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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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Lucian Hodoboc

Religious obsessive compulsive disorder

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Lucian Hodoboc

There's a sub-type of obsessive compulsive disorder that makes people have intrusive (uncontrollable) blasphemous thoughts about God, The persons of The Trinity, Biblical figures etc. The thoughts sometimes persist even during prayer.

 

You can look up online, but just for clarification, I'm going to link two articles about it:

 

http://benotconformed.org/thoughts.htm

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/intrusive-thoughts.html

 

Are these signs of demonic oppression, or just a biological illness caused by chemicals in the brain (like psychiatrists say)? What do you think?

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Faber

Ezekiel 11:5

I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them. (KJV)

 

 Satan hates when prayer is rendered unto God by Christians seeking to perform His will. Many years back my fellowship with the Lord suffered because of the atrocious thoughts I would have. Eventually, by His grace, I was drawn back unto Him. When these thoughts arise I plead for the blood of Jesus to surround my heart and life and to carry on in His name.

 

Prone to wander, Lord I feel it.

Prone to leave the God I love.

Here's my heart, O take and seal it.

Seal if for Thy courts above.

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Becky
Moderator

(like psychiatrists say) ? Really? 30-40 years ago psychiatrists said homosexuality was a mental illness ... 

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Innerfire89

Intrusive thoughts could be nothing, I would imagine people have intrusive thoughts all the time and don't realize it. Thoughts are kinda like that, especially when it's something as horrible as blasphemy. Anything that's horrible has a way of replaying in the mind, like the scene of a car accident for example. 

 

It's possible that someone is demonicly possessed or influenced I guess, but there should be more evidence than that.

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Placable37
16 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

There's a sub-type of obsessive compulsive disorder that makes people have intrusive (uncontrollable) blasphemous thoughts about God, The persons of The Trinity, Biblical figures etc. The thoughts sometimes persist even during prayer.

 

You can look up online, but just for clarification, I'm going to link two articles about it:

 

http://benotconformed.org/thoughts.htm

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/intrusive-thoughts.html

 

Are these signs of demonic oppression, or just a biological illness caused by chemicals in the brain (like psychiatrists say)? What do you think?

Hi Lucian, Many Christians experience thoughts that are incompatible with the desirable standard of purity for a disciple of Christ, but there is a remedy every time they occur. As a discipline it is necessary to immediately reject and renounce the unrighteous thoughts and praise God in spiritual warfare against the source and strength of them regardless of other theories and diagnoses.

Php 4:6-8
(6)  Be careful (anxious) for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
(7)  And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
(8)  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Jas 4:7
(7)  Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
2Co 10:4-5
(4)  (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
(5)  Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Edited by Placable37
text

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William
Staff

I asked people in my bible study whether they need to take a minute or two to quite the mind before prayer. Personally, my mind processes all the secular media and world around me constantly. A lot of intrusive thoughts are the result of media I have been subjected to throughout the day, weeks, months etc. Does anyone here think they can sit and watch filth and it not play a role or affect a person's subconscious? Everybody in my bible study shared that they need a moment of silence in order to quite the mind down. Everyone exhibited intrusive thoughts to some degree.

 

I actually suffered from intrusive thoughts for a long time. I conducted a self experiment about a decade ago. I cancelled television subscriptions, radio, and only read from Scripture or Scriptural related media on sites where I was not subject to secular advertisements. In my journal I noted that my thoughts were less intrusive, and that my dreams were affected. I used to wake up convicted by sins which I did not commit, but the guilt was real as if I had done them within my dreams. After a few months even my dreams began taking upon the themes of Scripture. Many of the arguments I was engaged in online even manifested themselves in my dreams. I actually woke up a couple of times with a new perspective and or position to a debate I was involved in. The mind filters a lot of things we are subjected to and obviously we have less control than understood in our subconscious. It is like someone suggesting don't think about a pink elephant. The thought is intrusive. Marketing and other techniques are tried and trued to convey that image of the pink elephant. What worked for me? Ceasing to subject myself to anyone or anything that suggest a pink elephant.

 

I'm surprised secular scientist didn't conclude that having a sense of morality causes this personal turmoil. With nothing to condemn wrong (conscience etc) then there is no issue.

 

God bless,

William

 

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Just Mike

I have to have a quiet place with no distractions, by that I mean no music, telephone,  or grandchildren near me. When I have background noise I find myself being distracted, especially if there is noise outside like a road grader or my wife has Christian music on. 

 

For me to keep my mind focused and not wandering, I have a bottle of water, good light and window shades closed, because I tend to look at the birds feeling on the feeders next to the window. I then pray to see Jesus in what I read. I do have a self made way to read the Bible that works best for me.

 

I like reading the Bible after I have eaten breakfast and my basic things done where I can be less frustrated thinking about what I did or did not do. Some things I do after my daily reading a prayer. Unless my wife says its urgent I do not answer the phone or talk to anyone.

 

There are days when I have doctor appointments that require us to leave our house at 5 AM then I have my special time later in the day.

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William
Staff

Here's an experiment. Once settled down in a quite frame of mind take each "intrusive" thought that comes to mind and try to understand why it is intrusive. Is the thought good or bad, wanted or unwanted? What makes something good or bad, wanted or unwanted? Can you identify its source? Was it said or seen through media or someone else? You may need to go back a few days and review what you've been subjected to. I concluded long ago during introspection that a callous or numbness towards everything is not desirable. Why does abortion for example have an attached negative connotation in my mind? If the goal is to be inhuman, indifferent, callous, etc then I could detach any emotional attachment from every thought or instance that comes to mind. However, I think we should be righteous. Do we judge a thought by our own self serving standard or a Godly standard? I prefer to be (to a degree) emotionally provoked by certain thoughts or actions that I witness. I prefer not to be an indifferent party when I witness an injustice. There is self serving hatred and righteous hatred. I prefer the latter. And I prefer not to become so callous or numb to sin that I am unaffected by it. Of course there needs to be a degree of self control when allowing ourselves to feel what is provoking outrage.

 

I used to take great interest in Buddhism. Spent some years in meditation and introspection. Certain things I thought rather amusing. For example, in Buddhism all desires lead to attachments which end in suffering. The ultimate aim is to free oneself from desire, attachments, and suffering. At least that's what I heard a Buddhist woman teach who happened to be a mother. I wonder whether she tried to free herself from her child's emotional attachment? I wonder why the Dali Lama desires to free Tibet?

 

Point is there are intrusive thoughts. Take for example, envy vs jealousy. The feelings and thoughts can be quite intrusive and appear superficially the same. Envy is for want of what one does not rightfully deserve. And jealousy is for want of what one rightfully deserves. Both end up with a feeling of "want". When jealous thoughts come to mind are they necessarily wrong? And should they be considered intrusive because of what we consider a negative feeling attached to them? Should I as a husband not be jealous for my wife's time and affections? Is God wrong for being jealous?

 

I guess everything is intrusive if we desire stillness of mind. But this is a fundamental difference between Eastern and Christian meditation. Eastern meditation is mind numbing, while Christian meditation is "chewing" on the word of God. When we surround ourselves or absorb ourselves in sinful filth there has to be some expectation that our conscience is bothered. However, we can choose to numb our conscience through various psychological techniques or even drug ourselves so the side effects of a drug are stronger than our conscience convictions. We can even choose to abandon the faith altogether or any sense of morality.

 

As for me, I learned a while back that the Holy Spirit sometimes takes off the kid gloves and begins working my conscience overtime like a punching bag. My conscience can become quite battered. I can continue fighting the Spirit or I can enter into submission by first identifying the sin and its source in my life and then repenting from it. Sin not only affects an individual but people around. We can't expect to sit, stand, and walk with scoffers all day without it playing a toll Psalm 1

 

God bless,

William

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Fastfredy0
1 hour ago, William said:

Here's an experiment.

Wow, deep.

 

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

 

Having said that, I just finished an hour of watching Cliff Clavin, Sam Malone and Norm of "Cheers" fame. 🤸‍♀️

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Lucian Hodoboc
On 7/10/2018 at 9:58 PM, Becky said:

(like psychiatrists say) ? Really? 30-40 years ago psychiatrists said homosexuality was a mental illness ... 

And were they wrong?

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William
Staff
2 hours ago, Lucian Hodoboc said:

And were they wrong?

Obviously, "they" are not one unified body in unanimous agreement. "They" disagree then and now.

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Lucian Hodoboc
31 minutes ago, William said:

Obviously, "they" are not one unified body in unanimous agreement. "They" disagree then and now.

Yes, they do, but I'm afraid I don't understand where you're going with this. :classic_huh:

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Just Mike

We tend to some how think some sins concerning sex are much more of a sin that other things. Surely Homosexuality is the worse sin, but looking at a woman with deep lust is not near as bad. Wrong! All sin no matter what it is, even a white lie Jesus had to die on a bloody cross for. Yes, involvement with the same sex, doing what is unnatural sexually with someone is serious sin as it has crossed a natural boundary that basic instinct, our conscience tells us is off limits.

 

When we (no matter what our sex is) start lusting, and we can not control our body, and we start looking to satisfy our lust with someone else, or by using porn to satisfy our lust, we are starting to climb the sexual ladder. Each step we take up the sexual ladder,  increases driving desire to satisfy our lust, but that never is enough. One more step up leads to the next until the most vile sexual acts totally consumes that person. Then that person has shown to themselves what Romans chapter one clearly warns us about.

 

The Bible clearly tells us that we all have the potential to live out calling what is good, bad, and what is bad, good.  Little sin's can mushroom into lives that no longer even recognize or hear the voice of the Holy Spirits pleading to repent. The end result is a shipwrecked soul saved only by a thread, if at all. 

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