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avbunyan

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About avbunyan

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  1. Greetings folks - I didn't leave because I couldn't stand the heat. I've been raked over the coals by rougher crowds. I leave because I don't see where that God has shown the folks the AV yet and there was no sense on flogging the dead horses anymore. That being said after reading this thread I couldn't resist posting the following. And don't worry I won't be staying to engage - need to redeem the time. God bless. Modern Day Bible Study Elder Dim Whit, “Welcome everybody to the Truth of Truth Ministry’s weekly Bible study. Thanks for being here. I’m stoked. Our passage to study tonight is John 11:35 Jesus wept. Let’s see what we can learn from this passage. Who wants to go first?” Bob, “Well, my New English Common Vernacular version doesn’t read Jesus wept but that “Jesus groaned.” Mary, “Interesting, you know the Greek word there for wept is ‘awahuu’ – I got this from Nestle.” Bill, “Wow, profound!” Bob, “But my version, The “Newest English Super Common Version” says grunt.” Jack, “You mean Jesus grunted?!?!” Mike: “My new “Authentic Expository Rendition” matches Vaticanus! And didn’t they find this great manuscript in trash can in the Vatican library? AVBunyan: “Yes, they did – maybe they should have left it there.” Harry, “I have a Greek lexicon from the 4th century Syrian that says the word for wept is really, ‘awahooie’ which makes a major difference in the phrasing! Wow, I get so excited when I use the Greek – makes me feel, well, just enlightened like an angel of light!” Elder Dim Whit, “I can see this is going to be a very uplifting night. Nothing like some real dynamic equivalent renderings using the aros tense of the subjective superlative!” Bill, “Harry, where did you learn Greek?” Harry, “I don’t really know Greek I just read it in Zodiates book, “How to Master Greek in 30 Days.” Martha, “Well, I have a Greek lexicon from the 14th Century revision of the Lollard #3 and the word wept can also be translated moaned.” Martha, “You have to understand the trials and tribulations for the times for without this information you can’t enter into the emotional congatative condiveness of the sureality.” AV, “What am I missing here – we are only talking about two words.” Harry, “Hush, AV, you’ve got a bad attitude! What about all those poor people before 1611?” Elder Dim Whit, “Hush, AV you are not exhibiting the sweet spirit of the Christ here. Also, what about all those people in other countries who can’t even speak English? Now let’s get back to our Bible study. Who has some more nuggets on, Jesus wept?” Mr. Brilliant, “My new updated ‘Antioch Gratulative Retention Bible’ speaks of the word wept being in the past tense conjegative thus meaning that Jesus was weeping before he ever got there. This really touched my heart.” Mary, “Oh, I feel my life is now completely changed based upon that nugget – thanks Mr. Brilliant.” Mr. Brilliant, “By the way my new version is special for the translators of this great work translated it so there are no words with less than 9 letters long so as to bring out the most demonstrative and subjectivelatuative meaning of the words thus enabling me to get all that can be gotten from the most complicated renderings thus making me even more brilliant in the eyes of unenlightened believers.” Harry, “I still think we need to examine the different 3rd century renditions of the Greek word ‘awahooe’ so we can see how other Greek writers used the word so we can determine the most reliable and effective use of the word for the most authentic rendering of the verse thus pulling from it all the vast riches of this profound word ‘awahooe’. AV, “But how do you decide who is right?” Mike, “AV, you are so narrow-minded! How can you read a Bible with Easter in it?” Nancy, “How do we even know John 11:35 was really in the originals?” Neal, “I found a scholar who read of a professor who talked with his gardener who knew an archeologists who was able to gaze upon the famous fragment P734075439.479 1/2 from the collection over in Dead Sea Visitor’s Center, oh I mean the ‘Dead Sea Museum of Ancient Artifacts’ and he says it is there.” Nancy, “Wow, could the archeologists read Greek?” Neal, “No, but the janitor could and he told him that P734075439.479 1/2 contained the verse as it stands in many of the modern versions.” Elder Dim Whit, “Well, that is great – I think we can call this Bible study a great success. Let’s meet next week so we can have some time to digest these great truths. Then we will be prepared to really dig into John 11:35 verse using all the modern tools and resources available.” Mary, “You are not coming next week are you AV?” AV, “No, I think I’ll just stay home and watch some Captain Kangaroo reruns, thank you for asking and for being so thoughtful.”
  2. Wrong - he critiqued their work and they pouted and called him mean-spirited. He took their own words and put them out in plain sight and took them apart. Again, you know nothing of the man. If he would have said it sweetly with perfume and using Right Guard you would still dislike him because he had exposed the devilment in bible versions today.
  3. Mercy William - have you warned some of the folks here for suspect treatment of me? I firmly believe an understanding of Greek nor Hebrew is not required to know the bible. Look what John Bunyan did with no education!!!! Top that my friend, respectfully. I don't care how much "Greek-Hebrew" a person knows if he comes out rejecting the bible God has used for over 400 years - doesn't keep me awake enough to yawn. You folks appear to looking down on me because I am not as "educated" as you. You have no idea how man times I have read thru the book or how much I've studied for we haven't been talking bible or doctrine here - we have been disusing texts vs. texts. Personally if the mark of education is a rejecting of the AV then I will pass on the education - thank you. Mercy, you folks seem to use "extra-biblical scholarly material" a lot. I wouldn't let some of these modern "scholarly" folks teach a childrens' bible class at my church. "Insanity as defined by Einstein is repeating the same process while expecting different results." - so now I am crazy. Oh well - life's a grin. LOL
  4. This just shows your ignorance of the man and reveals you are a thin-skinned listener of gossip. "A wanna be expert"? "Small minded'? You know nothing about the man nor will you ever because you have a high opinion of your self and knowledge.
  5. 1. What you call scholar I would call anti-King James "scholar". 2. Of course they are self-published- He had the recourses plus he controls the content - no one can change his work. No one could could own him and make him do their bidding. 3. Of course not - these "academic" journals reject the King James bible. 4. It appears in order to be a "scholar" in your eyes one would have t o correct the King James Bible.with their "Greek-Hebrew".
  6. 1. Copies of the originals you say? How do you know they are copies? Do you have the originals to compare? 2. So - you don't believe any bible is perfect. SO you believe God inspired his word but is not powerful enough to preserve it? 3. I call it confidence in the book I hold in my hands - you call it arrogance.
  7. Mercy - I am not saying a person's salvation is dependent on believing or nor believing a version. BTW - I will comment on Tit. 2:13 - Read it closely in the newer versions- it has one looking for a thing (glory) instead of a person - great interpretation. LOL!!! looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour
  8. OK - I can't pass this up - you just exposed yourself. I really wasn't planning on posting again but you goofed. One of the most brilliant AV-Greek-Hebrew scholars ever and most have never read his works they just listen to things about him. You say you've read "about" Dr. Ruckman but haven't examined his books. Hey folks has anybody here read his "Christian's Handbook on Manuscript Evidence" - written 1970? The book has not been refuted yet. His updated "Biblical Scholarship"? Have you listened to his taped series on Manuscript evidence? I did not think so. You would think if you were searching for truth you would check out the head hauncho in the defense of t he AV. In the 2nd chapter of this book he lists just a sample of the authors, books, resources he has used for over 50 years. How We Got Our Bible J. Patterson Smyth The Expositor’s Greek New Testament Untranslatable Riches Kenneth Wuest Golden Nuggets in the Greek New Testament Bypaths in the Greek New Testament Treasures from the Greek New Testament Word Studies in the New Testament Vincent The Text of the Greek Bible Frederick Kenyon The Text of the New Testament Bruce Metzger The Principles and Problems of Biblical Translation W. Schwartz Ancestry of Our English Bible Ira Price The Authorized Edition of the English Bible: It’s Subsequent Reprints and Modern Representatives Scrivener Codex B and Its Allies H.C. Hoskier Six Lectures of the Text of the New Testament Scrivener Report on the History and Recent Collation of the English Version of the Bible American Bible Society Handbook of Biblical Criticism John Knox Press History of the Bible Fred Batton Studies in Methodology in Textual Criticism of the New Testament Ernest C. Colwell Traditional Text Burgeon Causes of Corruption in the Traditional Text Burgeon The Revision Revised Burgeon Inspiration and Interpretation Burgeon Biblical Introduction Miller The Dead Sea Scrolls write-ups Moody Press International Standard Bible Encyclopedia The Westcott and Hort Greek Text Nestle’s Greek Text Metzger and Aland Beza’s Fifth Edition with Refinements The Greek Septuagint The Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon The Masoretic Text in Hebrew and English Theological Word Book of the Old Testament Moody Press Douay-Rheims Bible Translators and Traslations Harold Phillips Our God-Breathed Book—the Bible John R. Rice Faith Magazine BJU Press Fundamentalist Journel Liberty Baptist Univer. How Our Bible Came to Us Oxford University Press The Books and the Parchments F. F. Fleming and Revell The King James Version Debate D. A. Carson Why So Many Versions? Sakae Kubo, Walter Specht The Bible in the Making: “The Most High and Mighty Prince” (pg. 140-156) McGregor, Lippincott Co. The Textus Receptus and the KJV MacRae and Newman A Survey of Syntax in the Old Testament Eerdmans The Cross-Reference Bible The Study of the Bible Colwell The Canon and Text of the New Testament Casper Gregory The Text of the New Testament Kirsopp Lake The Old Testament Text and Versions Roberts The Text and Canon of the New Testament Alexander Souter The New Testament in the Original Greek Westcott and Hort The Words of the New Testament as Altered by Transmission and Ascertained by Modern Criticism Milligan and Roberts Principles of Testament Criticism with a Graphic Table of Uncials Frederick Gardner An Introduction to New Testament Textual Criticism J. Harold Greenlee What is the Best New Testament? Ernest Colwell Light from the Ancient East Adolph Deissmann General introductions to the Study of the Holy Scriptures Brigg The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series When you cunt the footnotes in the 2 books mentioned I can safely believe Ruck man when he stated in his 2 nd chapter "Much Learning Doth Make Thee Mad" that he has read all the evidence available - I said all from as far back to the heavy books from the 1600's. There is nothing that you or your professor, or James White and the rest of his crowd like him, any Greek/Hebrew scholar has read that he hasn't already critiqued. I doubt most of you here have never bothered to read his works - you probably heard he was rough and all the other gossip about him. I knew the man - met and chatted with him several times - he was at my church couple of times. He is one of the most gracious saints you will find but when you cross his bible and lie about it like many folks have done he will clean your plow. He has written a commentary and taught through just about every book in the bible. He has taught Greek-Hebrew for over 50 years and still believed the AV till the day he went to glory. You folks say you want evidence, proof, etc. then go a head and tackle his works if you have the guts. Are you afraid you might find someone you can't pick apart like me? I mentioned Dr. Ruckman because you would think that you would check out his work in your quest for evidence, and proof. Folks - you have raked me personally over the coals and yet some of have the nerve to say that I'm the one that has been disrespectful. I have confirmed a valuable truth here. I believe the only way man gets saved is if God opens their eyes to the truth of the gospel (II Cor. 4:6) and now I have been assured that the only way a person can see the truth of God's words in a King James Bible and the truth regarding the modern perversions is if God opens their eyes to the truth. All my work is worthless unless God opens y our eyes. May God take off the blinders the devil has put over your eyes and shine the light of the King James Bible into your hearts and minds.
  9. Close the thread - I cannot provide you exactly what you want - I provided you with sites, books, researchers, etc. and that is not enough. There is nothing more I can do here. You folks stand for perverted bibles and find fault with the book God has blessed for over 400 years.
  10. You want evidence or proof that all the modern versions originated from Egypt? Mercy - so many folks believe this and have manuscript evidence for this it is not even funny!!! From Dr. Ruckman's Biblical Scholarship = "Simply take Ira Price's chart on page 75 of his work entitled "The Ancestry of Our English Bible" and read LXX for Origen's fifth column in the Hexapla. Origen's fifth column IS the LXX. It is the Greek Old Testament Septuagint." You can check Dr. Ruckman's references in chapter 2 of his "Biblical Scholarship". Until you have read the sources he as then I have a hard time listening to your proof. Again - you can't see the doctrinal errors in the modern versions so why I should I listen to you keep telling ,me to prove my claim of all the new versions coming from the same source. Real simple to see all the MVs are joined at the hip - just lineup all the MVs and they read alike and read completely different form the AV. Where do you believe the MVs came from if the didn't come from Egypt?
  11. I do not know what you mean by primary source. Do you mean a recognized scholar that you agree with? One more time with feeling - my original time line in the initial post was "colorful" - I had Eusebius scampering down to Egypt personally to get the 50 copies. My bad - what else do you wan tme t do - slit my belly by noon? I should have known some of you were so much a stickler for accuracy and are just out to find what is wrong with me that you miss the point I was trying to make. You got so hung up on my "colorful story" that you can't seem to get my point. Side note - Origen - I know why you admire Origen for he believed baptism was pat of salvation and it appears you believe baptism is essential to salvation. You are a Church of Christ are you not? Let's try one more time: ALL THE MODERN VERSIONS ARE BASED UPON MANUSCRIPTS ORIGINATING FROM EGYPT WRITTEN BY A HEATHEN PHILOSOPHY NAMED ORIGEN. YOUR MODERN VERSIONS ARE NOT UPDATED KING JAMES BIBLES. THE AVERAGE JOE OUT THERE THINKS THAT IS THE CASE. THEY DO NOT GRASP THE IDEA THAT THEIR NEW VERSIONS ARE BASED UPON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF MANUSCIRPTS. THE CATHTHOLIC BIBLES ARE BASED UPON THESE SAME EGYPTIAN MANUSCRIPTS SO THAT MEANS THAT ANYBODY THAT READS A MODERN VERSION IS READING A CATHOLIC BIBLE! THE POPE IS GRINNING FROM EAR TO EAR! Now - go ahead and slam me for me not understanding the fine art of textual criticism and the fancy terms. Obviously you folks don't think much of my smarts. Well, I'm not real impressed with you for none of you here own up to vile verses from your MVs such as Mic.5:2; Luke 2:33; Matt. 5:22; I John 5:7,8; Acts 8:37 and 1,000 more attacks on the fundamentals of the faith. I'm not impressed with your intellect one bit - if fact you can flush all your textual manuscript knowledge down the toilet for you can't even see the devilment in the modern versions!!! Sad - pitiful...booo...booo...boo as kids do in the moves when bad guys show up on the screen! I would rather spend time and talking bible with ole' farmer Jones out in the backwoods for at least he believes the King James he held in his hand to be the perfect word of God. Wen I get to heaven I will just have to stand before God and apologize to God saying, "I'm sorry Lord - I taught King James Bible was the word of God." Yes - it is true that I cannot find the perfect documentation for all that I presented for some things cannot be proven for the just shall live by faith. I, by simple faith, believe my King James Bible is the inspired and perfect word of God without error or mixture of error. Final question - do you folks believe there is any bible on this earth that is the perfect word of God without error? If not then shut up and get off the stage and let a true bible believer teach the book!!!
  12. Dr. Ruckman’s chapter on the LXX in his “Christian’s Handbook of Manuscript Evidence” discusses Origen’s work regarding the 5th column being Origen. Dr. Ruckman’s “Biblical Scholarship” in chapter 4 – chapter 2 sites his just some of the resources and books he has read over the years. You probably don’t think much of Dr. Ruckman for most MV folks don’t care for him so I provided a few more links to show Eusbius’ association with Origen’s works. I guess I should have worded my statement better – I didn’t mean Eusebius physically went down to Egypt himself - What I was trying to say was Eusebius went to Origen’s works to get the 50 bibles. He did not go to the text from Asia Minor. https://www.scionofzion.com/origen.htm http://www.1611kingjamesbible.com/origen.html/ http://www.christianhospitality.org/resources/bible-fraud-online/content/bible-fraud4.html http://www.archive.org/stream/harvardtheologic11harvuoft#page/32/mode/2up http://www.historyofinformation.com/expanded.php?id=2211 http://www.1611kingjamesbible.com/constantine.html/ http://www.keithhunt.com/Nt_tran2.html Eusebius was a great ADMIRER of Origen and a deep student of his PHILOSOPHY. He had just EDITED the FIFTH column of the HEXAPLA which was Origen's Bible. Constantine chose THIS, and asked Eusebius to prepare FIFTY copies for him. Dr. Ira M. Price refers to the transaction as follows: "Eusebius of Caesarea (260-340), the first church historian, assisted by Pamphilus or vice versa, issued with all its critical marks the fifth column of the Hexapla, with alternative readings from the other columns, for use in Palestine. The Emperor Constantine gave orders that fifty copies of this edition should be prepared for use in the churches" (Dr. Ira M. Price, The Ancestry of our English Bible, p. 70).
  13. Origen said: "NEVER HAPPENED!!! Origen died ca. A.D. 253. Eusebius was born sometime between A.D. 260-265. Thus Origen was dead before Eusebius was even born. " I'll own up to this bad - I wrote this over 10 years ago and was just writing away trying to make it flow in a light way - I made it Hollywoodish - I know Origen's bones had dried up and blown away. Good catch Origen. My point was is that Eusebius went to Egypt and not Asia Minor to get copies. And with that little clean up. God bless
  14. Well let’s pause and summarize shall we? I know you folks are tired of avbunyan – I am too. Too much of avbunyan gives indigestion. LOL 1. The initial post stated all the modern versions originated from the work of a heathen philosopher named Origen from Alexandria, Egypt in the 3rd century. This is the crux of the issue. You folks never addressed this very well so we got off track chasing rabbits. 2. Origen denied the fundamentals of the faith and his twisted doctrinal views are reflected in the modern versions hence the onslaught of sites documenting these errors which of course you deny. 3. When you correct a King James Bible you are using Origen’s manuscripts to do so. 4. There are 2 lines of bibles – Origen’s work from Egypt which forms the basis of all the MVs and then there is the line which originated from Asia Minor from which the AV comes out of. 5. I’ve found that most of the time when a person wants to correct the words of an AV it is because they do not understand it. All the comparisons and the bickering over the different verse readings are a waste a time until you folks come to grips with the fact the your MVs are based on Origen’s work. It appears to me that most of your gripes about the AV revolves around the archaic language and the “fetch a compass” type of phrases. Mercy – if you can’t run with the footman now then how will you handle it the horsemen come?!?!?! And if you think you have found an error and think you need to change it then you will go to Egypt to get a “better reading”. You cannot or will never find a doctrinal error in the AV. You cannot google “doctrinal errors in the AV”.
  15. Very typical response Papa. Very scary for you may be the one who will side with the government and out me in jail because I believe the book God blessed for over 400 years. We do not follow a man - we do not shun saints who do not believe the AV - we do not force people to believe like we do. When a person wanders into our church with a modern version we do not surround, blast him, make fun of his bible, and ask him to leave - we've got more grace than you think. We accept him where he is and trust God to open the door to a discussion on the matter. I may come across rough and sarcastic on forums but off the forums I've got grace, patience, and charity. I'm one of the most cordial and respectful saints you will find but on forums folks are blinded and sometimes need a kick in their backsides to get their attention.
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