christian.

https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/apologetics-and-theology/50357-christians-are-not-under-the-command-to-obey-the-7th-day-sabbath-colossians-2-16

Share this post


Link to post
What do you mean by "moral code"?

Physical circumcision existed before God's command to Moses about it, but that doesn't mean one must be physically circumcised today.

Circumcision was given to the Abramic covenant - it was not a creation ordinance - so this is not a fair comparison

 

The Lord Jesus was "born under the Law" (Galatians 4:4) so He would be required to obey the 7th day Sabbath command.

As with so many wrong arguements this ignores what was said

 

Hebrews 4:9 does not refer to the 7th day Sabbath.

See post #6 and post #18

Hebrews 4:9 rediscovered - Christforums

Your statements on that thread are based upon your misapprehension regarding the sabbath and its function - having rejected it's nature as transcending the Old Covenant

 

Colossians 2:16 teaches that the 7th day Sabbath is no longer binding on the Christian.

Christians are not under the command to obey the 7th day Sabbath (Colossians 2:16) - Christforums

No it doesn't - it says: 'let no one judge you' it never says 'the sabbath has been done away with' - that is just poor exegesis!

Share this post


Link to post
What do you mean by "moral code"?

I'll go by with how the words are properly defined, while you can stick with your opinions about what you think they should mean.

Share this post


Link to post

Thinking particularly of the later crime, might such a practice actually discourage victims coming forward as well - that is not to question the bible text, which clearly has an application in the church :RpS_wink:

The problem is that we have anti-perjury laws which should make there be consequences for false accusations and lying in court. Victims don't normally tell malicious lies in court, while false witnesses will. The problem is that these never seem to be enforced, and the penalties inflicted are so low that people don't seem to think twice about it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:14 PM, reformed baptist said:

 

Circumcision was given to the Abramic covenant - it was not a creation ordinance - so this is not a fair comparison

 

 

As with so many wrong arguements this ignores what was said

 

 

Your statements on that thread are based upon your misapprehension regarding the sabbath and its function - having rejected it's nature as transcending the Old Covenant

 

 

No it doesn't - it says: 'let no one judge you' it never says 'the sabbath has been done away with' - that is just poor exegesis!

The 7th day Sabbath is no longer binding upon the Christian.

 

1. NIDNTT: Here Paul argues that the Jewish law (the legal demands) were cancelled in the death of Christ (v. 14), and therefore the Jewish food regulations and religious calendar are not binding on the Christian. Included in this ritual was the Jewish sabbath observance. These observances, Paul claims, pointed to a spiritual reality fulfilled in Christ (3:410, Sabbath, W. Stott).

2. EDNT: Questions concerning the Sabbath also play a role in the religious disputes in the church at Colossae (Col 2:16). Like festivals and new moons sabbath observance is only a shadow of what is to come (3:222, sabbaton, W. Beilner).

3. TDNT: With liberation from bondage to the elementary principles of the world the dogmata are also set aside, so that the Christian community is definitely freed from the Sabbath commandment (7:30, sabbaton, Lohse).

 

You can assert "poor exegesis" all you want but I refuse to play make believe with how the words of the Bible are properly defined.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Faber said:

 

You can assert "poor exegesis" all you want but I refuse to play make believe with how the words of the Bible are properly defined.

 

So you keep repeating - but it makes no sense. 

 

The simple reality is I posted a series of statements that show reference to the sabbath out side of the Mosaic Covenant (as well as within it) which you have chosen to ignore - only responding to one - since then you have hidden behind this excuse, 'how the words of the Bible are properly defined.' - yet as far as I can see you haven't 'defined' the meaning of a single word, but have rather just just cited tiny exerts from 3 resources - the simple truth is actually I was wrong to read Colossians 2:16 as saying the sabbath is no longer binding is not exegesis at all, rather it is eisegesis - let me remind you of the text Colossians 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Paul says the sabbath is a shadow of the things to come - he doesn't say it no longer has a purpose. 

 

I understand you will simply dismiss this - you always seem to dismiss everything I have to say - but maybe others will read it and consider it

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

 I cited sources for my assertion while you cited your opinion. That's okay when it comes to things like one's favorite kind of ice-cream but when it comes to properly defining the words of the Bible there comes a time to put such childish approaches away (cf. 1 Corinthians 13:11).

 

The purpose of the Sabbath as well as food, drink, festival and new moon is to point to the "substance" which is Christ. If the 7th day Sabbath is still binding on the Christian then so are the others mentioned.

 

Better rethink your position because it is sinking quite fast.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Faber said:

 I cited sources for my assertion while you cited your opinion. That's okay when it comes to things like one's favorite kind of ice-cream but when it comes to properly defining the words of the Bible there comes a time to put such childish approaches away (cf. 1 Corinthians 13:11).

You haven't 'defined' any words, and you continue to neglect the rest of my argument. 

 

4 hours ago, Faber said:

The purpose of the Sabbath as well as food, drink, festival and new moon is to point to the "substance" which is Christ. If the 7th day Sabbath is still binding on the Christian then so are the others mentioned.

Two thing to point out - again you are straw-manning my argument, where I have said "the 7th day Sabbath is still binding" - let's go back and revisit I did actually say shall we: 

On 4/25/2018 at 10:04 PM, reformed baptist said:

The sabbath is a pattern set in creation (Gen 2:2)

The sabbath existed before the Old Covenant (Ex 16:23)

The sabbath, as a creation ordinance, was regulated in the law (Ex 20:8-11)

The sabbath existed in the days of Jesus and he exalted it to it's true position (Mark 2:27-28)

The sabbath pattern remains in 'the Lord's day' (Rev 1:10)

The sabbath will be in eternity (Hebrews 4)

 

The sabbath transcends the old covenant - as does the entire moral code!

I said 'the sabbath' I never referred to a specifically or exclusively to "the 7th day Sabbath" - indeed I clearly asserted that, "the sabbath pattern remains in the Lord's day."

 

4 hours ago, Faber said:

Better rethink your position because it is sinking quite fast.

I don't see why, clearly you have been trying to tear down a straw-man rather then interact meaningfully with my argument. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I already cited three different sources which affirm what I am asserting.

 

I wrote that Christians are not under the command to obey the 7th day Sabbath. You disagreed which is ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Topics

    • Top Obama White House Lawyer Made False Statements To DOJ About Manafort-Related Work

      By Chuck Ross - The Justice Department is alleging that the former Obama White House general counsel made ‘false and misleading’ statements regarding consulting work done for Ukraine. Greg Craig was lead partner for the law firm Skadden Arps on its Ukraine work, which was done in partnership with Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman.  Skadden Arps agreed Thursday to settle with the Justice Department by registering as a foreign agent of Ukraine and paying a $4.6 million fine. Craig’s fate remains uncertain. The former general counsel for President Obama made “false and misleading statements” to the Justice Department regarding work he did for the Ukrainian government that has come under scrutiny in the special counsel’s probe. Greg Craig’s alleged false statements were revealed in a settlement announced Thursday by the Justice Department. The agency announced it was settling with Craig’s former firm, Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, which worked with former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort on behalf of Ukraine beginning in 2012. Skadden Arps agreed to register retroactively with the Justice Department as a foreign agent of Ukraine and to pay a $4.6 million fine, the same amount that the firm was paid for its consulting work. Craig, who left Skadden Arps in April 2018, is not identified by name in the Justice Department announcement, but he has previously been identified as the lead Skadden Arps partner who worked on its Ukraine account. Other clues from the Justice Department settlement point to Craig as the lead partner referenced in case. As part of the settlement, Skadden Arps acknowledged that it acted on behalf of the Ukrainian government “by contributing to a public relations campaign directed at select members of the U.S. news media in 2012.” Craig and others at Skadden Arps helped promote a report that raised questions about Yulia Tymoshenko, a former Ukrainian prime minister who was seen as a foe to Viktor Yanukovych, who served as prime minister through 2014. The Justice Department says that it contacted Skadden Arps in 2012 and 2013 about registering under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) after the law firm released a report that defended Tymoshenko’s imprisonment. But the firm ended up not registering under FARA based on false assurances provided by Skadden Arps’ partner. “A partner then at Skadden made false and misleading statements to the FARA [Foreign Agents Registration Act] Unit, which led it to conclude in 2013 that the firm was not obligated to register under FARA,” the Justice Department said. “The facts, when uncovered, showed that Skadden was indeed required to register in 2012, and, under the Agreement, it will do so retroactively.” The Skadden Arps media outreach centered mostly on a report about Tymoshenko that was finalized in December 2012. According to the Justice Department, the Skadden Arps lead partner, seemingly Craig, contacted a major national newspaper on Dec. 12, 2012, to provide a preview of the report as well as a quotation. The news outlet appears to be The New York Times, which quoted Craig in an article laying out Skadden Arps’ report regarding Tymoshenko. The Skadden Arps report determined that some of Tymoshenko’s legal rights were violated during her trial in Ukraine. But it ultimately sided against Tymoshenko and with Yanukovych’s administration. Craig, who contacted the newspaper, is quoted in the article, saying that “We leave to others the question of whether this prosecution was politically motivated.” “Our assignment was to look at the evidence in the record and determine whether the trial was fair.” According to the Justice Department, the Skadden Arps partner provided misleading statements about the dissemination of the Tymoshenko report and the interactions with the media. “In both written and oral responses to the FARA Unit between February 6, 2013, and October 11, 2013, Skadden, in reliance on the lead partner, made false and misleading statements including, among other things, that Skadden provided a copy of the Report only in response to requests from the media and spoke to the media to correct misinformation about the report that the media was already reporting,” the Justice Department said. The agency also asserted that the Skadden Arps’ partner’s “pre-release outreach” to the journalist “was consistent with Ukraine’s media strategy for the Report.” That strategy involved “leaking the Report prior to its official release so as to ‘effectively set the agenda for subsequent coverage,’” according to the DOJ. It is unclear whether Craig faces any legal jeopardy in the case or whether he concurs with the Skadden Arps settlement. The government’s agreement with Skadden Arps explicitly states that the settlement does not protect “current or former partners” from criminal liability. CNN reported on Sept. 15, 2018, that the Justice Department was weighing charges against Craig, who left the Obama White House on Jan. 3, 2010. An attorney for Craig responded, “no comment” to an inquiry by TheDCNF. The settlement closes one chapter of the ongoing saga over the Ukraine lobbying effort. Two other lobbying firms, the Podesta Group and Mercury Public Affairs, are also reportedly the subject of an investigation into the Ukraine work. Manafort has pleaded guilty in the special counsel’s investigation to working as an unregistered foreign agent for Ukraine. He was convicted on Aug. 21, 2018, for money laundering and fraud related to money he made on the Ukrainian consulting gig. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Top Obama White House Lawyer Made False Statements To DOJ About Manafort-Related Work is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

    • SB-1424 Internet: social media: false information: strategic plan. (California)

      How is this not a 1st Amendment violation?     Source: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180SB1424

      in Christian Current Events

    • Eight Symptoms of False Doctrine

      by J. C. Ryle 1. There is an undeniable zeal in some teachers of error–their “earnestness” makes many people think they must be right. 2. There is a great appearance of learning and theological knowledge–many think that such clever and intellectual men must surely be safe to listen to. 3. There is a general tendency to completely free and independent thinking today–many like to prove their independence of judgment by believing the newest ideas, which are nothing but novelties. 4. There is a wide-spread desire to appear kind, loving, and open-minded–many seem half-ashamed to say that anybody can be wrong or is a false teacher. 5. There is always a portion of half-truth taught by modern false teachers–they are always using scriptural words and phrases, but with unscriptural meaning. 6. There is a public craving for a more sensational and entertaining worship–people are impatient with the more inward and invisible work of God within the hearts of men. 7. There is a superficial readiness all around to believe anyone who talks cleverly, lovingly and earnestly, forgetting that Satan often masquerades himself as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14). 8. There is a wide-spread ignorance among professing Christians–every heretic who speaks well is surely believed, and anyone who doubts him is called narrow-minded and unloving. All these are especially symptoms of our times. I challenge any honest and observant person to deny them. These tend to make the assaults of false doctrine today especially dangerous and make it even more important to say loudly, “Do not be carried away with strange doctrine!”   View the full article

      in Soteriology and Reformation Theology

    • US Nemesis Huawei Faces Scrutiny After Poland Charges One Of Its Execs With Espionage

      By Chris White - Polish authorities arrested and charged a Huawei executive and former Polish government official with espionage, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday. The arrest deals a brutal blow to the Chinese company. News of the arrest comes amid speculation that Beijing is using Huawei to spy on U.S. companies as they build out the world’s next generation of mobile-telecom networks. The executive, whose name is blocked from public, pleaded not guilty to a crime that carries up to a decade in prison. This is the second time in two months that Huawei has dealt with executives being charged with crimes in foreign nations. Canada detained the company’s chief financial officer in early December on charges related to Iranian sanctions. “Huawei is aware of the situation, and we are looking into it,” a spokesman for the company told reporters. Huawei has repeatedly dismissed claims that it is a Beijing tool, with company officials noting that it is an independent entity and has never been implicated in any spy rings – until now. Poland’s counterintelligence agency searched the local Huawei office and the home of the Chinese national, Poland’s state-owned broadcaster reported Friday. The executive was identified as a graduate of one of China’s top intelligence schools, WSJ noted. The arrest is bound to increase speculation that the mysterious company is acting on behalf of China. Canadian authorities, at the behest of U.S. officials, arrested Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou on charges she lied to banks about Huawei’s business in Iran. She denies charges of violating U.S. sanctions. Meanwhile, tensions are at an all-time high between the U.S. and China. This report came a month after U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted about the Chinese tariff dispute in an attempt to calm down the markets after the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 800 points on Tuesday. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] US Nemesis Huawei Faces Scrutiny After Poland Charges One Of Its Execs With Espionage is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

    • Fusion GPS-Linked Group Worked With Tech Company Tied To Russian ‘False Flag’ Operation

      By Chuck Ross - A non-profit group linked to Fusion GPS has ties to a cybersecurity firm recently implicated in a self-described “false flag” operation in the Alabama Senate race. The Democracy Integrity Project, which works with Fusion GPS and dossier author Christopher Steele, partnered before the 2018 midterms with New Knowledge, an Austin-based firm that has been tied to an operation that created fake Russian bots in Alabama’s December 2017 special election. New Knowledge recently produced a report for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and TDIP’s founder was in contact with two Democrats from the committee.  A nonprofit group linked to Fusion GPS and partially funded by George Soros worked in recent months with a technology company implicated in a scheme to use fake Russian bots during Alabama’s special Senate election. The groups, the Democracy Integrity Project (TDIP) and New Knowledge, partnered before the 2018 mid-terms to track alleged Russian disinformation networks, a website the organizations collaboratively run shows. Both organizations have links to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI), which is investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election, as well as possible Trump campaign collusion. SSCI provided New Knowledge with data from various social media companies as part of an investigation into Russian disinformation networks, according to a report New Knowledge released Dec. 17. Two days later, news broke that New Knowledge’s chief executive was involved in a self-described “false flag” operation in the special election for a Senate seat in Alabama, as was another staffer who was the lead author on the Senate report. TDIP is also linked to the Senate Intelligence panel. Its founder, Daniel J. Jones, was previously a staffer for Democrats on SSCI. He was also in contact in early 2017 with Virginia Sen. Mark Warner, the Democratic vice chairman of SSCI. As part of TDIP’s own Trump-Russia investigation, the group hired Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele, the author of the anti-Trump dossier. The extent of Warner’s contacts with Jones remain unclear. The collaboration between TDIP and New Knowledge, which has not been previously reported, involved a dashboard set up at the site, Disinfo2018.com, which tracked “social media disinformation networks — to include suspected foreign state-actors — conducting information warfare against the American public prior to the 2018 U.S. midterm elections.” The project appears similar to Hamilton 68, a dashboard operated by the Alliance for Security Democracy. Jonathon Morgan, the founder of New Knowledge, helped create Hamilton 68 and has appeared frequently in the media to discuss Russia’s disinformation efforts. In an interview with BBC, Morgan claimed Russians were behind #ReleaseTheMemo, the hashtag used to call for the release of a memo from House Intel Republicans that questioned the FBI’s reliance on the unverified Steele dossier to obtain surveillance warrants against former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. But New Knowledge and Morgan are now known for their tactics during the December 2017 Alabama special election. The New York Times published a damning exposé Dec. 19, 2018, showing New Knowledge operatives targeted conservative Alabamans with fake Facebook pages intended to sow doubt about Roy Moore, the controversial Republican candidate. The operatives also created thousands of fake Russian Twitter accounts set to follow Moore. The effect was that numerous news outlets reported Moore was being supported by a Russian disinformation network. New Knowledge has come under heavy criticism following the report, largely because the firm’s tactics in Alabama so closely mirrored the Russian efforts they say they oppose. Morgan, a former State Department adviser, said the Alabama project was merely an experiment that had no impact on the special election, which was won by Democrat Doug Jones. The Washington Post reported New Knowledge authored a document describing the Alabama false flag operation, but Morgan has denied that claim and said he was unaware of most of the activities detailed in it. New Knowledge’s Senate report on Russian disinformation networks makes clear its investigation was undertaken at the request of SSCI. But an SSCI official told TheDCNF the committee did not pay New Knowledge and TDIP has never been hired for any work. The official also noted that SSCI does not necessarily endorse New Knowledge’s findings. TDIP has maintained a lower profile than New Knowledge. Most of what’s known about the group has been revealed only through Adam Waldman, an attorney who had contact with the organization in 2017. Information that Jones, the TDIP founder, provided to the FBI was also released in an April 27, 2018, House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence report. Jones, who registered TDIP on Jan. 31, 2017, told the FBI in late March 2017 his organization had hired Fusion GPS and Steele, a former MI6 officer, to continue investigations into Russian meddling in the U.S. elections that began with funding from the DNC and Clinton campaign. Jones also told the FBI that the project had received $50 million in funding from between seven and 10 wealthy liberal donors. IRS records suggest that TDIP did not receive all of that funding at once. Information from the nonprofit’s tax filings show that the group received $9 million in 2017. Around the same time as his meeting with the FBI, Jones reached out to Waldman, an attorney with a myriad of links to players in the Russia saga. Waldman represented Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska and has apparent links to Steele. Waldman told TheDCNF Jones said to him that Fusion GPS was involved with TDIP. He also said Jones claimed Soros had provided funding for TDIP’s anti-Trump operation. Waldman also provided text messages from March 17, 2017, in which Jones said TDIP helped plant anti-Trump news stories. “Our team helped with this,” Jones wrote to Waldman, linking to a Reuters article about Russian investment in Florida properties owned by President Donald Trump. Waldman also exchanged text messages with Warner that suggested the Virginia Democrat was in close contact with Jones. In an April 25, 2017, text message to Warner, Waldman said Steele had told him “Dan Jones is coming to see you.” The interactions between Warner, Waldman, Steele and Jones remain one of the enduring puzzles of SSCI’s Russia probe. The committee has refused to discuss the matter. But Warner was not Jones’s only Democratic contact on SSCI. According to New Yorker article published Oct. 15, 2018, an unidentified Democratic senator other than Warner contacted Jones in early 2017 to review data related to Alfa Bank, a Russian bank whose computer servers allegedly had back-channel contacts with Trump Organization computers. The Alfa Bank connection to Trump was first reported by Slate on Oct. 31, 2016. Alfa Bank’s founders are also accused of having cozy relations with the Kremlin in Steele’s dossier. The claims of illicit contact between Alfa Bank and Trump Organization have remain unverified, with some computer experts doubting the theory. Neither TDIP nor New Knowledge responded to multiple requests for comment. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Fusion GPS-Linked Group Worked With Tech Company Tied To Russian ‘False Flag’ Operation is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.