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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.


Arminian points 2 and 5 contradictory? If God elects on the basis of foreseen faith, He also foresees the LOSS of faith, which would imply that he does not elect the person who chooses Him at one point and renounces that choice later. So, by their own logic, that person would never have had salvation to lose in the first place because God foreknew they would renounce it. Unconditional election is just so much more logical.

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There is a whole lot of crazy in the Arminian view of salvation, and is really hard to reconcile with the bible.  It basically asserts that works righteousness is involved, even though it isn't

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I think its important to remember that those who have chosen either side or those who have not heard of either side, that they too are Christ Followers and not an enemy. 


For me I had never heard of Calvinism before joining CF. In all honesty I am not totally a 5 point Calvinists but am in a very deep study of each point, which has taken me a good while to to have the time . I don't argue about things I am not fully educated scriptural on. But I assure I am totally a Follower of Jesus Christ.

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On 2/28/2019 at 10:50 AM, Just Mike said:

I think its important to remember that those who have chosen either side or those who have not heard of either side, that they too are Christ Followers and not an enemy. 

There's a difference between the two camps. I respect you for taking the time to study. By my observation most Arminians are not so theologically analytical.


On 2/28/2019 at 10:50 AM, Just Mike said:

I don't argue about things I am not fully educated scriptural on. But I assure I am totally a Follower of Jesus Christ.

You should be prepared if you take the enemy's side. My sword is sharp and I have no problem using it in theological battle. I realize you are in information gathering stage, but the moment you go full blow Pelagian or Arminian I'll consider you the opposition in our Great Commision.


Theology in Evangelism has consequences, feel the weight of being accountable and responsible for what you teach. 


Love you!

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Long before I was in Ministry my heart was already involved in Evangelism from my youth, from my teen years and even while in the Navy.  My first date with my wife was to a Christian music, preaching event.  When we went on dates that took  time to get where we were going she read Scripture and Christian literature out loud. We often prayed on our dates. Christ has been our focus from the start of our relationship. Christ was the center of our marriage ceremony. and in our almost 50 years. When we felt Gods call to ministry, it had to be where we both knew that God was calling. Unless both husband and wife know the Call of God is genuine. For us obeying the "Call" started with going to a College that was Christian. After college then we went to Seminary.


God called me to do as He said in Matthew 28:19. To be even more effective in doing His of work of Evangelism especially so in Ministry I earned a MAR degree in Missionology, and a M. Div in Pastoral Care. Both degrees have Theology at the core of their degrees. I promised and am bound my Ordination to do as Matthew 28:19 says I am to do, and I have done. Sharing Jesus Christ has been my focus most all my life. This is Evangelism.


Before I was Licensed for Ministry I met with fifty deacons at North Phoenix Baptist Church in a special questioning time.  Nothing was more thrilling that answering questions by those deacons for over an hour.  I was Licensed with the Pastor presenting me the Certificate. For Ordination I presented a fifty page dissertation on The Theology of the Scriptures. The Ordination Council consisted some in long time respected ministry and Theological Professors, and some lay people, in all there were about 15 members of the council. The council received Theological dissertation few weeks before the actual council questioning with me. Each member was given a subject to question me on. The council meeting lasted a day, and their recommendation was forwarded on with the denomination of the council members. The results could show any of three results; 

1 Further study is needed in a particular area. 2. There is insufficient Theological understanding with the evidence  presented and further study is required Ordination was denied at this time  3. Theological evidence and understanding presented in the dissertation meets the requirements of the Ordinance council and Ordination was approved for the Ordination Ceremony at the church. I was given a 94% approval. I was complemented on my lifestyle of evangelism and what it took for me to enter ministery at 37 years of age.


Long before I received Gods call, my life was profoundly influenced by Scripture. I loved the Bible from a early age, I remember taking my Bible to school back in the eighth grade. I witnessed to my classmates, friends and family.  I used to visit older people in the hospital and their homes before I could drive, I road my bike. As I look back, Gods call upon me as youngster.. For me I've had a heart of Evangelism most all my life, its just as natural as breathing. 


Not that I have to prove to anyone that I have the correct Theology or that Evangelism is not at the core of my being, I am willing to stand before all in CF and state  I have more than just words typed in this thread.  I have been to Bolivia twice. This took much more than you could possibly imagine, how difficult it was to breathe in a 14,000 foot elevation. Both times it extraordinarily difficult getting to the places where I went . The food was disagreeable with my digestive system, and on my first trip as soon as I got home I was hospitalized. The second trip I had to sleep with oxygen due to the high elevation, when I got home I had serious sores in my nose for weeks. The hardships were many but the results where overwhelming!  Altogether over 600 men, women and children came to receive Christ and they were assigned Christians to disciple them. I have been to Mexico at least six times and ministered to families in the remotest areas where vehicles had a difficult time in reaching the people.  I spent time sharing Christ's love, and witnessing, giving Bible as well things that are basic to human survival. I shared Jesus Christ in places that were dangerous, and not always seeing the threat.. All these trips and materials I took were done at my own expense. 


I preached over a hundred times in Arizona, in  the mountains where they didn't  have flushing toilets, and places where it was over 120 degrees. I preached at the men's rescue missions many times to reach the souls of those who had given up, telling thent Jesus Christ was their only hope. I was part of a Monday night visitation for North Phoenix Baptist Church, and had one miserable man who had been running from the law for ten years, confessed murder to me. To make a long true story much shorter, I was able to find out the man whom he thought he had killed, was not dead and no charges were against him.  He repented and confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and he was reunited with his family.  I saw each of his family receive Jesus Christ and witnessed them baptized.  Evangelism is my life.


As a pastor I have not kept count of the people whom I had the high privilege of introducing Jesus Christ, as  those I baptized. I have ministered to so many in hospitals. some near death, some I was with when they passed. I have been with three families who lost infants, and shared Jesus Christ and ministered to them all in the name of Jesus Christ. I can't recall how many times when a person called and said there was an family member going to the hospital with a serious emergency. I  oftren got at the hospital before the ambulance arrived. This too is Theology in action. 


Most everyone who knows me,  had the Gospel exposed or preached to them, not only in words but deeds and actions. I have left the Gospels of John in hospitals that number in the hundreds. I have given out literally several hundred Bibles, some to those who didn't have one, some for the Clergy in hospitals to hand out, some for people in different languages than my own. I have no idea how many people whom I ran across in my normal traffic pattern of life, that I been witness to. But at almost 74 years of age I know my life has effected a number of  people for Christ.


William your mistaken is saying  ".I consider you the opposition in our Great Commission",  My life has been dedicated to Jesus Christ and His "Great Commission"  The focus of my life is Totally and Completely on and about Jesus Christ. I have felt welcomed here, and had the remoteness thought you considered me to be an enemy. For almost seventy four years I've lived my life without knowing anything about either Calvinism or  Arminianisn. I have shared with hundreds of people, that God so loved them that He gave His One and Only Son Jesus Chris that If they would trust and believe and follow Him that that would have eternal life. My way of saying John 3:16 so that it is personal. This alone has been my main focus.


I have no idea whom God has "called or chosen" only the Holy Spirit does. Those who are genuine Followers of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, do as He commanded us in John 13:34,35. My "battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens." Ephesians 6:12 HCSB  I only go to battle when I am called to resist evil. I have heard the roarer of the evil one disguised as a lion, his breath I've felt on my neck as he went in for the kill. But I will fear no evil as He is with me. I have the sword of God Almighty, I have the full armor of God on me, I am prepared for battle, I stand firm upon the very WORD of God. The helmet of salvation is on my heard. The shield of God is in my hand. But I shall NEVER take up the spiritual weapons of war against those who are Followers Of Jesus Christ.


Unless there is a life of spiritual fruit, Theology and and Evangelism are just words typed out somewhere. William, as Christ commands me to do, I love you my brother. What matters to me is a persons relationship with Jesus Christ. Should you ever be convinced in your mind that I am your enemy, I would leave.  God be with you.

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6 hours ago, Just Mike said:

Unless there is a life of spiritual fruit, Theology and and Evangelism are just words typed out somewhere. William, as Christ commands me to do, I love you my brother. What matters to me is a persons relationship with Jesus Christ. Should you ever be convinced in your mind that I am your enemy, I would leave.  God be with you.

Would love to tackle this subject in an appropriate thread on the board. If you think that this may be beneficial I welcome you to begin a thread on this subject.


God bless,


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