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  1. What's hilarious is that John MacArthur is not Reformed, Dr. MacArthur is credo baptist and a leaky Dispensationalist.
  2. This is starting to grow a little tiring. For example, you're suggesting that a believer does not have eternal security then you suggest that it is my interpretation that contradicts and proceed to warn me that my interpretation is in error. Why don't you do something about that giant plank in your eye? Doesn't seem like you understand what you're hearing. I haven't witnessed anyone in this thread teach OSAS but OSAS does convey eternal security as does Perseverance of the Saints. Wrong, John 10:26 says you do not believe BECAUSE you're not Jesus' sheep and not the other way around. The Elect are not made Jesus' sheep because of belief but because they were Elect. The ones that believe are Jesus' as evidenced by faith as Christ's sheep. What is the subtle difference between what you're saying and what I am saying? Throughout your entire rant you continually make the same mistake over and over again. You point to the evidence and make it a cause. For example, pointing to the very act of belief and think someone is saved by the act of belief when belief is evidence of salvation. One is not made into Jesus' sheep by their act of belief but believes because they are Jesus' sheep. Read John 10:26 more closely and then what follows. You do not believe BECAUSE you're not Jesus' sheep is not the same as You are not Jesus sheep BECAUSE you do not believe. The very things you state miss the mark about what is being said. It is your subtle commentary which is wrong. The Scriptures you quoted in John 10 do not say we can believe today and become Elect yesterday as Elections are based on some foreseeable future belief by the Father. You stated "So the question here is WHO are those that the father give to JESUS?" Then you state, "Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD "PRESENT TENSE" are God's Sheep and it is to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the present tense that God's promises are for." Now who are those that the Father gives to Jesus? You quoted the above but John 6:44 actually answers the very question you asked and then maligned with your answer. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. Yes you are wrong because again you're pointing to the act of man whether an act of repentance or faith as a condition or works of man which is the "cause" of salvation. Rather God provides the very conditions which are necessary for salvation by Grace. Both Confession/Repentance and Faith are of a double sided coin as I touched upon before but you ignored. The act of faith does not save us but it is the object of faith that saves us. The act of faith does not declare us righteous but the object of faith is an alien righteousness imputed us. The Elect which are Inwardly Called and Regenerated will Confess/Repent and turn to God in faith. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out (John 6:37). This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day (John 6:39). No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:44). And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father” (John 6:65). Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70). It is clearly seen that those who will be raised up at the last day—all true believers—are given to Christ by the Father. And only those whom the Father gives to Christ can come to Him. Salvation lies entirely in the hands of the Father. He it is who gives them to Jesus to be saved. … This is nothing else than unconditional election (Palmer, Five Points of Calvinism, 27). It is tantamount to blasphemy for anyone to argue that man is capable, of his own free will, to make a decision for Christ, when the Son of God says in words that cannot be misunderstood, “No man can come to me, except the Father … draw him” (Spencer, TULIP, 42). There is a subtle distinction between yours and other members of this board including mine. For example, John 5:39-40 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. Acts 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. While both speak of examining the Scriptures one group was condemned and the other complimented. One group made salvation all about them, that is, "I, me, and myself", the very acts of what they've done rather than Christ alone. There is no argument on a point you seemingly think others here are making in that a saved person will confess and repent of their sins turning towards God through faith. However, the subtle difference between you and others here is that we do not believe the act of a person is what saves them nor that their performance is the basis of salvation.
  3. @Fra Is your name Fran? My Troll sense is tingling.
  4. Not a democracy but a system of checks and balances. Presbyterians know how corruptible any man made system of government is. The checks and balances are a way to prevent corruption but it isn't full proof. Take America for example which is framed on the Presbyterian system of government. Already it is starting to look like the PCUSA. Too many corrupt people at the "national level", the power of the "people" is being transferred to the top. As long as people in America keep giving up rights for generous gifts out of the U.S. treasury ..... wrong subject. Got ahead of myself.
  5. I hear that kind of thing a lot. Ephesians 4:30 John 6:39 John 10:28–29b Titus 3:5 How do you reconcile the contradictions? Do you just believe God's word as you shown in the OP?
  6. Na. Just for FYI I see nothing in the verses you're providing that says these are believers. What do these mean? 1) Illumination 2) Tasting of the heavenly gift 3) Participation of the Spirit 4) Tasting of the good word of God 5) Tasting of the power of the world to come Do the above 5 equal believers? If one exhibits all the above then falls away at the first test of tribulation do you consider them Elect which are regenerated and now reprobate or were they always reprobate? The very list you make shows these are recipients of grace which being illuminated are able to perceive God's goodness. Is there not some "illumination" in the mind of the reprobate or unbelievers both in General (Romans 1) or Special revelation (Mark 4:17)?
  7. And nice meeting you. Just wanted to say hello before responding. Are you reading the entire context? For example: 2 Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 2 Th 2:12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Also, why is Hebrews 6 speaking of regenerated (born again) believers? Why wouldn't it be speaking of Covenant persons, ya know like OT Israel, those which received the mark, sign, and seal of the OT Covenant but were not considered Israel (not all Israel is Israel)? Did they not partake of the OT Covenant and receive Covenant blessings though they themselves were not faithful? Likewise, the NT Covenant church consists of believers and unbelievers alike. Hebrews 6 is suggesting that a person can be illuminated by the Holy Spirit, that is, they can taste the fruits of the Holy Spirit but they themselves are not producing fruit because they weren't regenerated by the Holy Spirit. These very people can be leading a bible study or even be adamant today about Jesus but the true test of faith is perseverance. Confession/Repentance/Faith are fruits of the Holy Spirit, God is the cause. It takes so much time to exegete the verses you put up so you'll have to excuse if members aren't tackling your verses which in large have already been addressed in the forum. But to answer your questions: 1) No 2) Depends on your definition of salvation. For example, He who begins a good work will finish it. Salvation begins before the foundation of the earth with predestination/Election. Though the calling and regeneration as well as conversion, justification, and sanctification come in God's due timing does He lose anyone that He elects to salvation? Conversion is something not all believers actually experience because they were Covenant children brought up in the NT Covenant always believed as far back as they can remember and today remain in the faith. Some however fall away and that's where Hebrews 6 and other Scriptures are really relevant. Confession/Repentance and Faith/Justification are a double sided coin. That is, when one confesses their sins and repents they are turning away from their sin in a direction towards God in faith for the forgiveness of sins. Lastly, how consistent are you? Let's say an infant dies, is the infant saved or not saved? That is, if the child never confessed/repented and/or professed faith like an adult? Was predestination/Election enough for an Elect infant? If you say no then you render God's choosing a man impotent, and if you say yes until a time of accountability when a young person can choose other than, then you're rendering God impotent. Man in such theology is made more powerful than God, that is, man's will can stop God's will. Consider the Golden Chain of Redemption which in large is not only addressing Sanctification but also Salvation from beginning to end: Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
  8. William


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