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William

The Gospel Racism Social Justice

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In the first video, he was really serious with his logical explanation about how his job is spread the gospel. I've never heard of him before, so I'll have to look up more of his stuff. But I really like how he explains that he's sympathetic but still remains focused on God and what he can do now for God. I really like that mindset. The second video had me laughing through the first twenty seconds. "Jesus did not come to alter the tax bracket," is such a tongue in cheek way of saying that Jesus has better things in mind than how much money is in your bank account. I'm not sure that Jesus didn't create a social revolution considering how much Christianity has influence the world and opened up God to everyone. But I totally get what he's saying.

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I've never heard of him before, so I'll have to look up more of his stuff.

 

His name is Pastor and Dr John MacArthur. I admire his conviction above all else.

 

God bless,

William

 

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I don't want to offend anyone here. Nonetheless, I have to mention that South Africa was based on the reformed theology, and the church was a major supporter of aparthied. In other words, they did nothing to try to stop it. Let's keep that idea in mind.

 

Also, note that in the south USA, certain churches, often Presbyterian, gave full support to segregation and slavery. Therefore, the question remains, if reformed theologians had thier way, would anything had changed? I doubt it.

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Also, note that in the south USA, certain churches, often Presbyterian, gave full support to segregation and slavery. Therefore, the question remains, if reformed theologians had thier way, would anything had changed? I doubt it.

 

Please provide references and proof. Because quite frankly, that's a false accusation. What I take offense to is the blatant disregard for verifying your posts by either showing Scriptural support or sources, for the sake of truth and historical accuracy. Especially considering that 2/3rds of the soldiers that died in the Revolutionary war were Calvinist, and the Presbyterian church - the form of Government America is founded with all her checks and balances opposed American slavery:

 

American slavery and continuing difficult relations between blacks and other Americans have been a central problem in American life from its beginning. Supporters and opponents of American slavery before the Civil War used legal, economic and scientific arguments to bolster their positions. Most of all they used Scripture. An early ecclesiastical attack on American slavery came from the Reformed Presbyterian (Covenanter) Church, the most theologically conservative descendants of the Scottish Presbyterian Reformation. From 1800 onward it would not permit church members to hold slaves. Citing the text “You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you,” (Deuteronomy 23:15) members were later active in the Underground Railroad and its preachers were active in Abolition activities.2 The Reformed Presbyterian Testimony, adopted in 1806, stated flatly:

 

The holding of human beings, of whatever race or color, as slaves, being in every respect opposed to the word of God, and inconsistent with the principles of the gospel of Christ, a gross infringement upon the rights of man, and so a sin against God, should be held and treated by national authorities as a crime. Nor can any constitution of government be just or moral which does not provide against the commission of such a crime within its jurisdiction. Ex 21:16, I Ti 1:9-10, I Co 7:21, Ro 13:4, Is 58:63.

 

How was it that a church so staunchly conservative as the Reformed Presbyterian Church so adamantly opposed American slavery? We are accustomed to thinking of supporters of slavery as conservative and its opponents as liberal, the Old South as conservative, the North as liberal. The Covenanters don’t seem to fit: they were not liberals. On what Scriptural grounds did the Covenanters oppose slavery? The Bible is full of references to slavery, rules concerning the holding of slaves, admonitions to slaves and masters about how to behave, enough so that supporters of American slavery felt confident in appealing to the Bible. The Reformed Presbyterians argued from the Bible that American slavery was wrong.

 

Sources:

 

http://www.americanpresbyterianchurch.org/?page_id=295

http://www.broomallrpc.org/articles/...oppose-slavery

 

God bless,

William

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OK, I made a mistake. I'd say a lot of people into the reformed movement opposed slavery and probably also forms of segregation. Nonetheless, I think a lot of them did not.

 

http://www.americanpresbyterianchurch.org/?page_id=295

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Calvinism

 

Afrikaner Calvinism is a theoretical cultural and religious development among Afrikaners that combined elements of seventeenth-century Calvinist doctrine with a "chosen people" ideology similar to that espoused by proponents of the Jewish nation.[1] A number of modern studies have argued that this gave rise to the Great Trek while serving to legimitise the subordination of other South African ethnic groups, thus laying the foundation for modern Afrikaner nationalism and apartheid.[2]

 

 

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OK, I made a mistake. I'd say a lot of people into the reformed movement opposed slavery and probably also forms of segregation. Nonetheless, I think a lot of them did not.

 

http://www.americanpresbyterianchurch.org/?page_id=295

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Calvinism

 

 

In Scripture man stealing was punishable by death: Ex 21:16. I think it also rather interesting that slavery today is more predominant than in anytime else in history. And still to this day, warring tribes in Africa sell off conquered tribes into slavery. What is disturbing to me is that a lot of people feel entitled to some form of restitution by white Americans, yet they do not look at their own peoples and what they had done back then and now.

 

A lot of people believe Scripture supports slavery, and it does, but not American slavery. Scripture more or less addresses the fair treatment of indentured slaves, another words, look, if you own a slave this is how you are to treat them. A person in the bible could sell themselves off to someone that paid off their debts. I find this kind of slavery rather noble, but this kinda repayment is rather frowned upon. Today we just file for bankruptcy, however, Scripture states that only wicked borrow money and do not pay back: Psalm 37:21

 

God bless, Jason, and thank you for the clarification and semi-retraction. I think your up against a solid wall looking for proof that any "REFORMED PRESBYTERIAN" church was on the side of American Slavery. And remember, the Democrats not only supported Slavery but also Jim Crow laws. And today, they are behind most racial tensions.

 

William

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In South Africa, there is little doubt that the Dutch Reformed Churches were unfortunately pillars of the Apartheid Establishment. But to suggest that American Reformed Churches were likewise behind slavery and mistreatment of the American Negro to the same degree is absurd.

 

There can be no doubt that to a certain degree, EVERY White Christian person in the Southeastern United States benefited from slavery and supported its continuation. HOWEVER, and this is the key word, to suggest that Calvinists of any sort (Presbyterian, Reformed, or otherwise) were ,more guilty than others of this offence simply does not hold up to an analysis of facts. In fact, at no point in American history do Reformed Churches display any greater or lesser tendency to mistreat the American Negro than say, Lutherans or Methodists, and in fact, the Reformed are LESS likely than for example, the Southern Baptist Convention, which divided from the Northern Baptist Convention over PRECISELY this issue!

 

One has to be very careful making such accusations. I am uncertain of Jason's nationality, but in America, the issues of race are still very much at the forefront of politics and social life (largely due to the antics of the badly named "Democratic" Party). To make such inflammatory statements as he did (ie, blaming the Reformed Tradition for being so sympathetic to white dominance, etc), he only succeeds in making matters worse. If he is not American, one can perhaps excuse his ignorance. If however, he IS American, then making such a statement is not only absurd, but downright dangerous and foolish.

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