Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non-Nicene, non-Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Sign in to follow this  
James Honigman

911 in the HOLY BIBLE

Recommended Posts

In my opinion, Isaiah 33:17 is the destruction of the World Trade Center in the latter days of mankind, as it says, "We will see the king in his beauty", meaning the return of Y'shua. It mentions "the towers" in plural and asks where "the scribe" and" the receiver" are. This is the "counter" and the "weigher" in the original Hebrew manuscripts. It even asks, "Where is he that counted the towers?" This is asking where is he who celebrated the disaster. It took us a decade to find Osama Bin Laden. As the verse also states, we have been "meditating" (pondering upon) TERROR ever since. Just my opinion, and any thoughts are appreciated. James.

Share this post


Link to post

It seems kind of a stretch to see this as a prophecy of the destruction of the World Trade Center. All prophecies usually relate to Israel in some way and there are a lot of other towers.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks again, Theophilus. By the way, are you and I the only ones interested in this subject? You are the only response I got, and in my opinion, this is an important prophecy. To answer your post, the prophecy is a dual prophecy, which the LORD used throughout the Bible. It definitely concerns Israel as it speaks to the siege of Jerusalem by the King of Assyria, King Sennacherib, Ye that are near, and also to us, Ye that are far off. As seen from Jerusalem, the USA is very far off, and in time we are certainly far off. Our Heavenly Father, knowing the end from the beginning, is also warning the children of this generation that we are being besieged. Isaiah 33:17 &18 are all about commerce being done, for it involves the destruction of the World Trade Center. As verse 18 implies, we have been pondering about terrorists and terrorism ever since 911. Thine heart shall meditate terror. Just my opinion Theo. Thanks again for your help. James.

Share this post


Link to post
Thanks again, Theophilus. By the way, are you and I the only ones interested in this subject? You are the only response I got, and in my opinion, this is an important prophecy. To answer your post, the prophecy is a dual prophecy, which the LORD used throughout the Bible. It definitely concerns Israel as it speaks to the siege of Jerusalem by the King of Assyria, King Sennacherib, Ye that are near, and also to us, Ye that are far off. As seen from Jerusalem, the USA is very far off, and in time we are certainly far off. Our Heavenly Father, knowing the end from the beginning, is also warning the children of this generation that we are being besieged. Isaiah 33:17 &18 are all about commerce being done, for it involves the destruction of the World Trade Center. As verse 18 implies, we have been pondering about terrorists and terrorism ever since 911. Thine heart shall meditate terror. Just my opinion Theo. Thanks again for your help. James.

 

You are not the only ones interested. I read your post yesterday. The Matthew Henry commentary says this relates to the Assyrians based on the content of the verses relating to Assyria. You have an interesting take on it though because that did occur on 9/11.

Share this post


Link to post
To answer your post, the prophecy is a dual prophecy, which the LORD used throughout the Bible.

 

Where does scripture teach this "dual Prophesy" notion?

I've seen it claimed beofre but no one has been able to show me where scripture teaches such a thing... and why only dual? why not triple, quadruple, etc...?

 

I understand Type and Shadow, but that is quite different from saying dual fulfillment.

 

A type is not a fulfillment at all...

 

It definitely concerns Israel as it speaks to the siege of Jerusalem by the King of Assyria, King Sennacherib, Ye that are near, and also to us, Ye that are far off. As seen from Jerusalem, the USA is very far off, and in time we are certainly far off.

 

Here's another concept I have touble understanding the reasoning behind.

 

For years I've been told that the terms "near and far off" in scripture relate only to How God views time, and are never meant to be discerned by how man views time.. (otherwise everyone would be full preterist), no?

 

So, what is keeping you (or me) from applying this notion of "ye that are far off" to some future to us generation?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Where does scripture teach this "dual Prophesy" notion?

 

Isaiah 7:14 is definitely a dual prophecy. If you read the whole chapter you will find that it was given as a sight to King Ahaz that God would keep his promise. It meant that a woman who was a virgin at the time the prophecy was made would soon bear a child. But it is quoted in the New Testament as a prophecy that the Messiah would be born of a virgin. Here is a more detailed explanation of this. https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/the-whole-truth/

Share this post


Link to post
Where does scripture teach this "dual Prophesy" notion?

I've seen it claimed beofre but no one has been able to show me where scripture teaches such a thing

How about Mt 2:15 quoting Ho 11:1? This was fulfilled twice, Israel being called out was the first and Christ being called out was the second.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

How about Mt 2:15 quoting Ho 11:1? This was fulfilled twice, Israel being called out was the first and Christ being called out was the second.

 

Right... OT Type and Shadow / NT Messianic Fulfimment

 

In fact, while we can learn much about the apostles and Christ's "Messiah Hermeneutic" by tracking their citation of O.T. passages and studying their method of application, we are at a loss to extend their system of interpretation in areas where the apostles or Christ did not speak. When reading through the Old Testament books, we 21st century folk may be able to come up with some general applications of typology that seem to make good sense in light of the apostles' pattern. However, without any direct citation and application from the apostles on a given O.T. passage we cannot dogmatically assert that we have rightly used the Messiah Hermeneutic.

 

I can't help but wonder, Is that your position concerning ALL prophecy though? Can I assume from what youve said so far, that you believe there will be a future redemption of man through some future to us, post cross sacrifice? In other words, your thought here opens the door for a future Calvary. Perhaps the establishment of yet a new Church. yet Another virgin birth...

 

What current events look to be the GREATER fulfillment of the calvary event in our bibles? The WTC boming of thousands of innocents? Columbine? Sandy Hook?, Las Vegas Massacre? The little Church in Texas a couple days ago? Some other death of innocent event coming soon? Abortion? Something has to fit...rule of multiple fulfillments.

 

Next, let's look at the virgin birth. Perhaps cloning is the greater fulfillment in our times of that shadow provided by Mary and Jesus? Something has to fit...rule of multiple fulfillments.

 

Christ's ministry of miraculous cures. No doubt that modern medicine is the GREATER messiah of our times for which Jesus was a mere shadow. Modern medicine has brought cures for ailments and diseases on a massive scale NEVER before done by anyone including Jesus. Surely Christ's healings were just a type for a far greater healing of the sick in our times, right?

Share this post


Link to post
I can't help but wonder, Is that your position concerning ALL prophecy though? Can I assume from what youve said so far, that you believe there will be a future redemption of man through some future to us, post cross sacrifice? In other words, your thought here opens the door for a future Calvary. Perhaps the establishment of yet a new Church. yet Another virgin birth...

No. I don't know where you got all that. You asked a simple question about where in scripture there is the idea of dual fulfillment. I gave one example of such a place. That's all I said.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Topics

    • Harvest Bible Chapel Announces that Lead Pastor James MacDonald Will Take an 'Indefinite Sabbatical'

      Less than a week after dropping their lawsuit against three critics of the church, Harvest Bible Chapel has announced that its founder and lead pastor James MacDonald will be taking an “indefinite sabbatical.” View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • New Florida Bill Will Require Public High Schools to Offer Classes on the Bible and Religion

      Florida state legislators recently introduced a new bill that will require the school districts to offer classes on the Bible in public high schools. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • How to Teach Your Teen to Study the Bible

      Parents contact me frequently to ask what devotionals or young adult Bible studies I would recommend they do with their teens. As our kids enter the teen years, our responsibility as parents is to help them develop good habits of interacting with the Bible. Finding an approach that is age-appropriate and manageable is key. My encouragement is to simply read the Bible with your teen in a way that models and trains Bible literacy—no special teen resource required. Your teen will be exposed to devotional content and topical studies at every turn, and they likely don’t need a resource targeted specifically at their demographic. Most teens are missing basic tools to help them read and learn the Bible on their own. By guiding them in some basic study methods, you can position them to use devotional and topical material with far better discernment and far greater benefit, as those types of resources assume a firsthand knowledge of the Bible many teens have not yet developed. Here is a simple approach that you can adapt to fit the age of your teen. 1. Pick a book of the Bible to read and discuss together. If you have never studied together, start with a shorter book like Jonah or James. If at all possible, tackle longer books like Genesis or Hebrews while you still have the opportunity to guide and shape their study method. The goal is to give your teen exposure to the value of studying an entire book from start to finish, as opposed to only studying topically or devotionally. If your church is doing a sermon series through an entire book of the Bible, you could align your discussions with the preaching schedule to add another layer to what you’re learning. 2. Get a copy of your selected book of the Bible that has room for taking notes. You can create this by copying one chapter at a time from Bible Gateway into a document. Set the margins to wide and the spacing to 1.5 so you have room to write. Or, you can purchase these great ESV Scripture Journals if you want something ready-made, usable, and attractive. Get a copy for you and for your child. 3. Set a schedule to meet once a week for a 30-minute discussion. Use a reading plan to help you break the text into readable increments. Most reading plans are set up for daily reading through the entire Bible over a specific period of time. Simply adapt the daily portions into weekly ones for the book of your choosing. For example, this ESV reading plan covers the book of James in eight days, but you could cover it in eight weeks using the same text divisions. Create a schedule for your discussion times that notes dates and passages to be discussed. A schedule for James might look like this: Week Discuss: 1 Intro questions 2 James 1 3 James 2:1–13 4 James 2:14–26 5 James 3:1–12 6 James 3:13–18 7 James 4:1–10 8 James 4:11–5:12 9 James 5:13–20   4. Get a bird’s-eye view. For your first discussion time, ask your teen to come with answers to the following questions about the book you’ve chosen: Who wrote the book? To whom was it written? When was it written? In what literary style was it written? What are the central themes of the book? A good study Bible can provide these answers, or an online resource like Bible Gateway. I also highly recommend the Bible Project’s “Explore” series, which gives overviews to books of the Bible. (Here is the page for James, to give you a feel for how and what they communicate.) As you read together through the book you’ve chosen, help your teen think about how the answers to these questions shape their understanding of the book’s message. 5. Prepare for discussion. Each week before you meet to discuss the text, both you and your teen prepare by doing the following: Read the week’s passage from start to finish. In the margin of the copy of the text: Write (or make a drawing of) the main idea of the passage. Write a one- to two-sentence summary of what you read. Find one attribute of God that the passage is teaching. (Here is a list of attributes that can help your teen practice reading the Bible with a Godward focus.) Write two things you observe in the margin. Write two questions you have about what you’ve read. 6. Meet to discuss. Go over what each of you has noted in your copy of the text during your personal study time. Compare your answers, observations, and questions. Look for answers to your questions in an accessible commentary or study Bible. You could also track down answers after you meet together and discuss them the following week. Then, explore the following questions together: How does this passage fit into the book as a whole? How does it flow from the previous section of the text? How does this passage minister to its original audience? How does it minister to us today? Is there a sin to confess? Is there cause for thanksgiving or praise to God? Is there a promise or truth to trust in? Is there an attitude to change or a motive to examine? Is there a command to obey or an example to imitate? Is there an error to confront or avoid? (Note that you have a rich opportunity to practice and model vulnerability with your teen in these questions.) 7. Pray together. Finally, ask the Holy Spirit to help you apply what you have learned. The teen years are pivotal discipleship years for our kids. In these years they feel a restlessness to enter into mature adulthood but often an accompanying lack of clarity about how to do so. Give them adult-sized tools for navigating their Bibles, and help them learn how to use them. Encourage them to use devotional and topical materials as supplements to, but not substitutes for, direct study of the Bible itself. Model good habits of Bible reading. And most of all, savor the shared learning that results when a parent and a teen sit down to open the Word together. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • School Bans Students' ‘Bring Your Bible to School Day,’ Flyers, Suit Says

      An elementary school violated the U.S. Constitution when it prevented students from passing out “Bring Your Bible to School Day” flyers during lunch and recess, according to a new lawsuit. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • Christian Uses KonMari Method While Studying Bible To Remove All Verses That Don't Spark Joy

      COUNTRY HOMES, WA—After binge-watching hit Netflix series Tidying Up with Marie Kondo, local Christian woman Grace Milliken applied the innovative cleaning and organizing method to her Bible study time, prompting her to remove all verses that don't bring her joy from her copy of God's Word. The post Christian Uses KonMari Method While Studying Bible To Remove All Verses That Don't Spark Joy appeared first on The Babylon Bee. View the original full article

      in Christian Satire

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.