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Faber

Were they drunk or merry (Genesis 43:34)?

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https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 43:34

 

 

 Some versions read that Joseph and his brothers were "merry" (or something similar), while others teach they were "drunk."

 

John Gill (and John Calvin as well as others) maintain they drank a plentiful amount but denied they were drunk, while the NET Bible reads they were "drunk."

WWW.STUDYLIGHT.ORG

Genesis 43:34 - He took portions to them from his own table, but Benjamin's portion was five times as much as any of... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

 

 

 

 

https://net.bible.org#!bible/Genesis+43:26

 

 

 

 

 The Hebrew shakar does mean to be drunk and emethustheesan in the LXX means the same.

 

 

 Now if they were drunk it doesn't mean we are to do the same. They were sinners just as all people (besides Jesus) are.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Faber said:

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis 43:34

 

 

 Some versions read that Joseph and his brothers were "merry" (or something similar), while others teach they were "drunk."

 

John Gill (and John Calvin as well as others) maintain they drank a plentiful amount but denied they were drunk, while the NET Bible reads they were "drunk."

WWW.STUDYLIGHT.ORG

Genesis 43:34 - He took portions to them from his own table, but Benjamin's portion was five times as much as any of... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

 

 

 

 

https://net.bible.org#!bible/Genesis+43:26

 

 

 

 

 The Hebrew shakar does mean to be drunk and emethustheesan in the LXX means the same.

 

 

 Now if they were drunk it doesn't mean we are to do the same. They were sinners just as all people (besides Jesus) are.

 

 

Interesting, only if a clear number indicated on a sobriety test could be performed to determine the depth of merry or drunkenness! Is there a standard for drunkenness given in Scripture?

 

Genesis 43:34 Portions were taken to them from Joseph's table, but Benjamin's portion was five times as much as any of theirs. And they drank and were merry with him.


A 5:1 ratio! Question, about the portions given? Was the five times proportion equally food and drink? And did Benjamin eat and drink all put before him on the table?

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Hey William,

 I assumed the portions were food, and I am not sure if Benjamin was able to eat all that was put before him. Can you imagine going out with 5 buddies (male friends) and saying I will eat 5 times as much as anyone else? I used to eat quite a bit but not that much.

 

This is just something to kick around. Whether they were drunk or not would not do anything to detract at all from the serious warning found in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. If anyone is unsaved and gets drunk ought to realize that the answer and comfort that Christ gives is not what they will find at the end of the bottle. If a Christian does this (cf. 1 Corinthians 11:21) then they are not living as they ought and that Christ has so much better for them.

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9 minutes ago, Faber said:

Hey William,

 I assumed the portions were food, and I am not sure if Benjamin was able to eat all that was put before him. Can you imagine going out with 5 buddies (male friends) and saying I will eat 5 times as much as anyone else? I used to eat quite a bit but not that much.

Ya, I think the scene is rather humorous in mood (a good time). The main difference in my mind's mental imagery between the narrator suggesting merry or drunkenness would be an emphasis on conduct or an emphasis on the nature of the event which involved eating and/or drinking.

 

In the context the Egyptians are mentioned and a conduct of behavior according to them is emphasized. Interestingly, I wonder why the ESV conveyed merry if the emphasis should of been from an Egyptian's perspective of improper behavior?

 

My personal conjured up imagery from the text's scene by use of merry rather than drunkenness is shifted from what the Egyptians think or "despite them" to having a good time in celebration or honor of the mentioned person.

 

Just some thoughts that come to mind.

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I see nothing to suggest they were drunk. Getting drunk would be drinking to excess and that kind of takes the merry out of things. I’m sure they were getting a proper amount of effect from the alcohol and enjoying each other’s company. Must have been quite a joyous occasion. 

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7 minutes ago, Erik said:

I see nothing to suggest they were drunk. Getting drunk would be drinking to excess and that kind of takes the merry out of things. I’m sure they were getting a proper amount of effect from the alcohol and enjoying each other’s company. Must have been quite a joyous occasion. 

They may have gotten a little drunk.  They were sinful humans, as stated above.  I guess I am not sure either way, it's not crystal clear in the text.  They may have fallen just short of being drunk probably based on the way the text is written. 

Edited by CDF47

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