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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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deade

Can God Not Be

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deade

Paul, in his epistle to the Romans talked of a group of people that were witnesses of God’s very existence but denied a fellowship with Him. He claimed they even worked against God’s truth.

 

Rom. 1:18-23 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”

 

It is obvious that God is not going to let His existence be proven scientifically. Why? Because without faith, we cannot please God. (see Heb. 11:6).

Scientists have discovered just how intricate our world is put together. Many say that suggests intelligent design, myself included. I would like some input on how obvious God's existence is and just who was Paul speaking of that rejected God and became fools.

 

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Fastfredy0
20 minutes ago, deade said:

input on how obvious God's existence

Speaking from the view point that the Bible has made promises to a LITERAL Israel  (a view point that is questioned and is at odds with this website"s management); that the promises are 1,000s of years old; that Israel still exists and has regathered as a nation; that so many other races at the time Israel started no longer exist ... given all that, I contend this to be evidence of God's existence.  How obvious this is would be subjective and God is only "obvious" to those He has regenerated.

 

Aside:  I would prefer proof such as seeing Christ descending in the clouds and holes in His hands, but then I lack the gift of predestination; hey, if God wills it I will leave in 5 minutes for lunch.

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deade

Paul was addressing these people that knew God, but failed to honor and serve Him.

 

Rom. 1:21 “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.” 

 

Let us look further for a way to identify these people. Paul continues:

 

Rom. 1:24-32 “Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen." 

 

"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done."

 

"They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.”

 

It seems these people became homosexuals and, from there, went on to do a whole cadre of sinful behavior. Fighting against everything they know to be right.

 

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atpollard
1 hour ago, deade said:

I would like some input on how obvious God's existence is and just who was Paul speaking of that rejected God and became fools.

There are two choices ...

  1. CREATION came from nothing for no reason.
  2. CREATION came from a Creator for a purpose.

How "obvious" is it which choice makes sense and which is nonsense?

 

Paul was speaking of all men, but most especially the Gentiles.  Israel had God's revelation in the Law and the Prophets.  Gentiles had to look to creation for natural evidence of a creator.  It was the pagan gentiles who were more inclined to worship statues of creatures (although Israel was not immune).  Paul pretty accurately describes the general immorality of the Greek and Roman world of his day.

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Innerfire89

I always thought them to be Israel, but it could be all people I think.

 

 Creation is the natural conclusion leading to God, all of the ways nature works lead to realization of God and his attributes.

 

Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart there is no God.

 

 

 

 

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Placable37
13 hours ago, deade said:

Paul, in his epistle to the Romans talked of a group of people that were witnesses of God’s very existence but denied a fellowship with Him. He claimed they even worked against God’s truth.

 

Rom. 1:18-23 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”

 

It is obvious that God is not going to let His existence be proven scientifically. Why? Because without faith, we cannot please God. (see Heb. 11:6).

Scientists have discovered just how intricate our world is put together. Many say that suggests intelligent design, myself included. I would like some input on how obvious God's existence is and just who was Paul speaking of that rejected God and became fools.

 

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NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

 

I went to a University and there studied Nothing.
And slept on a mattress with very good stuffing.
With stress levels climbing everywhere by degrees,
My goal was to write a philosophical treatise.

 

While I studied Nothing in Utopian bliss,
My efforts revealed something awfully amiss.
It's impossible, Methinks, for Nothing to exist,
Because then it would be something not there to be missed.

 

Confirmed was my find in this verse sent from heaven,

"With God nothing shall be impossible", Luke 1:37.

My thesis on Nothing I then boldly presented,

My Doctorate of Philosophy would, I hoped, be consented.

 

Theologians and scholars, esteemed lawyers and doctors,

Distinguished professors, and even some proctors,

Appraised my great dialectic with much huffing and puffing,

And awarded me a straight P.H.D. in Nothing.

 

07-11-05 © 

RIVERS OF MEANING: NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

 

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William
Staff
1 hour ago, Placable37 said:

NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

 

I went to a University and there studied Nothing.
And slept on a mattress with very good stuffing.
With stress levels climbing everywhere by degrees,
My goal was to write a philosophical treatise.

 

While I studied Nothing in Utopian bliss,
My efforts revealed something awfully amiss.
It's impossible, Methinks, for Nothing to exist,
Because then it would be something not there to be missed.

 

Confirmed was my find in this verse sent from heaven,

"With God nothing shall be impossible", Luke 1:37.

My thesis on Nothing I then boldly presented,

My Doctorate of Philosophy would, I hoped, be consented.

 

Theologians and scholars, esteemed lawyers and doctors,

Distinguished professors, and even some proctors,

Appraised my great dialectic with much huffing and puffing,

And awarded me a straight P.H.D. in Nothing.

 

07-11-05 © 

RIVERS OF MEANING: NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

 

 I define "nothing" as the absence of all knowledge. Romans 1, as Deade points out says that God is evident in creation. The Scriptures do not try to prove God exists (correct me if wrong). The existence of God is an axiom (self evident).

 

God bless,

William

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Placable37
8 minutes ago, William said:

 I define "nothing" as the absence of all knowledge. Romans 1, as Deade points out says that God is evident in creation. The Scriptures do not try to prove God exists (correct me if wrong). The existence of God is an axiom (self evident).

 

God bless,

William

In the beginning God...👍

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Lucian Hodoboc
On 6/21/2018 at 7:16 PM, deade said:

It is obvious that God is not going to let His existence be proven scientifically. Why? Because without faith, we cannot please God. (see Heb. 11:6).

One can still lack faith in someone's actions even if they have certainty of His existence. Are you sure that Heb. 11:6 refers to faith in God's existence, rather than faith in God's promises?

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Faber

I think it refers to both. If one has faith that He exists it follows that one ought to believe His promises. An existent yet untrustworthy God is not something the Bible comes anywhere even close to presenting.

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Lucian Hodoboc
19 hours ago, Faber said:

I think it refers to both. If one has faith that He exists it follows that one ought to believe His promises. An existent yet untrustworthy God is not something the Bible comes anywhere even close to presenting.

That's an assumption that the person believes in the accuracy of The Bible.

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Faber

 If they don't want to believe the accuracy of the Bible then they have created a god of their own making.

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deade
On 11/7/2018 at 1:48 PM, Lucian Hodoboc said:

One can still lack faith in someone's actions even if they have certainty of His existence. Are you sure that Heb. 11:6 refers to faith in God's existence, rather than faith in God's promises?

It may be easy to say I believe in God's existence, but obedience to God is our proof of that belief. I can lose faith in God's promises and even turn my back on God. Then what have I really lost faith in: I would say in myself. We must continue to believe God and His calling on our lives. It will show in how we live our lives. So we seek God by obedience.  

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deade
On 11/8/2018 at 10:37 AM, Lucian Hodoboc said:

That's an assumption that the person believes in the accuracy of The Bible.

 

I would say the accuracy of the Bible is irrelevant if we truly have the Holy Spirit as our teacher. Man can come and change the scriptures but God's anointing will overcome the falsehoods. That is why I usually must have two or three witnesses to establish a truth for doctrine. Christ even suggested such.

 

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

 

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William
Staff
On 12/14/2018 at 11:03 AM, deade said:

 

I would say the accuracy of the Bible is irrelevant if we truly have the Holy Spirit as our teacher. Man can come and change the scriptures but God's anointing will overcome the falsehoods. That is why I usually must have two or three witnesses to establish a truth for doctrine. Christ even suggested such.

 

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

 

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I would say that you're suggesting that general revelation could still be the only means required for salvation and in essence water down special revelation. Not to mention what if Scripture was altered and pointed to works righteousness or performance related salvation? Could a person be saved by the erroneous or unorthodox theology though an entire Catholic church agree?

 

On another personal note of interest,

 

Question, brother. In the surrounding context I see that the adulterous woman was brought before Jesus. I'm just posting for the point of clarification. The woman was brought before Jesus without two witnesses, and then Jesus' discourse began afterwards.

 

Deuteronomy 17:6 On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die shall be put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.

 

In my mind Jesus was alluding to Deuteronomy and those that brought charges against her were "dismissed" by Jesus because they failed to follow the requirements of the Law. Now I realize this is a controversial interpretation as some would have it that each were convicted by some writing on the ground. Some say, Jesus could of written His name God YHWH on the ground, but I find it "as" plausible to suggest He could of written this Scripture. All of which would be slandering or bearing false witness if they themselves had not witnessed the adultery.

 

Jesus then continues into the next paragraph. There is where your post gleans merit. In context two or more men could conspire together, but Jesus is iterating that the Son's motive is not to attend to His own private ambitions or desires, etc (a single witness), but rather to carry on the corporate business of His father (Father bears witness about Jesus John 8:18).

 

Your thoughts?

 

God bless,

William
 

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deade
On 12/14/2018 at 1:11 PM, William said:

I would say that you're suggesting that general revelation could still be the only means required for salvation and in essence water down special revelation. Not to mention what if Scripture was altered and pointed to works righteousness or performance related salvation? Could a person be saved by the erroneous or unorthodox theology though an entire Catholic church agree?

 

On another personal note of interest,

 

Question, brother. In the surrounding context I see that the adulterous woman was brought before Jesus. I'm just posting for the point of clarification. The woman was brought before Jesus without two witnesses, and then Jesus' discourse began afterwards.

 

Deuteronomy 17:6 On the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one who is to die shall be put to death; a person shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.

 

In my mind Jesus was alluding to Deuteronomy and those that brought charges against her were "dismissed" by Jesus because they failed to follow the requirements of the Law. Now I realize this is a controversial interpretation as some would have it that each were convicted by some writing on the ground. Some say, Jesus could of written His name God YHWH on the ground, but I find it "as" plausible to suggest He could of written this Scripture. All of which would be slandering or bearing false witness if they themselves had not witnessed the adultery.

 

Jesus then continues into the next paragraph. There is where your post gleans merit. In contrast two or more men could conspire together, but Jesus is iterating that the Son's motive is not to attend to His own private ambitions or desires, etc (a single witness), but rather to carry on the corporate business of His father (Father bears witness about Jesus John 8:18).

 

Your thoughts?

 

God bless,

William
 

 

In you first paragraph where you are suggesting that scripture could have been altered, yes. I believe antichrist has had influence on it. But this is God we are speaking of which is able to work above and beyond anything any evil spirit could. I am saying the HS will guide us over the humps of an imperfect scripture interpretation. I believe God preserved enough to accomplish His will.

 

I am not sure what you mean in the last paragraph when you said: "His own private ambitions or desires." I think the lesson around the adulterous woman is twofold. One point being made about two witnesses, and the other about mercy and forgiveness. He had them on that none of them were sinless and qualified as judge of another.

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Solas

It is man's ways to attempt to find God through sight (the eyegate) but it is God's way to reveal Himself through hearing (eargat); as in 'faith comes by hearing and hearing  by God's Word Rom 10  or...

,

Hebrews 11:3 (KJV) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Or to put it another way, which comes first, the Word of Prophecy or it's 'seen' fulfillment

 

Edited by Solas

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