Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non-Nicene, non-Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Sign in to follow this  
William

The Wrath of God in Preaching

Recommended Posts

Staff

Share this post


Link to post

William, I don't have an hour right now. Maybe I'll watch it at some point, though. What was your takeaway? What do you hope we understand better because of this lecture?

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

The sermon covered Leviticus 10, the unauthorized (strange) fire. I'm writing from memory as I have not reviewed the entire sermon as of late:

 

10 Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorized[a] fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them. 2 And fire came out from before the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord. 3 Then Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified.’” And Aaron held his peace.

 

4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, “Come near; carry your brothers away from the front of the sanctuary and out of the camp.” 5 So they came near and carried them in their coats out of the camp, as Moses had said. 6 And Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and Ithamar his sons, “Do not let the hair of your heads hang loose, and do not tear your clothes, lest you die, and wrath come upon all the congregation; but let your brothers, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning that the Lord has kindled. 7 And do not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting, lest you die, for the anointing oil of the Lord is upon you.” And they did according to the word of Moses.

 

Besides being a case for the Regulative principal of worship, its application today left me disgusted. Verse 3 says "Among those who are near me I will be sanctified (Holy), and before all the people I will be glorified". Today, there are so many congregations no different than the world around them. It is impossible to tell the difference between those outside the church and those inside. They are there for entertainment. And in trying new things to entice people into a social club they call church these verses clearly say what was expected by God's people. Correct worship is spelled out for us, there is no room for foolery in our worship, no gimmickry etc. I am convinced that the law is a necessity in teaching others the Holiness of our God, I am appalled whenever someone lowers Jesus down to the level of my best buddy, my buddy who'd be cool with this or that.

 

At the end of Lev 10:3 it says Aaron held his peace. Imagine that, his appeal could of been, hey God my sons were trying new things to lure more people into church. Give us some leeway! But instead, it says he held his peace, literally, his mouth was shut, like so many will experience in the last day when every mouth will be shut before our Holy God. The sons of Aaron desecrated the worship of God, and God was not done, in Lev 10:4 God was ticked, He even wanted the dead corpses removed from out of the camp!

 

Sproul suggested that Leviticus 10 goes along the same lines as when David moved the ark, and it began to slip into the mud, and someone reached out to save the ark from falling into the mud. God struck the man dead! What did the man do? His first mistake was thinking that his own hands were cleaner than the mud on the ground!

 

That's a very quick recap. I loved Sproul's sermon, and it reminded me of the night my knees buckled. When I first had a glimpse of the Righteousness, Majesty, Justice, and the Holiness of our God. I am convinced that anyone that draws near to our Holy God recognizes the seriousness of man's depravity and just how wretched each of us are.

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
They are there for entertainment and trying new things to entice people into the church. These verses clearly say what was expected by God's people. Correct worship is spelled out for us, there is no room for foolery in our worship, no gimmickry etc. I am convinced that the law is a necessity in teaching others the Holiness of our God, I am appalled whenever someone lowers Jesus down to the level of my best buddy, my buddy who'd be cool with this or that.

 

I couldn't agree more; although, I'm not a hardline RP guy.

 

The boys over at the White Horse Inn have described the problems very well, I think.

 

I loved Sproul's sermon, and it reminded me of the night my knees buckled. When I first had a glimpse of the Majesty, Justice, and the Holiness of our God. I am convinced that anyone that draws near to our Holy God recognizes the seriousness of man's depravity and just how wretched each of us are.

 

Just as he did in the Garden, our enemy wishes to keep us from understanding both the holiness of God and the consequences of our sin. He is doing a very good job of it - within the churches. . .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

I couldn't agree more; although, I'm not a hardline RP guy.

 

The boys over at the White Horse Inn have described the problems very well, I think.

 

 

 

Just as he did in the Garden, our enemy wishes to keep us from understanding both the holiness of God and the consequences of our sin. He is doing a very good job of it, within the walls of churches. . .

 

One of the studies I attended was a discussion group that talked about the White Horse Inn. We would meet each Monday and review and pause the discussion and talk about it. It was a Lutheran Missouri Synod group.

 

I think some refrain and negate the word of God. They don't want others to feel convicted, but I honestly think they are working against God. If the word convicts someone into repentance then that is God. If God convicts someone out of the congregation then that may just be protecting the flock. It isn't our job to determine who to convict or not, boldly speak the scriptures. I can give various reasoning, but in short, I believe we shouldn't water down the word of God. I know some that believe that the Pulpit should never be a place to preach the wrath of God.

 

God bless,

William

Share this post


Link to post

 

One of the studies I attended was a discussion group that talked about the White Horse Inn. We would meet each Monday and review and pause the discussion and talk about it. It was a Lutheran Missouri Synod group.

 

I think some refrain and negate the word of God. They don't want others to feel convicted, but I honestly think they are working against God. If the word convicts someone into repentance then that is God. If God convicts someone out of the congregation then that may just be protecting the flock. It isn't our job to determine who to convict or not, speak the scriptures. I can give various reason, but in short, I believe we shouldn't water down the word of God. I know some that believe that the Pulpit should never be a place to preach the wrath of God.

 

God bless,

William

 

We think that we are smarter than God. We soften what He has made hard (His law), and we make difficult (justification), what He has make easy.

 

People misunderstand me constantly on subjects like homosexuality. They assume that my blunt and direct stance is hateful, when it couldn't be more loving, for the only cure for sin is forgiveness. When some well-meaning Liberal Christian softens the charge against sin - when he says to the homosexual offender, "peace, peace, when there is no peace" (Jer 6:14) he has kept a sinner from being forgiven. It is only when the law's demands are placed firmly on one's shoulders that he begs for mercy. When the law is explained away or softened to the point of simply being "nice" to others, there can be no mercy, as there is simply no need for it.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

We think that we are smarter than God. We soften what He has made hard (His law), and we make difficult (justification), what He has make easy.

 

People misunderstand me constantly on subjects like homosexuality. They assume that my blunt and direct stance is hateful, when it couldn't be more loving, for the only cure for sin is forgiveness. When some well-meaning Liberal Christian softens the charge against sin - when he says to the homosexual offender, "peace, peace, when there is no peace" (Jer 6:14) he has kept a sinner from being forgiven. It is only when the law's demands are placed firmly on one's shoulders that he begs for mercy. When the law is explained away or softened to simply being "nice", there can be no mercy, as there is simply no need for it.

 

 

 

Couldn't of said it better thatbrian.

 

God bless, brother,

William

Share this post


Link to post
One of the studies I attended was a discussion group that talked about the White Horse Inn. We would meet each Monday and review and pause the discussion and talk about it. It was a Lutheran Missouri Synod group.

 

I tried to get one of those started here, but here in the cold, dark northeast, there aren't many Christians, let alone those of the Reformed persuasion.

 

Do you still attend the group? Was it enjoyable? Would you say that it has any kingdom worth?

Edited by thatbrian

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

 

I tried to get one of those started here, but here in the cold, dark north east, there aren't many Christians, let alone those of the Reformed persuasion.

 

Do you still attend the group? Was it enjoyable? Would you say that it has any kingdom worth?

 

It was, the host posts on this forums. I think he is starting another group, which I will attend when I receive word. I also attend an OPC study group done by another church close by throughout the week. I know it can be tough finding a Reformed community. The study group was very enjoyable, talking about the White Horse Inn. I think any group that gets you speaking bout God and articulating your thoughts on the subject is sharpening the edge of your sword! I think I write decently, but my verbal ability is nowhere near my typing. I try to attend any study group that provides the opportunity to better articulate the Gospel.

 

God bless,

William

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Topics

    • Former “Duck Dynasty” Star ‘Very Proud’ to be Criticized for Preaching the Gospel in His New Book

      Phil Robertson, known by many as "The Duck Commander," recently released a book titled The Theft of America's Soul: Blowing the Lid Off the Lies That Are Destroying Our Country. While the book, which has a February 5th release date, is anticipated by many, Publishers Weekly took issue with many of its central aspects. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • ‘Big Bang Theory’ Flashes Brief Message Telling God To Vent His Wrath On Trump Supporters

      Chuck Lorre, the producer of “Grace Under Fire,” “Dharma & Greg,” “Two and a Half Men” and “The Big Bang Theory” has shown his visceral dislike of President Trump before, but the October 25 episode of “The Big Bang Theory” offered some of the nastiest bile yet. Lorre is well-known for inserting a vanity card for a brief momentat the end of episodes of his shows that viewers can find if they pause their DVR to read it. View the full article

      in Political Conservative News

    • 5 Truths About the Wrath of God

      “With his whole nature in combination and harmony, God acts out his own completely consistent opposition to evil. He opposes it with every fiber of his being. And this opposition is his wrath.” — Mark Dever Text: Revelation 11:15–19 Preached: September 11, 2018 Location: Ocean City Bible Conference, Ocean City, New Jersey You can listen to this episode of TGC Word of the Week here or take a look at Mark Dever’s sermon manuscript. Related: God in the Hands of Angry Sinners (Michael Kruger) God’s Anger Is Good (Bill Mounce) If God Weren’t Angry (Paul Tripp) View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • How Do I Find My Own Voice in Preaching?

      I guess some people are just born with “it.” They possess a seemingly innate capacity and charisma to communicate a message with precision and passion. There was a time when I thought I had it. I can vividly recall the feeling when I argued a case before a mock jury as a middle-schooler. From the opening “May it please the court” to “I rest my case,” the room was rapt. People told me I had it when I preached the annual youth-week sermon at my church. You know, that week each year when the pastor gives the rookie a shot at the pulpit after having eight months to prepare to preach 1 Timothy 4:12. You’d better have it when you get that assignment. Those illusions went with me into pastoral ministry. While I knew there was much to learn, I was certain the pulpit would be a place of comfort and stability. But my naïveté led me to some dark places when the painful truth became clear. I didn’t have it. I Became a Copycat  So here’s what I did when that began to sink in: I attempted to pattern my pulpit ministry after someone who did have it. I became a caricature of someone whose theology and preaching I deemed effective. I adopted his mannerisms, his cadence, and his themes as my own—parroting them to my hearers under the guise of engaging exposition. But it wasn’t. At least, not to me. No doubt I said many true and helpful things about the Scriptures in those years. I regurgitated theological verbiage that was, and is, transformational. But it wasn’t the Spirit’s voice and the author’s intent through me. I wonder if Timothy shared in my plight. Perhaps his timidity was linked to proclaiming the Word. We know Paul repeatedly exhorted him to do just that (1 Tim. 4:2). We read this letter and rush to application for modern readers. We, too, should preach the Word. Often lost in the hustle of application is the personal nature of the letter itself. Paul is writing to a young pastor—to an image-bearer whom God appointed to lead the church. “You preach the Word”! Disembodied voices don’t preach. Real people do—people with personalities, stories, fears, and convictions uniquely woven by God into the person who proclaims, “Thus says the Lord.” I have discovered six ways to foster growth in this season of my ministry—and to help a preacher find his own voice sooner. 1. Spend Time around Honest Mentors We all need those willing to critique our fledgling attempts at speaking God’s Word to God’s people. Ideally this happens in the context of a healthy church where opportunities abound for regular reps. In the early years, it’s worth doing whatever necessary to cut your preaching teeth in a healthy church for this reason. Not only do you need preaching experience; you also need those willing to meet with you on Monday and point out the strengths and weaknesses of your sermon. These mentors can journey with you over a number of years to track your growth and affirm the unique voice you bring to the pulpit. 2. Diversify the Voices You Consume  Too much of one voice makes it hard to avoid the copycat trap. We’d be foolish to deny the effect of our heroes’ writing or preaching ministry. Praise God for the shape they’ve given our lives. But when our sermons come out sounding like a microwaved version of Piper or Lloyd-Jones, we have a problem. We find depth in preaching by feasting on God’s wisdom mediated through a diverse assembly of voices with a variety of perspectives and styles. As we read and listen more broadly, we’ll begin to notice that God can, and does, speak through the uniqueness of each individual, not just one perfect preaching persona. If we talk to others, we’ll find that God uses certain voices to affect different listeners in different ways. This provides needed encouragement to find our own voice. 3. Risk Experimentation We develop few life patterns without a fair share of failure and frustration. We should expect no less in our preaching. Sadly, we often don’t give ourselves the grace to fail, recover, and change. All creative endeavors require such an unglamorous process for the outcome to resonate as authentic. That’s why we should try various modes of communication in the pulpit, not because we know they work (at least not at first), but because we’re feeling out what sounds right on our lips and what connects best with the hearers. This might mean humor that falls flat or personal illustrations that seem disingenuous. But we never know until we try, fail, and find our style in the weeks and years ahead. 4. Take Strategic Breaks Sunday is always coming. This doesn’t allow much margin to adapt our style and find our voice. Even those who only preach one sermon a week find it difficult to break the mold when they’re under the gun to have something ready for the Lord’s Day. That’s why it’s wise to take breaks that allow you time to reflect and get ahead. Also, sitting under someone else’s teaching can provide helpful insight into your own preaching style. 5. Trust God’s Strategic Placement At its core, the temptation to copy represents a lack of faith in God’s strategic placement of our lives among a group of people, each with their own unique needs. Sure, we could read them a sermon from a great expository preacher, and they could be helped. But they can do that on their own. Our people need us to embody God’s message for his people in a real time and place, with the precision of a careful shepherd who knows his sheep well enough to speak truth into the intricacies of their daily lives. The more we grow in trust that God has appointed us—and not a more impressive pulpiteer—within our own strategic context, the more readily we’ll find our unique voice. 6. Keep Going Above all, we must believe that effective preaching requires perseverance. We can easily look with envy at those whom we presume to have the illusive “it,” while minimizing the hundreds or hours they’ve likely spent honing and refining their voice. This shouldn’t suggest that we’ll all be exceptional communicators given enough time. Most, like me, will always hover just above average. Rather than crushing us, this is a hopeful reality, because God’s résumé is filled with work experience using those of average ability to accomplish the amazing. Our confidence is in him and the power of his Word, not in our performance or ability to copy the gifts of another. God already has a John Piper, a Conrad Mbewe, an H. B. Charles, a Martyn Lloyd-Jones. For reasons perhaps known only to himself, the Lord has called you to the pulpit to be yourself and forget yourself. Go, find your voice. Previously in this series: How Do I Prepare My Heart to Preach? (Kent Hughes) What Should I Preach Next? (Julius Kim) How Do I Handle an Unbeliever’s Funeral? (Phil Newton) How Do I Preach Expository Sermons from Proverbs? (Dan Doriani) Should I Learn Hebrew and Greek or Is Bible Software Enough? (Kevin McFadden) How Long Should My Sermons Be? (Hershael York) What Do I Say at a Funeral for a Person I Didn’t Know? (Phil Newton) How Long Should It Take Me to Prepare a Sermon? (Dave Harvey) 8 Lessons Calvin Teaches Us About Preaching (Ray Van Neste) How Can Expository Sermons Avoid Being Wooden and Uncreative? (Colin Smith) How Should I Respond When I Deliver a Dud? (Hershael York) What Role Does the Spirit Play in My Preaching? (Dave Harvey) Should I Preach the Longer Ending of Mark? (Danny Akin) Should I Pause an Expository Series for Palm Sunday and Easter? (Phil Newton) Should I Always Call for Repentance and Faith? (Steven J. Lawson) How Should I Preach Ecclesiastes? (Zack Eswine) How Can I Help My Congregation Listen to Sermons in a Culture of Distraction (Sebastian Kim) How Do I Preach Difficult Doctrines without Splitting the Church? (Hershael York) How Not to Preach an Easter Sermon (Steve Tillis) How Do I Deal with the Genealogies? (Scott Slayton) View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

    • 10 Lessons I Learned from Preaching Revelation

      In June I concluded a series of 38 sermons in the book of Revelation. As I reflect on my time in this remarkable book, 10 truths stand out. Spoiler: the things that had the greatest effect on me had nothing to do with numerical symbolism or 666 or the Beast or the Great Prostitute or the millennium. 1. Persecution Is Part of the Christian Life Christians in this present age can expect to suffer intense persecution at the hands of an unbelieving, idolatrous world. No one is exempt. To suffer is not an indication of God’s disappointment with us but of our identification with Jesus. When embraced with humility and courage it can be a tremendous way to make known the sufficiency and beauty of all that God is for us in Jesus. 2. God Is Sovereign God is absolutely and comprehensively sovereign over all the affairs of all mankind. Not even the most wicked stand outside of God’s providential power. It often appears that the entire world reels with one blow after another. In Egypt, dozens of Christians are killed when ISIS detonates a bomb on Palm Sunday. Bloody civil wars continually erupt around the globe. Racial strife continue in our country. The world, by all appearances, appears horribly unstable, chaotic, and out of control. Revelation is God’s word to us that he is in complete control. 3. Christ Is King Jesus Christ is pre-eminent above all earthly powers and persons. At the heart of human sin is the tendency to exalt as god anything or anyone above or in preference to Jesus Christ. But he is King over all kings and Lord over all lords. Jesus is alive from the dead and seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high, reigning and ruling and exercising absolute sovereignty over all the kings of the earth, all the events in the Middle East, throughout Central and South America, and even in the plans of North Korea, China, and Russia. As “the ruler of the kings on earth” he mysteriously governs and regulates what all earthly kings and presidents do, sometimes restraining them from doing evil, sometimes frustrating their plans, but always ordering events so they might serve his purposes. We can’t figure out how he does it, but he does. Paul declares in 1 Corinthians 15:25 that Christ “must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.” So don’t just read the newspaper or scour the internet. Read and reflect with the eyes of faith on the supremacy of Jesus Christ over all things. 4. All Things Will Culminate in Jesus We have assurance that God will accomplish his purposes and bring all things to their consummation in Jesus. No matter how bad circumstances may become, no matter how oppressed the church may be, no matter how successful and powerful the world and its wicked ways appear, nothing can derail or disrupt God’s purpose in history to bring a Bride to the Bridegroom at the wedding feast of the Lamb. 5. The Church Will Appear Dead As the global oppression of the church spreads and intensifies, there will come a time when it will appear that the church has been destroyed. For a time, its voice will be silenced and its presence barely noticeable. But this is only in appearance, as the church will rise up in power, as the catalyst for a global harvest of souls. If you wonder where I find this point, I encourage you to listen to my sermons in Revelation 11. 6. Satan Is a Formidable, but Defeated, Foe Satan hates God and hates you and hates the church. He will do all within his power, under God’s sovereignty, to undermine your confidence in God’s goodness and lead you to abandon your faith. But we are assured complete and final victory as we overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb, by the word of our testimony, and as we do not love our lives even unto death (Rev. 12). 7. Christians Will Be Preserved by God Although the wrath of God against sin and idolatry will intensify and expand as we approach the second coming of Christ, no Christian will be the object of it. We will be preserved eternally safe and secure. God has sealed his servants, all of them, with the Holy Spirit—and no amount of suffering or hardship can separate us from the love of God in Christ. 8. We Can’t Comprehend the Great Things that Lie Ahead Neither eye has seen nor ear has heard the marvelous blessings God has in store for his people in the new heavens and new earth. As Paul put it in Romans 8:18, “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” 9. Justice Will Be Served The one thing that will guard your heart from becoming cynical and pessimistic is the repeated assurance in Revelation that a time of reckoning is coming when God will bring justice to bear on the earth. Truth will be vindicated; evil will receive its rightful recompense. 10. Christ Is Coming Soon Amid all the argumentation over this book with its symbolism, the question of Israel, the rapture, and the tribulation, may we never lose sight of what is pre-eminent: the physical, personal, bodily return of Jesus Christ to consummate his kingdom. That is our blessed hope! So remember: although some will tell you that you are wasting your time reading and meditating on Revelation because it’s too difficult and obscure, Jesus tells us otherwise: Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. (Rev. 1:3) Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book. (Rev. 22:7) The book of Revelation is not beyond your ability to understand and believe and obey. Don’t miss out on the blessing promised for all who keep what is written in it. View the full article

      in Christian Current Events

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.