Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non-Nicene, non-Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Sign in to follow this  
ConfessionalLutheran

Murder in Las Vegas

Recommended Posts

I suppose everybody by now knows what happened. Stephen Paddock got an arsenal of weaponry together and opened fire on a crowd peaceably assembled for a country music festival. 58 people are dead and 500 injured as a result. I would suggest that we pray for the families of everybody involved. Here are some links to the story: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooter/index.html, http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/las-vegas-shooting-attack-kills-at-least-58-more-than-500-people-injured/ar-AAsM6kd?OCID=ansmsnnews11, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41466116, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/02/us/mandalay-bay-vegas-shooting.html. We truly live in a fallen world.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Other than your meme on Facebook this is actually the first I read of it.

 

Thanks for the source, at least I now know what the commotion is all about.

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Other than your meme on Facebook this is actually the first I read of it.

 

Thanks for the source, at least I know now what the commotion is all about.

 

God bless,

William

 

You're welcome, William. I do regret letting my emotion extend to the meme, but only because it upset a dear friend of mine. I stand by what I said, though. Only somebody who was held by Satan in a tight grip could do what that guy did. He killed himself and saved taxpayers a lot of money and years in incarceration. I don't condone what he did to the others and I grieve that he killed himself, but only somebody possessed could do something like that.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

You're welcome, William. I do regret letting my emotion extend to the meme, but only because it upset a dear friend of mine. I stand by what I said, though. Only somebody who was held by Satan in a tight grip could do what that guy did. He killed himself and saved taxpayers a lot of money and years in incarceration. I don't condone what he did to the others and I grieve that he killed himself, but only somebody possessed could do something like that.

 

Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, that is, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

 

An excellent analogy. Thank you for that food for thought ( of course I believe in predestination, by the way! :) ).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Were the authorities ever able to locate the person (people?) who went around the concert telling (yelling?) that people were going to die before the massacre began?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
22154164_1177021525765216_5809638274643587197_n.thumb.jpg.f197e87e99338965fb8cedbd29c18362.jpg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Conservative publications are going to town on memes today:

 

22089112_1176523929148309_1923747947652620761_n.jpg.c72c1ebdb6045d3a478f2d209e6db4ae.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Conservative publications are going to town on memes today:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"472","width":"720","data-attachmentid":51406}[/ATTACH]

 

Amen and amen. They did their duty. What do so many of these overpaid athletes actually do other than deliver an arguably decent show on the football field? Take the knee during the anthem? Offend the people who are pouring money into their League? At least the police are useful to society.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

This act is terrible and horrifying. Another case for gun law. Still if you have millions you get anything you want

 

While I was watching the news coverage I could not help wondering when I saw all the people before the shooting holding up cell phone lights singing God bless America in the city dubbed as sin city.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

Well, here's another possibility. Lemme entertain the doctrine of Predestination and the T in TULIP.

 

As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish. As a Lutheran, and an orthodox one, I assume you believe in predestination. The only differences between our doctrine is that the Presbyterian's double predestination addresses the unbiblical negative schema. A lot of people misunderstand double predestination and think it means that God is the author of sin thereby actively making man sin (negative) when they oppose double predestination. Contrary to that double predestination teaches that God positively and monergistically intervenes in the lives of the Elect. Lutherans stop there. Presbyterians teach the positive of passing over the non elect thereby addressing the negative which is God actively causing others to sin. Here's an analogy:

 

You may hold a newborn child in your arms. And the child may get a glimpse of your shiny watch and reach for it. You say no to the child and the child begins to cry. You console the child, but the child reaches for the watch again, and this time after you say no the child throws a tantrum. If it weren't for you restraining/holding the child that child if he was a man would be standing over your dead body by now with a shiny new watch. If that child had the faculties or abilities of a grown man he would acquire that watch by violence or any other means necessary to satisfy his desires/wants. This is the depraved nature of mankind, and without the grace of God restraining man then man is unchecked or free to do as he wills. He is by nature depraved ever since birth. Sometimes some are more evil than others but nonetheless they are evil. This is not to say all men are evil as can be, but this is to say that the man that took the lives of 50+ others is held accountable even if passed over by God. He was a depraved man by nature and held accountable for sins apart from Christ.

 

I believe God passing over some hardens them, and the more distant God is the more hardened some become. My only point in bringing this up is that I believe the Devil sometimes is blamed for our depraved nature. That man will be held accountable and responsible for his actions. No one has the right to demand or object to God giving grace to some and withholding from others. Whether God passed over leaving a man to himself or not, does not place the blame of sinful actions upon the shoulders of God.

 

Only faith/belief in Christ does that. That is, our sins are put on Christ by which He was crucified for. For your friend to claim that this was a child of God goes against what Scripture conveys. We are all God's creation, all of mankind, although, only those who believe are adopted in the family of God and have the right to call themselves children of the most high. His children as in the analogy are held and restrained in Grace, and they're chastised for their sins.

 

If God was unloving He would not restrain us, like society does to that child, or like that man. Instead society excuses the child and man as the comments attempt to do under the meme. And their sinful actions are defended and justified from the perspective of worldly psychology etc. Instead of Justice we're blood guilted into feeling remorse, that is, what we should not feel for the justice done to the most heinous criminals for their sinful acts. What some are trying to do, lay the responsibility or accountability on God or the Church, and even Devil, only rightly can be laid upon that individual man. Lest society wants to pay the penalty for the consequences of that man. A position only Christ can.

 

God bless,

William

 

Well thought out.

Share this post


Link to post
Were the authorities ever able to locate the person (people?) who went around the concert telling (yelling?) that people were going to die before the massacre began?

 

I don't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
As you know I believe in the teaching of Double Predestination. That is, God intervenes in the lives of the Elect (positive) and passes over others (positive). Those He passes over left to themselves will perish

 

I have never heard the term double predestination before. How does God passing over the majority of his creation or the majority of the people that ever lived. How does that work with 2 Peter 3:9

 

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

If God is not wanting any to parish, but that all come to repentance. Why would he pass over anyone

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

I have never heard the term double predestination before. How does God passing over the majority of his creation or the majority of the people that ever lived. How does that work with 2 Peter 3:9

 

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

If God is not wanting any to parish, but that all come to repentance. Why would he pass over anyone

  • 2 Peter 3:8-9 8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, might be called the Arminian pillar texts concerning the universal saving will of God.

 

We must distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what He actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will. The "beloved" and "you" in 2 Peter 3:9 ("the Lord is longsuffering toward you, not wishing any to perish") refers not to every person in the world but to "you" the Elect.

 

Try reading: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ng-2-peter-3-9

 

God bless,

William

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Topics

    • Wife Of Green Beret Charged With Murder: Our Enemies Are Watching

      By Hanna Bogorowski - The wife of a former U.S. Army Green Beret charged with the premeditated murder of an Afghan while serving overseas in 2010 issued a staunch defense of her husband on Wednesday as his case garners national attention, warning the U.S. that “our enemy” is watching the situation unfold. Julie Golsteyn defended her husband, U.S. Army Major Matt Golsteyn, on CNN’s Newsroom with Brooke Baldwin alongside her husband’s attorney, Phillip Stackhouse, saying her husband did “nothing wrong” and did not break any rules or laws of combat. The case surrounds Matt Golsteyn, who is facing murder charges for killing a suspected Taliban bomb-maker after he was forced to release him from captivity under the rules of engagement when the suspect wouldn’t cooperate with interrogators in Afghanistan in 2010. “I know that there are concerns depending on how this goes, how this might look, what message this may send to the 14,000 American forces still in Afghanistan,” host Brooke Baldwin said. “I want to hear what you want from this president, what you think justice will look like.” “I would like for my husband to have the first Christmas in the last eight without the Army, this cloud hanging over his head, when he did nothing wrong,” Golsteyn responded. “I would like for us to be able to enjoy the holidays with our newborn.” “And by the way, it’s not only how it looks to our men and women over there. Our enemy is also seeing this,” she said. A 2016 interview with Fox News in which Golsteyn re-upped the details of the murder triggered a new investigation and is the reason he’s currently facing murder charges. The former U.S. Army Major and his men believed the suspected bomber was responsible for the deaths of multiple U.S. Marines killed the day prior in 2010 and that a local tribal elder had identified him as a known militant. Golsteyn admitted in a 2011 interview with the CIA that he and his men conspired to kill the man. Golsteyn’s conduct and subsequent investigation resulted in administrative action recommending his discharge, but no criminal charges. President Donald Trump tweeted Sunday that he’d be reviewing the case of the “U.S. Military hero.” Baldwin asked Stackhouse whether Golsteyn knew he was breaking killing the suspected Taliban bomb-maker was against the rules of engagement. “He was aware of the rules of engagement. He exercised his discretion as a ground commander in Afghanistan,” the attorney responded, warning Baldwin against assuming that what the Green Beret did was illegal. Golsteyn’s wife did not respond as kindly. “[…] you are mischaracterizing the situation by saying that he did break the rules of engagement,” she said. “The Army’s own panel found in 2015 that he, in fact, did not break the rules of engagement.” ” I’m worried for [Matt] in some sense because [the charges] wrong. But I’m not worried, because he didn’t do anything wrong,” Julie added. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Wife Of Green Beret Charged With Murder: Our Enemies Are Watching is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust - Conservative News Website for U.S. News, Political Cartoons and more. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

    • Man Falsely Convicted of Murder Is Set Free after 27 Years, Says, 'I Just Kept Believing in God'

      For years a Baltimore man was behind bars for a murder he didn’t commit, but now, 27 years later, Clarence Shipley has been released. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • Green Beret Charged With Alleged Murder Of Taliban Bomb Maker

      By Grace Carr - The U.S. Army charged a Fort Bragg Green Beret with allegedly murdering a man who he suspected was a bomb maker for the Taliban. Special Forces Maj. Matthew Golsteyn was charged with allegedly shooting and killing the suspected bomb maker in 2010, Task and Purpose reported Thursday. He was deployed with the 3rd Special Forces Group at the time of the alleged incident, according to Army Times. Golsteyn has been charged with pre-meditated murder and could face the death penalty, Golsteyn’s attorney, Phillip Stackhouse, told the Times. “Maj. Golsteyn is being charged with the murder of an Afghan male during his 2010 deployment to Afghanistan,” U.S. Army Special Operations Command spokesman Lt. Col. Loren Bymer told Task and Purpose Thursday. Golsteyn is a “humble servant-leader who saved countless lives, both American and Afghan, and has been recognized repeatedly for his valorous actions,” Stackhouse said of his client, the Times reported. The Army revoked Golsteyn’s Silver Star in February 2015, pending an investigation into whether he killed the alleged Taliban bomb maker while serving in Afghanistan, according to The Fayetteville Observer. The Army investigated the alleged incident but initially found no evidence proving Golsteyn had committed a crime. He was placed on “excess leave” during the investigation, and reinstated for active duty service after a board of inquiry June 2015 recommendation, Task and Purpose reported. The investigation was re-opened after Golsteyn admitting he killed the man during an October 2016 interview with Fox News’s Bret Baier. Golsteyn said he killed the suspected Taliban operative because he was afraid the man would kill the tribal leader who had disclosed his identity to Golsteyn, Task and Purpose reported. The man had allegedly built a bomb that killed two Marines, Army Times reported. Golsteyn first admitted to the killing during a CIA interview, according to the Times. “It is an inevitable outcome that people who are cooperating with the coalition forces, when identified, will suffer some terrible torture or be killed,” Golsteyn said, Task and Purpose reported. The U.S. Army did not immediately respond to The Daily Caller News Foundation’s request for comment. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Green Beret Charged With Alleged Murder Of Taliban Bomb Maker is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

    • Detroit Pastor Charged with the Murder of a Transgender Woman

      A Detroit pastor was charged with the murder of a transgender woman which authorities are calling a hate crime. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • Immigrant Arrested For Murder Was Previously Deported At Least Eight Times

      By Jason Hopkins - An illegal immigrant arrested for allegedly shooting and killing a co-worker in Oregon is discovered to have been deported at least eight times. Deciderio Vargas-Ortiz, 52, was arrested for the alleged murder of Renee Luis-Antonio. The two worked together at a creamery in Milton-Freewater, Oregon — a town in the northeastern part of the state — and reportedly had a long-running dispute. Investigators believe Luis-Antonio was shot on Nov. 26 while riding a tractor. Officer were able to locate and arrest Vargas-Ortiz a day after the alleged shooting. The suspect had fled to Washington state, where a SWAT team apprehended him in a local hotel. As it turns out, not only was Vargas-Ortiz residing it the U.S. illegally, but he had already been deported back to his home country of Mexico at least eight times, according to a statement from an immigration spokeswoman. The suspect had also been operating under an alias — his real name being Antonio Vasquez Vargas. “ICE lodged a detainer with the Benton County Jail on Antonio Vasquez Vargas, aka Deciderio Vargas Ortiz, a citizen of Mexico illegally present in the U.S., after he was arrested on local charges,” Tanya Roman, a public affairs officer for the U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement, said in a statement to The Daily Caller News Foundation. “ICE has removed him from the U.S. on at least eight prior occasions. On March 15, 2004, Vasquez was convicted in U.S. District Court for violation of 8 USC 1326(B)(2) Aggravated Felon Re-Entry After Deportation and was sentenced to 39-months incarceration,” Roman continued. Vasquez Vargas is currently being held in the Umatilla County Sheriff’s Office. The jail’s website reports he is being charged with one count of murder, one count of felon in possession of a weapon, and once count of INS detainer. His bail has been set at $5,000,000. Content created by The Daily Caller News Foundation is available without charge to any eligible news publisher that can provide a large audience. For licensing opportunities of our original content, please contact [email protected] Immigrant Arrested For Murder Was Previously Deported At Least Eight Times is original content from Conservative Daily News - Where Americans go for news, current events and commentary they can trust. View the original full article

      in Political Conservative News

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.