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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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I often tell my Trinitarian brothers and sisters in Christ that Christianity is only world religion which dares to discards its own founder's Creed (Mark 12:28-29) and the reason for me stating this is because it's true. I've read the whole Bible and I can confidently say that there is no greater foe to the doctrine of the Trinity than Holy Scripture. The only arguments I have seen which supposedly support the Trinity always fall into one of these categories:

1. A limited understanding of the original languages in which the Bible was written as well as the culture of these languages.

2. Taking verses out of context (no offense but it's true).

3. Improper translations

4. Uses ambiguous texts to interpret the rest of Scripture.

 

The Bible is actually very unambiguous about the nature of God which is that He is strictly one. Many denominations are in error right now but when the King Messiah comes back he'll restore the Church to it's apostalic glory and there will be a universal understanding of God (Isa 11:9)(Zec 14:9). The reason the doctrine of the Trinity is confusing to everyone is because it is a man-made doctrine created out of philosophical thinking. And because it's a man-made doctrine it's confusing and God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33).  The problem with the idea of the Trinity is that it contradicts the repeated statements in the Bible that God is one especially the King Messiah's own Creed which no one seems to follow (Mark 12:28-29). The first commandment says "thou shall have no other gods upon My face"...Scripture says that God is not a man, in Numbers chapter 23 verse 19 as well as in Hosea 11:9 and 1 Samuel 15:29. The Messiah can't be God. Isaiah 11:1-3 says that the Messiah will fear God. And of course there is no one who fits this description better than Jesus since he was completely sinless. The Father is Jesus' God just like He is ours:

Ephesians 1:17
I keep asking that the *God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father,* may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know Him better.

Revelation 1:5-6
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And has made us to be a kingdom of priests to serve *his God and Father–* to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

And there are actually about seven other times in Scripture where the Father is called the God of Jesus.
 

I mean really if Jesus called "the Son of God" then he by definition cannot be God. If Jesus is "the servant of the LORD" then he by definition cannot be the LORD. If Jesus is "the son of David" then he by definition cannot be David.

 

Jesus is called "god" but it must be understood in the secondary sense. In the Hebrew culture and language the term "god" for them didn't always mean what we think when we think of the word "god." Many people in Scripture were called an "elohim" or an "el" (Hebrew words) or a theos (Greek word). Moses was called an elohim in Exodus 7:1. All the judges and spiritual leaders of ancient Israel were called elohim (see Exodus 21:6 in Hebrew). Abraham was called an elohim in Genesis 23:6 which nearly all translations translate as "mighty one." Even Satan was called by the Apostle Paul the "god (theos) of this age" in 2 Corinthians 4:4. And the obvious meaning of that is that Satan is the master and mighty one of this current age since he is controlling mankind through sin. You were either called "god" if you represented God or you were called "god" if you were a "mighty one" or a "master/ruler" which is what "god" (elohim, el) meant to the Hebrews. Jesus even makes a point about the fact that the Jews are called elohim in the Torah of Moses in John chapter 10 verses 34-35.

 

Jesus even calls the Father Almighty the only true God in John 17:3 and then proceeds to make a distinction between the Father who is the only true God and himself. The Father Himself also says that He is the only one who is truly God is Joel chapter 2 verse 27. And we know for a fact that this is the Father speaking solely about Himself because Jesus said it was the Father speaking in Luke 24:49. And this was fulfilled in Acts 2:14-17.

 

So if the King Messiah says that the Father is the only one who is true God and the Father Himself says that He is the only one who is true God then I think it's safe to say that the Father is the only one who is true God.

 

If Jesus is eternal, why does Scripture say in

1 Peter 1:20 that Jesus was "foreknown before the foundation of the world"? A "foreknown" Son could not have always existed before being "foreknown" otherwise the meaning of the word "foreknown" is meaningless. You can't be eternal and be "foreknown."

 

Lets also discuss the ridiculousness of the Nicene Creed shall we? 

 

The Nicene Creed (as well as the Athanasian) is a perfect example of mental gymnastics. The Creed states rather jokingly-"the Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy Spirit is Almighty...but this is not three Almighties." That's no better than saying "this is a chair, here is another chair, and that's also a chair, but it's really one chair." The Creed also states that Jesus is uncreated which I have already shown is a Biblical fallacy according to the Apostle Peter.

 

I highly recommend the Apostle's Creed which is simple, Biblical, and precedes the Nicene Creed by over a century and is what the early Church taught and believed.

Edited by King David
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Allow me to show you why we will not waste our time on you.

On 7/25/2018 at 7:30 PM, King David said:

The Nicene Creed (as well as the Athanasian) is a perfect example of mental gymnastics.  The Creed states rather jokingly-"the Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy Spirit is Almighty...but this is not three Almighties."

Wrong!  The Nicene Creed does not state "the Father is Almighty, the Son is Almighty, and the Holy Spirit is Almighty...".

 

As for the  Athanasian Creed, it does make that claim but explains the meaning.

Quote

So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.

The only mental gymnastics here are those you brought trying to erase 2000 years of trinitarian theology with the same old weak and tired claims  that have been addressed over and over again.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 7:30 PM, King David said:

That's no better than saying "this is a chair, here is another chair, and that's also a chair, but it's really one chair."

Your laughable analogy is not even close to being the same thing.  When you have three chairs that are three persons, you let us know and we will talk.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 7:30 PM, King David said:

The Creed also states that Jesus is uncreated which I have already shown is a Biblical fallacy according to the Apostle Peter.

Wrong!  Your interpretation is asinine.  Being foreknown "before the foundation of the world" in no way rules out the Son's eternal nature.  In fact it is implied it because he was before creation.  Thus your understanding of the text is both childish and bias.  Moreover you ignore texts (and I do understand why you must) which clearly and plainly proclaim Christ is God.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 7:30 PM, King David said:

I highly recommend the Apostle's Creed which is simple, Biblical, and precedes the Nicene Creed by over a century and is what the early Church taught and believed.

Wrong!  You are not very good at this.  Hard evidence for an early date is lacking.  The first documented form of the Old Roman Creed, a so-called earlier version the Apostles Creed, can only be dated to the ca. A.D. 341.  The first known reference to the Apostles Creed is found in a letter dated A.D. 390.  The Nicene Creed is dated to A.D. 325.  By the way the Apostles Creed is Trinitarian in form\structure just like the Old Roman Creed and the Nicene Creed.

 

Your information is wrong, your analysis of texts flawed, and argumentation error filled.  Now that did not take too long.  But don't worry we are going to leave up your thread.  We Christians need a good laugh from time to time.

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Your confusion concerning the following passages has already been addressed in the past.

 

Isaiah 11:3-4 (see the second post)

https://www.christforums.org/forums/topic/5196-kardiognōstēs-does-it-mean-omniscient/

 

Mark 12:29

https://www.christforums.org/forums/topic/7792-the-shema-yhwh-encompasses-the-lord-jesus-deuteronomy-64-cf-mark-1229/

 

John 17:3

https://www.christforums.org/forums/topic/4190-the-only-true-god-john-173/

 

John 20:28 ("my God" in reference to the Lord Jesus)

https://www.christforums.org/forums/topic/4283-the-use-of-quotmy-godquot-in-john-2028/

 

 

 You asked, Why do Trinitarians think Jesus is God?

My response:

1. He is the proper recipient of prayer and prayer is due unto God alone.

2. He fully knows the hearts of all which demonstrates that He is omniscient (God) - see the link from Isaiah 11:3-4 above.

3. He is properly referred to as "my God" in John 20:28 - see the link from John 20:28 above.

 There are other reasons but these three ought to be clear enough for any honest and diligent seeker of the truth.

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