Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Christian and Theologically Protestant? Or, sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Fenced Community

Christforums is a Protestant Christian forum, open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene- derived Christian Church. We do not solicit cultists of any kind, including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Lightning, Falun Gong, Unification Church, Aum Shinrikyo, Christian Scientists or any other non-Nicene, non-Biblical heresy.
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Truth7t7

Does Revelation 20:1-6 Represent A Human Kingdom On This Earth For 1000 Years?

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

The very context fully explains Satan being bound, and from what?

 

We know Satan is bound spiritually from "Deceiving The Nations" as seen in Rev 20:2-3 below?

 

The definition of "Deceive The Nations" is seen in verse 8 below, as Satan will "Deceive The Nations" To battle.

 

Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from performing this deception, as the angel in Rev 16:12-14 below must pour the sixth vial for Satan to be loosed.

 

Revelation 20:7-8 & Revelation 16:12-14same event of Satan being loosed to deceive the nations to battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations" dose'nt represent all evil being bound in the world, as dispensationalism teaches.

 

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Ok, you can say the same thing over and over again, but that doesn't explain your point or answer my response to you. Basically you are just spamming at this point by copy and pasting something you already wrote multiple times without answering the response.

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

What in the world are you talking about? I did not say you were practicing deception. I said Satan is currently practicing deception.

 

Which he is still doing.

That is what I am saying. No, he isn't. He is currently and actively deceiving.

 

What, in your opinion, does it represent then?

None of this argues for the equivalence of Israel and the Church, just Jew and Gentile in the New Testament Era.

 

That's like saying Luther and Calvin agreed on every topic of theology. They did not.

We will try again, I will underline in bold.

 

The very context fully explains Satan being bound, and from what?

 

We know Satan is bound spiritually from "Deceiving The Nations" as seen in Rev 20:2-3 below?

 

The definition of "Deceive The Nations" is seen in verse 8 below, as Satan will "Deceive The Nations" To battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from performing this deception, as the angel in Rev 16:12-14 below must pour the sixth vial for Satan to be loosed.

 

Revelation 20:7-8 & Revelation 16:12-14same event of Satan being loosed to deceive the nations to battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

"Deceive The Nations" dose'nt represent all evil being bound in the world, as dispensationalism teaches.

 

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Hey we dont need snarks from either side of the discussion . I am reading snarks from both sides.  We are not congress so lets be nice. 

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

We will try again, I will underline in bold.

 

The very context fully explains Satan being bound, and from what?

 

We know Satan is bound spiritually from "Deceiving The Nations" as seen in Rev 20:2-3 below?

 

The definition of "Deceive The Nations" is seen in verse 8 below, as Satan will "Deceive The Nations" To battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from performing this deception, as the angel in Rev 16:12-14 below must pour the sixth vial for Satan to be loosed.

 

Revelation 20:7-8 & Revelation 16:12-14same event of Satan being loosed to deceive the nations to battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

"Deceive The Nations" dose'nt represent all evil being bound in the world, as dispensationalism teaches.

 

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Again, you have not addressed my responses and merely copied your same post.  The deception of Satan is not only to deceive the nations to battle. That phrase is not in the text. He will deceive the nations. He will also gather them to battle.

3 minutes ago, Becky said:

Hey we dont need snarks from either side of the discussion . I am reading snarks from both sides.  We are not congress so lets be nice. 

Apologies if I came across snarky, that was not my intent. Meaning and tone sometimes gets lost in text.

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
Just now, davidtaylorjr said:

Apologies if I came across snarky, that was not my intent. Meaning and tone sometimes gets lost in text

Agreed 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Again, you have not addressed my responses and merely copied your same post.  The deception of Satan is not only to deceive the nations to battle. That phrase is not in the text. He will deceive the nations. He will also gather them to battle.

Apologies if I came across snarky, that was not my intent. Meaning and tone sometimes gets lost in text.

You don't answer my claim, verse 3 clearly states Satan is bound from "Deceiving The Nations" verse 8 gives the interpretation on "Deceive The Nations" as this is "Specifically To Battle"

 

It's your personal conjecture that "Deceive The Nations" applies to general evil and world deception, not as per the context, we will disagree.

 

The very context fully explains Satan being bound, and from what?

 

We know Satan is bound spiritually from "Deceiving The Nations" as seen in Rev 20:2-3 below?

 

The definition of "Deceive The Nations" is seen in verse 8 below, as Satan will "Deceive The Nations" To battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

Satan is currently bound in the spiritual from performing this deception, as the angel in Rev 16:12-14 below must pour the sixth vial for Satan to be loosed.

 

Revelation 20:7-8 & Revelation 16:12-14 same event of Satan being loosed to deceive the nations to battle.

 

"Deceive The Nations To Battle"

 

"Deceive The Nations" dose'nt represent all evil being bound in the world, as dispensationalism teaches.

 

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

Revelation 16:12-14KJV

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

You don't answer my claim, verse 3 clearly states Satan is bound from "Deceiving The Nations" verse 8 gives the interpretation on "Deceive The Nations" as this is "Specifically To Battle"

I answered this directly. Please go back and re-read my post. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, davidtaylorjr said:

I think you need to change your wording. Nobody that I know talks about a 1,000-year kingdom that ends at the end of those 1,000 years. This is a misrepresentation of what is going on here. The 1,000 years are a time when Satan is bound, he is released at the end of the 1,000 years for the final battle. The Kingdom continues because the Kingdom is victorious.

 

It should be noted, that this doesn't directly deal with Dispensational Theology but rather a sect of Dispensationalists. The idea that we can predict anything date-wise is utterly absurd. We know this from Scripture.

 

Again, I think this is a misrepresentation of Dispensational Theology. You must also look at the paradigm shift between the Old Testament, and what Paul is writing here. God interacted with humanity different in the Old Testament then He does now in the Church Era. He also interacted differently with humanity before the fall. There is also a distinction clearly in Romans 11 between Ethnic Israel and the Church. That is not to say that some of Ethnic Israel cannot be part of the church. Think of a Vinn Diagram.  But not all Church is Ethnic Israel. In that sense, you harmonize both positions. Yes, there is a distinction between Jew and Greek, but there is not a distinction between who can be saved by grace through faith.

 

Scofield is just one man. I really hate it when people single him out as the supposed face of Dispensational Theology. I would highly Recommend Bock's book "Progressive Dispensationalism."

 

Romans 11 makes clear the distinction between the Church and Israel. Israel is at enmity with the Church.

 

I guess I am a rarity? :classic_wink:

According to a section of Dispensationalists. This is NOT true of Dispensational Theology as a whole, please don't make those generalities. 

When Jesus returns, second advent?

 

1, Does the final judgment of all take place?

 

2. Does the resurrection of all take place?

 

3. Is the eternal body received?

 

4. Does your future 1000 year kingdom have mortal humans present?

8 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

I answered this directly. Please go back and re-read my post. 

It's your personal conjecture that "Deceive The Nations" applies to general evil and world deception, not as per the context, we will disagree.

 

Horse is dead

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
1 hour ago, davidtaylorjr said:

None of this argues for the equivalence of Israel and the Church, just Jew and Gentile in the New Testament Era.

This line reads to me as dismissive to the Scriptures . That may not be the intent but it is what i read. AS if what was written of God 2000 years ago has no bearing today. 

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

It's your personal conjecture that "Deceive The Nations" applies to general evil and world deception, not as per the context, we will disagree.

It does not say that Deceiving The Nations means bringing them to war. That is ONE WAY he deceives the nations.

 

2 minutes ago, Becky said:

This line reads to me as dismissive to the Scriptures . That may not be the intent but it is what i read. AS if what was written of God 2000 years ago has no bearing today. 

Not at all. I'm saying that is not what those Scriptures are saying. Otherwise you have to ignore Romans 11 where there is an absolute clear distinction between the Church and Israel.

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 
Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 
Rom 11:3  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 
Rom 11:4  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 
Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 
Rom 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 
Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 
Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 
Rom 11:9  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 
Rom 11:10  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 
Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 
Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 
Rom 11:13  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 
Rom 11:14  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 
Rom 11:15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 
Rom 11:16  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 
Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 
Rom 11:18  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 
Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 
Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 
Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 
Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 
Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 
Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 
Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 
Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 
Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 
Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 
Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 
Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 
Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 
Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 
Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. 

We are going to disagree on the understanding of Romans 11 

I do not see God dividing His people . Dispensationalism does 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Becky said:

I do not see God dividing His people . Dispensationalism does 

Dividing Israel vs. the Church? Yes, absolutely. I don't see how you could possibly see it any other way. The distinction is clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

We completely disagree .. I believe  we are all one in Christ . Some folks see a difference some dont. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Dispensationalists believe this about the elect as well.

When Jesus returns, second advent?

 

1, Does the final judgment of all take place?

 

2. Does the resurrection of all take place?

 

3. Is the eternal glorified body received?

 

4. Does your future 1000 year kingdom have mortal humans present?

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

When Jesus returns, second advent?

 

1, Does the final judgment of all take place?

 

2. Does the resurrection of all take place?

 

3. Is the eternal glorified body received?

 

4. Does your future 1000 year kingdom have mortal humans present?

1. After a period of 1,000 years and a final battle yes.

2. After the aforementioned 1,000 year period.

3. Yes

4. Yes

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

What is was the first " Jesus advent"

Share this post


Link to post
45 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

1. After a period of 1,000 years and a final battle yes.

2. After the aforementioned 1,000 year period.

3. Yes

4. Yes

Thanks for the response.

 

We have established Jesus dose'nt return until "After" this 1000 year kingdom.

 

1. When will your 1000 year kingdom with humans start?

 

2. Is your kingdom taking place now?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

We have established Jesus dose'nt return until "After" this 1000 year kingdom.

Who has established this?

 

14 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

1. When will your 1000 year kingdom with humans start?

First, it is not a 1,000-year kingdom, it is a 1,000 year period. That being said, no man knows the time or hour.

 

14 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

2. Is your kingdom taking place now?

Not that phase of it, no.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Who has established this?

 

First, it is not a 1,000-year kingdom, it is a 1,000 year period. That being said, no man knows the time or hour.

 

Not that phase of it, no.

You have a 1000 year period in the future, and you don't have any indicator when it starts?

 

When Jesus Returns it starts?

 

You suggest the second advent, as no man knows the day or hour?

 

If it is when Jesus returns, will Jesus remain on earth with living humans present?

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

You have a 1000 year period in the future, and you don't have any indicator when it starts?

That wasn't what you asked. You asked when does it start. That is an answer we do not know. Scripture says even Christ doesn't know, only the Father.

 

10 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

You suggest the second advent, as no man knows the day or hour?

Yes the second coming.

 

10 minutes ago, Truth7t7 said:

If it is when Jesus returns, will Jesus remain on earth with humans present?

I believe I have already answered this multiple times.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, davidtaylorjr said:

That wasn't what you asked. You asked when does it start. That is an answer we do not know. Scripture says even Christ doesn't know, only the Father.

 

Yes the second coming.

 

I believe I have already answered this multiple times.

We have went full circle, you have established the three items below.

 

1. Your 1000 year time period begins at the second advent, return of Jesus Chist.

 

2. You believe Jesus remains on earth with mortal humans present.

 

3. You believe The final judgment takes place 1000 years after his second advent/return.

 

Matthew 25:31-46 below clearly teaches that when Jesus Christ returns in his second advent, the final judgment takes place, "Life Eternal" begins for the righteous, and "Everlasting Punishment" for the wicked, lake of fire. 

 

1. Does Jesus return in the second advent in verses 31-32 below? "Yes"

 

2. Does verse 46 show judgment to "Eternal Punishment", and the righteous to "Life Eternal"? "Yes"

 

All questions are "Yes"

 

When Jesus Christ returns, "Eternal Life Begins", not a 1000 year period, where Jesus runs around playing funeral director for humans dying around him.

 

Those that have a pre-determined bias in a literal 1000 year period on earth, don't want to acknowledge the very clear teaching, because their mortal humans are gone.

 

Yes Matthew 25:31-46 is a parable of the Great White Throne Judgment seen in Revelation 20:11-15

 

"THE FINAL JUDGEMENT"

 

Verse 46 "Life Eternal" "Everlasting Punishment"

 

Matthew 25:31-46KJV

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

Revelation 20:11-15KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Not at all. I'm saying that is not what those Scriptures are saying. Otherwise you have to ignore Romans 11 where there is an absolute clear distinction between the Church and Israel.

Verse 5 clearly shows the "Election Of Grace" the Jew being chosen to salvation through Jesus Christ and added to the "Church"

 

Verse 7 below shows two groups of ethnic Jews?

 

1. Ethnic Israel that does not obtain salvation, and they are blinded.

 

2. The elect Jew that obtains salvation through grace and is added to the "Church"

 

Romans 11:5-7KJV

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

When Jesus Christ returns, "Eternal Life Begins", not a 1000 year period, where Jesus runs around playing funeral director for humans dying around him.

Actually the Matthew passage doesn't give a time frame. If anything, Revelation 20 gives us the time frame to clarify the vague meaning of "then" in Matthew's Gospel. In fact, accodring to BDAG, the sense here is not "at that time" but rather, something that follows in time. This is a big distinction. Matthew's Gospel does not say this happens, then immediately this happens, then immediately this happens.

 

1 hour ago, Truth7t7 said:

Verse 5 clearly shows the "Election Of Grace" the Jew being chosen to salvation through Jesus Christ and added to the "Church"

Yes, a remnant. Notice this is not ethnic Israel. Still a distinction.

 

1 hour ago, Truth7t7 said:

2. The elect Jew that obtains salvation through grace and is added to the "Church"

Yes, so still a distinction between the Nation of Israel and the Church. Thank you for proving my point.

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Actually the Matthew passage doesn't give a time frame. If anything, Revelation 20 gives us the time frame to clarify the vague meaning of "then" in Matthew's Gospel. In fact, accodring to BDAG, the sense here is not "at that time" but rather, something that follows in time. This is a big distinction. Matthew's Gospel does not say this happens, then immediately this happens, then immediately this happens.

Matthew 25:31-46 clearly shows the return of Jesus Christ and "Final Judgment" a parable of the Great White Throne judgment.

 

You in your private interpretation insert a 1000 year time period into the parable that isn't seen, allowing for a time on earth in a Millennium?

 

You will closely note in verses 32-33 that the parable opens with Judgment as the sheep and goats are divided, and ends in judgment "Of The Same" "Eternal Punishment" "Life Eternal" in verse 46, no 1000 year period is seen inbetween as you claim. 

 

1 Cor 15:22-24 validates the fact, Jesus Christ was the first resurrected, then the believer will be resurrected at the coming of Jesus Christ, "Then Cometh The End"

 

There is no 1000 year time gap between verse 23 and 24

 

1 Corinthians 15:22-24KJV

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

Matthew 25:31-46KJV

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

Revelation 20:11-15KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

 

 

Edited by Truth7t7

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.