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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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Anto9us

There They Stood

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Anto9us

A while back at a used bookstore -- I saw two different books both entitled HERE I STAND -- one was the very famous biography of Martin Luther by Roland Bainton, the other was the autobiography of John Shelby Spong!  

 

Well, I read neither for a long time -- the Luther biography I let sit a good while because I already had an excellent one by Edith Simon called LUTHER ALIVE -- and I never read the Spong one cuz, well, cuz Spong is a tad liberal for me (That's an understatement).

 

Anyway, I just finished the Bainton HERE I STAND about Luther, and am now halfway through Spong's autobiography, also called HERE I STAND.

 

Spong aint no Luther.

 

 

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Origen
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4 minutes ago, Anto9us said:

A while back at a used bookstore -- I saw two different books both entitled HERE I STAND -- one was the very famous biography of Martin Luther by Roland Bainton, the other was the autobiography of John Shelby Spong!  

 

Well, I read neither for a long time -- the Luther biography I let sit a good while because I already had an excellent one by Edith Simon called LUTHER ALIVE -- and I never read the Spong one cuz, well, cuz Spong is a tad liberal for me (That's an understatement).

 

Anyway, I just finished the Bainton HERE I STAND about Luther, and am now halfway through Spong's autobiography, also called HERE I STAND.

 

Spong aint no Luther.

He ain't no Christian either.

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Anto9us

he also aint near the WRITER of those two biographers of Luther that I mentioned -- I recommend both those Luther books to anyone.

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Anto9us
On 6/20/2018 at 8:47 PM, Origen said:

He ain't no Christian either.

Upon finishing the Spong HERE I STAND, I certainly see nothing that contradicts what Origen posted.

 

It really UPSET me, reading the Spong book, I felt for Spong as a person when it talked of the mental illness of his first wife, but his CHURCHIANITY  is not CHRISTIANITY at all.

He denies core things of the faith.

And there is a very sloppy statement about the Creeds, i will post in next post - he doesn't even know Apostles from Nicene Creed, and doesn't really BELIEVE in either one...

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Anto9us

HERE I STAND, John Shelby Spong, Harper Collins Publishers, 2000, pg 243

 

"The Apostles Creed, which was basically shaped at the Council of Nicea in 325, incorporated the developing trinitarian formula.  But over that century its use did not preclude a wide variety of interpretations that those who framed the Apostles' Creed to create unity in the newly recognized faith of the empire had not anticipated.  Near the end of the fourth century, the Apostles' Creed was expanded to close loopholes and thus to exclude a wide variety of contending points of view.  That is why phrases describing Jesus as "God of God", "Light of Light", "very God of very God", "begotten, not made", and "of one substance with the Father" were included in the Nicene Creed.  The Creed was becoming more and more convoluted."

 

OK, what's wrong with this paragraph? Really - I should say - What is RIGHT in it?  Hardly anything.

 

I think the average poster on a Christian message board knows the difference between Apostles and Nicene Creed -- a Bishop for 25 years (at the time of the writing) obviously does not.

 

Apostles Creed had nothing to do with Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., was formed way earlier than that, origins going back to THE OLD ROMAN SYMBOL around 100 A.D.

Council of Nicea in 325 established first version of -- duh -- the NICENE CREED, expanded in 381 at Council of Constantinople.

 

This garbage is from a guy who WROTE A BOOK ON THE CREEDS, his book right before his autobiography, and he has the hubris to title his autobiography the same title as a famous biography of Luther.  Sheesh!

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Anto9us

Spong was a champion of race relations and getting women accepted into priesthood -- but it is his THEOLOGY that is abysmal.

 

It is a bunch of blasphemous bile belched out by the bad breath of Beelzebub; denying 'little things' of the faith like incarnation, resurrection, that Jesus actually said the Lord's Prayer, that God is a personal being AT ALL -- I mean, it's way out there.

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Christine

Whoa--thank you for letting us know these things--I know nothing of Spong, although I've met[online] a minister who thinks he's 'the bee's knees', so to speak[or, is it Spurgeon that he thinks that about?--not sure now!]--I still need to learn far more about Luther's life before I can ever say anything about him at all--most of what I do know about him has come from comments by Catholics--I view those comments as coming from someone they view as an enemy of sorts, so I ignore them.  

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Anto9us

Spurgeon and Spong would be like daylight and dark

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