Jump to content

The Christian Protestant Community Forums

Sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community forums. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Community Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Steve

Paul was a false Apostle!

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

An aside involving this topic, I've seen a lot of "Christian" legalists, which are putting forth what amounts to doctrines of demons, and they work at trying to marginalize Paul. This is poisonous, false doctrine. For instance, Hebrew Roots types that are infuriated over scripture Paul penned (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, mind you), stating there are no holy days and such, that legalism involves the beggarly elements. Of course, such notions gore the ox of their religious cults.

 

There is a fringe movement these days that has gained some steam, trying to marginalize the gospel of grace. I have never been able to figure out these Hebrew Roots types, neither the mainstream "Christian" cults, that mix grace and law, that are Gentiles and desirous of some silly Jew-lite sort of religion, which ignores most of the whole law, as if keeping the law is like a Chinese menu, in the first place. But here's the sort of scripture the Paul haters can't stand. And how ironic is it that Saul, a Pharisee's Pharisee, the dyed-in-the-wool Jewish legalist, becomes Paul, that gores the ox of legalism, and, more than any other apostle, brought forth the glorious freedom of the gospel of grace, the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was Paul that brought this gospel to the entire world. Mind you, the other apostles agreed to the gospel Paul set forth, also, the gospel that Paul, in fact, learned from the Lord Jesus Himself, Galatians 1:11-12, a blatant lie Paul was of a different gospel. Paul was, indeed, an apostle, and he was not some apostle on the fringe of anything, rather the apostle that set the others straight, in their meetings at Jerusalem. Romans is even said by some to be the Christian Manifest, and well so.

 

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

 

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you… 9-10 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

 

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

 

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

 

Romans 3:20-24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

 

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Edited by HisNameJesus
  • Like 1
  • Best Answer 2

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, HisNameJesus said:

An aside involving this topic, I've seen a lot of "Christian" legalists, which are putting forth what amounts to doctrines of demons, and they work at trying to marginalize Paul. This is poisonous, false doctrine. For instance, Hebrew Roots types that are infuriated over scripture Paul penned (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, mind you), stating there are no holy days and such, that legalism involves the beggarly elements. Of course, such notions gore the ox of their religious cults.

 

There is a fringe movement these days that has gained some steam, trying to marginalize the gospel of grace. I have never been able to figure out these Hebrew Roots types, neither the mainstream "Christian" cults, that mix grace and law, that are Gentiles and desirous of some silly Jew-lite sort of religion, which ignores most of the whole law, as if keeping the law is like a Chinese menu, in the first place. But here's the sort of scripture the Paul haters can't stand. And how ironic is it that Saul, a Pharisee's Pharisee, the dyed-in-the-wool Jewish legalist, becomes Paul, that gores the ox of legalism, and, more than any other apostle, brought forth the glorious freedom of the gospel of grace, the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was Paul that brought this gospel to the entire world. Mind you, the other apostles agreed to the gospel Paul set forth, also, the gospel that Paul, in fact, learned from the Lord Jesus Himself, Galatians 1:11-12, a blatant lie Paul was of a different gospel. Paul was, indeed, an apostle, and he was not some apostle on the fringe of anything, rather the apostle that set the others straight, in their meetings at Jerusalem. Romans is even said by some to be the Christian Manifest, and well so.

 

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

 

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you… 9-10 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

 

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

 

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

Colossians 2:20-22 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

 

Romans 3:20-24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

 

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

Galatians 5:16-23 This I say then, walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Excellent post. When someone joins the CF they usually introduce them selves before jumping right in. Please make sure you have read the rules and by all means take the time to introduce your self. God bless.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

"Excellent post. When someone joins the CF they usually introduce them selves before jumping right in."

 

Thank you. Suppose I'm a jump in sort of person, have always been thought of as rather incorrigible, you not alone in that assessment. I pray about these things, and hope does spring eternal. 

 

Alright then, I'm a Bible believing Christian of many years, since very young, was baptized a Baptist, though am non-denominational, would listen to any Reformed, Sola Scriptura preacher of the word of God. Well, that rightly divides the word of God, should say, and presents the whole gospel of the Holy Bible, i.e., doesn't take a pass on the unpleasant truths, like holiness, sin and hell, God's not mocked, to avoid offending those in the congregation that came for the Cadillac, and resigned to one fact, and I've heard this many times, "We're all just sinners, saved by grace." There is some religion out there that is something less than one hour per week, well, most weeks, friends of the world and "go thou and sin some more" based I don't quite get as Christian, but that's another topic, and I was trying to introduce myself. See what I mean? Incorrigible!

 

:" Please make sure you have read the rules"

 

Are you saying I'm not here by grace? Alright, then. I'll look for the forum Old Testament.


God bless you, too, Just Mike.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
20 hours ago, HisNameJesus said:

Are you saying I'm not here by grace? Alright, then. I'll look for the forum Old Testament.

Every breath we take we ought know we are here by grace! Every morning I am amazed that God has not taken me throughout my sleep. I must be here for a reason, a calling, a station? Let's walk more worthily!

 

Note: Our rules or TOS are meant to serve not only you but those around you as a community. I hope you find that they are nothing more than a common sense approach to what you'd already expect. Of course the common "sense" or the common ground we share is Christ Jesus.

 

God bless and welcome to CF!

William

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, William said:

Every breath we take we ought know we are here by grace! Every morning I am amazed that God has not taken me throughout my sleep. I must be here for a reason, a calling, a station? Let's walk more worthily!

 

Note: Our rules or TOS are meant to serve not only you but those around you as a community. I hope you find that they are nothing more than a common sense to what you'd already expect. Of course the common "sense" or the common ground we share is Christ Jesus.

 

God bless and welcome to CF!

William

 

 

Very well said, and thank you, William!

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Again welcome. .. the site is full of information take a good look around . Glad to have ya ! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, HisNameJesus said:

"Excellent post. When someone joins the CF they usually introduce them selves before jumping right in."

 

Thank you. Suppose I'm a jump in sort of person, have always been thought of as rather incorrigible, you not alone in that assessment. I pray about these things, and hope does spring eternal. 

 

Alright then, I'm a Bible believing Christian of many years, since very young, was baptized a Baptist, though am non-denominational, would listen to any Reformed, Sola Scriptura preacher of the word of God. Well, that rightly divides the word of God, should say, and presents the whole gospel of the Holy Bible, i.e., doesn't take a pass on the unpleasant truths, like holiness, sin and hell, God's not mocked, to avoid offending those in the congregation that came for the Cadillac, and resigned to one fact, and I've heard this many times, "We're all just sinners, saved by grace." There is some religion out there that is something less than one hour per week, well, most weeks, friends of the world and "go thou and sin some more" based I don't quite get as Christian, but that's another topic, and I was trying to introduce myself. See what I mean? Incorrigible!

 

:" Please make sure you have read the rules"

 

Are you saying I'm not here by grace? Alright, then. I'll look for the forum Old Testament.


God bless you, too, Just Mike.

 

 

Welcome to CF and than your Pastor!

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Greeting @HisNameJesus and welcome to the forums

4 hours ago, HisNameJesus said:

Are you saying I'm not here by grace? Alright, then. I'll look for the forum Old Testament.

 

As, for the Old Testament Paul speaks very favorably of it in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Speaking first that Timothy knew of the Scriptures as a child and that those same Scriptures are able to lead one to Christ/The Messiah (this seams to be the case in Luke 24:25-27  Acts 17:11) . It is those Scriptures Paul refers to in context that are inspired or God breathed and thus useful for the Christian. In Christ/Messiah we can read these Scriptures unveiled (2 Corinthians 3:14). Of, course New Testament literature is also inspired, but NT literature is equally inspired with the Hebrew Bible/OT.

 

If you want to join a thread on the OT (Tanakh /Hebrew Bible) or start one I will be more than happy to join in the conversation!

 

Grace and Peace

 

Edited by Ben Asher

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, Becky said:

Again welcome. .. the site is full of information take a good look around . Glad to have ya ! 

Will do, and thank you, Becky!

18 hours ago, Ben Asher said:

Greeting @HisNameJesus and welcome to the forums

As, for the Old Testament Paul speaks very favorably of it in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Speaking first that Timothy knew of the Scriptures as a child and that those same Scriptures are able to lead one to Christ/The Messiah (this seams to be the case in Luke 24:25-27  Acts 17:11) . It is those Scriptures Paul refers to in context that are inspired or God breathed and thus useful for the Christian. In Christ/Messiah we can read these Scriptures unveiled (2 Corinthians 3:14). Of, course New Testament literature is also inspired, but NT literature is equally inspired with the Hebrew Bible/OT.

 

If you want to join a thread on the OT (Tanakh /Hebrew Bible) or start one I will be more than happy to join in the conversation!

 

Grace and Peace

 

Regarding the Old Testament, that wasn't a comment on the Old Testament, just a little joke. If, as it appears, you didn't get it, maybe you should count yourself blessed of the Lord, that you have a sound mind. I fear perhaps I'm a work in progress! Peace...

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, HisNameJesus said:

Regarding the Old Testament, that wasn't a comment on the Old Testament, just a little joke. If, as it appears, you didn't get it,

Thanks for replying and clearing up my misunderstanding. I completely missed the joke, misinterpreted your post, as I took it seriously.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Good day everyone,

 

If John's Gospel is TRUTH, then Jesus, our Messiah, prayed for all of us and we have no need of Paul. John chapter 17 verses 6 through 21 explain this clearly. There is no need for Paul if and when you receive the TRUTH.

 

No further evidence is necessary.

 

Love, obey, and follow Jesus.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
15 minutes ago, 2John1.6 said:

Good day everyone,

 

If John's Gospel is TRUTH, then Jesus, our Messiah, prayed for all of us and we have no need of Paul. John chapter 17 verses 6 through 21 explain this clearly. There is no need for Paul if and when you receive the TRUTH.

 

No further evidence is necessary.

 

Love, obey, and follow Jesus.

 

Just curious are you questioning Jesus' use of 12 Apostles to lay the very foundation of the church?

 

Second question, do you hold the church in high or low regard?

Share this post


Link to post

Hi William,

 

Jesus chose His TWELVE while He dwelt with us on Earth. The TWELVE from Matthew 10:2-4 are also mentioned in Revelation 21:14. These are the TWELVE He prayed for. Please read John chapter 17--John 17 proves to the world that we need the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of John to believe.

 

 

Edited by 2John1.6

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
1 hour ago, 2John1.6 said:

Hi William,

 

Jesus chose His TWELVE while He dwelt with us on Earth. The TWELVE from Matthew 10:2-4 are also mentioned in Revelation 21:14. These are the TWELVE He prayed for. Please read John chapter 17--John 17 proves to the world that we need the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of John to believe.

 

 

You didn't answer all my questions. Like to add another. Are you Gnostic?

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not Gnostic... I simply believe in the fulfillment of Jesus's prayer. Chapter 17 of John's Gospel is developing as we speak. What Jesus pleaded for will come to pass. I believe in the effectiveness of this righteous man's petitions. James 5:16-18

Shouldn't we all?

Edited by 2John1.6

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, 2John1.6 said:

we have no need of Paul.

  Please list all the books of the New Testament you consider to be inspired by God.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
7 hours ago, 2John1.6 said:

Hi William,

 

Jesus chose His TWELVE while He dwelt with us on Earth. The TWELVE from Matthew 10:2-4 are also mentioned in Revelation 21:14. These are the TWELVE He prayed for. Please read John chapter 17--John 17 proves to the world that we need the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of John to believe.

 

 

Seems to me we need His Grace. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, 2John1.6 said:

I'm not Gnostic... I simply believe in the fulfillment of Jesus's prayer. Chapter 17 of John's Gospel is developing as we speak. What Jesus pleaded for will come to pass. I believe in the effectiveness of this righteous man's petitions. James 5:16-18

Shouldn't we all?

Then would you say the same for all the other books outside of the four Gospels with the exception of Acts? What about the Old Testament books, do you have any issues    with them? Just out of being interested are there many other people in Jerusalem that adhere to your thinking? Thanks for your time. 

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, 2John1.6 said:

Hi William,

 

Jesus chose His TWELVE while He dwelt with us on Earth. The TWELVE from Matthew 10:2-4 are also mentioned in Revelation 21:14. These are the TWELVE He prayed for. Please read John chapter 17--John 17 proves to the world that we need the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of John to believe.

 

 

One of the 12 in Matthew 10 is Judas, the "son of perdition", who betrayed Christ and hung himself.  That is a rather curious "Foundation" you choose for Revelation and the Church.  What of the conflict with Acts where the 11 Apostles choose Matthias to replace Judas (is Matthias also a false Apostle), and what of the Road to Damascus where Jesus confronts Saul and chooses him to be his messenger (as revealed to Ananias (Acts 9:11-16)? 

 

That places us at no fewer than 14 people "chosen" to be Apostles. 

  • Best Answer 1

Share this post


Link to post
18 hours ago, Faber said:

  Please list all the books of the New Testament you consider to be inspired by God.

I consider them all to be the inspired Word of God . I hope I misunderstood you . But did you indicate that Paul was a false apostle ? If he was then most of the new testament would have to be re-written . Answer, please…….   M

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/9/2018 at 3:33 PM, Steve said:

When I was 18 I attending a Baptist College and was required to take an Old Testament/Hebrew Bible Class and a New Testament/New Testimony Class.  The writings, the best I could determine, were in agreement in the Hebrew Bible but when I got to the New Testimony Class I found that lots of the different books/letters taught the exact opposite of what other books taught.  I found that the teachings of Paul were, for the most part, contradictory in that Paul would say one thing and then a few verses or chapters later Paul would say the exact opposite of what he had said earlier.  Paul would often talk out of both sides of his mouth, so to speak.  In a court of law a witness loses all credibility when he/she changes his/her testimony.  

 

I also noticed that Paul claimed to be an Apostle when there were already twelve Apostles.  I find no place in the Bible that says there will be thirteen Apostles.  So, I have determined that Paul was simply a self proclaimed Apostle and a false Apostle.  I have not found even one of the true Twelve Apostles that called Paul an Apostle.  It is my guess that Paul may very well have been a false Apostle and a person that made up tall tales.  A person that tells untruths is normally called a liar.  

 

Also, it is taught in the New Testimony that Paul was a willing part of the party that murdered Stephen.  The Hebrew Bible plainly teaches that anyone that sheds innocent blood is to be executed for such a heinous crime.

 

Genesis 9:6 ESV 

“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.

 

Could it be that Paul was a murderer, tare and false Apostle?  Could it be that Paul's books/letters cannot be trusted?

 

 

I guess Paul was the first Jehovah witness then. Nice   😇

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Matthew A.Duvall said:

I consider them all to be the inspired Word of God . I hope I misunderstood you . But did you indicate that Paul was a false apostle ? If he was then most of the new testament would have to be re-written . Answer, please…….   M

  Paul was not a false apostle. To assert otherwise is to call God a liar.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...