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kunoichi9280

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  1. I agree. All prayer is worship. I would have said as a Catholic that all prayer is sacred but only prayer to God is worship, and that since there is no intent there to worship Mary or the saints, therefore we can't be; that worship requires intent. Hairsplitting, I know. I would have said that since the Mass was not offered to Mary or the saints and the Mass is the true aim and expression of all worship that we do not worship Mary or the saints. And the EO are even more liturgically focused then Catholics. Both Catholics and EO have Eucharistic and corporate focuses on the ideas around worship. This website illustrates that a little bit better: https://www.goarch.org/-/worship "Worship in the Orthodox Church is expressed in four principal ways: The Eucharist, which is the most important worship experience of Orthodoxy. Eucharist means thanksgiving and is known in the Orthodox Church as the Divine Liturgy. The Sacraments, which affirm God's presence and action in the important events of our Christian lives. All the major Sacraments are closely related to the Eucharist. These are: Baptism, Chrismation, Confession, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the sick. Special Services and Blessings, which also affirm God's presence and action in all the events, needs and tasks of our life. The Daily Offices, which are the services of public prayer which occur throughout the day. The most important are Matins, which is the morning prayer of the Church, and Vespers, which is the evening prayer of the Church." "Since Worship in Orthodoxy is an expression of the entire Church the active participation and involvement of the congregation is required. There are no "private" or "said" Services in the Orthodox Church and none may take place without a congregation. This strong sense of community is expressed in the prayers and exhortations which are in the plural tense."
  2. I was curious, based on my experience as a Catholic, to see what the Eastern Orthodox consider worship. To a Catholic, true worship is the Mass, and a Mass cannot be offered to anyone but the Trinity. The Eastern Orthodox view turns out to be similar. Eastern Orthodox worship in this article is distinguished from Eastern Orthodox prayer in that 'worship' refers to the activity of the Christian Church as a body offering up prayers to God while 'prayer' refers to the individual devotional traditions of the Orthodox. The worship of the Orthodox Church is viewed as the Church's fundamental activity because the worship of God is the joining of man to God in prayer and that is the essential function of Christ's Church. The Orthodox view their Church as being the living embodiment of Christ, through the grace of His Holy Spirit, in the people, clergy, monks and all other members of the Church. Thus the Church is viewed as the Body of Christ on earth which is perpetually unified with the Body of Christ in heaven through a common act of worship to God. Eastern Orthodox worship - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG I obviously don't agree, but I wonder if that's part of how they're saying they're not worshipping Mary or the saints
  3. No, but I know a little about it and without being able to say necessarily whether it's problematic, it is certainly not something that should be engaged in at church. For people who have come out of the occult, it could be a stumbling block.
  4. Hi and welcome, Joe!
  5. That is an excellent article, and gave me food for conviction. Thank you. I have to put in a plug for the excellent (but not easy to watch) movie "Love Costs Everything", about the persecuted church. It really moved me and motivated me to make caring for my persecuted brothers and sisters a more consistent part of my life. The movie is free to watch if you have Amazon Prime.
  6. I think this is the crux of the problem the person I was talking to has. He doesn't really believe in original sin, so it makes sense that he doesn't believe in the need for regeneration, and therefore a person has at least some good in them and can be "good enough". Whereas what I was trying to say and didn't do a good job of is that all men need regenerating.
  7. I was talking with a somewhat liberal Catholic who has also attended the Eastern Orthodox for a period of time. He said that he didn't believe in the Catholic notion that if you commit one mortal sin you go to hell, but that there was certainly greater and lesser sins. I said that I believed all sins were mortal in a sense, in that we all deserve hell for our sins. He said that if that were the case, then Christians would be worse off then under the Old Covenant where you could sacrifice animals to atone for sin and Gentile God-fearers could be saved. I asked what was the point of Jesus coming and dying if some of us could be a sinner that was "not really that bad", but beyond that I blanked out on how to answer his point. Any input would be greatly appreciated if only so I can answer myself in my own mind. 🙂
  8. And if all else fails, there's the ultimate argument of the Magisterium. It's up to them to tell us what Catholic tradition is and what Scripture means, since there's not one nice and neat resource you can go to and say "This is Tradition". So really, for the Catholic, it's sola Magisterium.
  9. In my case, I had lost all but one of my Catholic friends over some complicated personal problems, so no one cared. My one friend is a very devout Catholic, but she fully believes Protestants are saved (she believes we have a lot of the faith but only Catholics have the "full" faith), so she was fine, although I'm sure she's disappointed. I had left my previous parish and hadn't really made any connections at another one so it was less of an issue for me. Had I done it five years ago, though, I believe we would have had a great deal of social pressure to stay, and the priest probably would have wanted to meet with us..
  10. Praying for the persecuted Chinese Christians
  11. I used to be really big into the apologetics of proving the Bible when I was younger. Now, God's Spirit testifies in me it's His Word. But I'm very grateful for all the apologetics. I"m sure there will come a time in my walk with God where I need a little more "concrete" proof and it will be there.
  12. So, to put it in casual terms, the fact that we care enough about our salvation to examine ourselves means we have it. You don't care about something that's not there. Kind of like the answer we were given when we were young and worried we blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I was told if we were worried about doing it that it was proof we hadn't done it. Am I getting what you're going for?
  13. So those who fall away and return would be ones who were truly saved? Also, if you have to continually examine yourself, does that mean that no real assurance of salvation exists? I realize what you're saying (I think) that the idea that you can believe and repent and then just go on your way doing whatever is wrong. I guess I'm just thinking if someone is a Christian, then falls away, but comes back, were they never really a Christian in the first place, or did they come back because they truly were a Christian? And had they died in the time they were away, would they have gone to hell? Maybe I'm overcomplicating it. 🙂
  14. What does the Bible teach about falling away from the faith? Can it happen? If you do, were you never really saved in the first place? And if that's the case, how can you know you're saved now?
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