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QuestionerReborn

Questions From a Pseudo-Forced Christian

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QuestionerReborn

Some background information: I was born into a Christian family, to a father who seems to have disappeared and a nigh-zealous mother. The day I was born, Mama had to drag me to church and more or less told me I had to be a Christian or I wasn't getting food that day and I would have to eat pee pee for lunch. She claimed that I was free to choose my religion, but would basically disown me if I chose my own path and would force me to church regardless of what my faith was.

 

You may be asking: what's your point? And my point is that my faith is starting to get shaken. After all, I didn't ask to get into this jig, and I'd have preferred it if mama would actually let me choose my own path. But I'm not here for pity. I'm here for questions, especially for someone whose faith wasn't exactly of their own choosing.

 

1) According to the Bible, God made people and the guy named Adam sinned. It is also supposedly true that God detests sin. So when Adam sinned, why didn't God just wind back time and remove the evil from Adam? And for that matter, why did God even give the tree the power to make Adam evil? If he hates sins so much, wouldn't it make sense to completely remove any possibility of sin and in the process avoid damning his children to hell? It seems like some sort of sadistic game – if Eden even existed.

 

2) If a person is schizophrenic (like my great uncle, who is going nuts) and is completely unable to understand what God was, would my uncle be sent to hell? After all, technically speaking, God is responsible for making that person born that way by genetics from birth or whatever – supposedly every person has a purpose on the earth, even if it's dying in the holocaust and being remembered as little more than a statistic and a quick joke for the atheists. So if my uncle was damned to hell because he was not capable of accepting God, then that doesn't seem very fair considering God made him that way in the first place. Why would God make my cousin this way? It's like telling a racer that they have to cross the finish line or else they'll go to hell, and then severing their arms and legs and expecting them to reach the finish line. Doesn't seem that justified.

 

3) If God loves all his children so much, then why would people in Africa continue to starve to death by the daily? I guess you could make the argument that those people are not Christian and therefore considered more evil than the combination of Stalin, Hitler, my father, and my 3rd grade teacher, but what about the Jews, people who did believe in God, dying in the Holocaust? Why would God allow that to happen?

 

4) On the topic of the Holocaust, if God hates evil so much, wouldn't it make sense for him to prevent it from happening in the first place? Especially to Jews, people who believe in him. Why has God turned his back on the evil in the world? How do you know he's there if mankind is continuously retrogressing morally?

 

5) If a kid was born on an island and basically lived alone until he died, and no one would visit him and tell him God existed, would he be sent to hell? After all, he never did get a chance to know God even existed – God never spoke to him, and never gave any indication he was around. So if he's sent to hell, that doesn't seem very fair.

 

6) Why is God so damn silent when I try to speak with him? I ask, daily, in this crisis of faith, ask him for something, anything to affirm my belief. But he's like my biological father – simply absent. So how do YOU know God is around? Do he speak to you?

 

7) This is moreso a question of how God's powers could possibly exist. If God made a shield that is guaranteed not to break against any spear attack and a spear that was guaranteed to break any shield, what would happen? Is infinite power even possible (as is in the spear's case)? And if infinite power is impossible, wouldn't that in turn limit God's power, which is said to be limitless?

 

These are some questions I had, and I would appreciate answers.

Edited by QuestionerReborn

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William
Staff
27 minutes ago, QuestionerReborn said:

1) According to the Bible, God made people and the guy named Adam sinned. It is also supposedly true that God detests sin. So when Adam sinned, why didn't God just wind back time and remove the evil from Adam? And for that matter, why did God even give the tree the power to make Adam evil? If he hates sins so much, wouldn't it make sense to completely remove any possibility of sin and in the process avoid damning his children to hell? It seems like some sort of sadistic game – if Eden even existed.

 

If you'll entertain me for a moment please review this very short video of Dr. R.C. Sproul answering a similar point in question:

 

 

After you review the video lemme know what you think. Does it offer a different perspective? 

 

I'll be happy to dialogue with you. I just wanted to start on the right foot.

 

By the way, welcome to Christforums. I hope your fellowship here is fruitful.

 

God bless,

William

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QuestionerReborn

The video certainly offers an intriguing viewpoint, especially the claim that the punishment Adam got wasn't particularly severe.

 

I mean, that's something I disagree with seeing as basically condemning someone to a life of suffering is worse than death in my viewpoint, and the god of the Old Testament was a very strict one – I mean, Moses was condemned to die in the desert for whacking a rock twice with his staff. I mean, say what you will about Joseph Stalin, but at least he never committed such a heinous crime. The god I saw in the Old Testament didn't seem particularly lenient and emphasized rather conservative observation of the law.

 

And on the topic of such a stern god, it also shows in the law where you must leave the corners of your crop fields unharvested so the poor could have them. It MUST be the corners. If I harvested the corners and left the center unharvested for the poor to eat, I still would be punished because I didn't leave the corners. If I forgot to harvest the corners for any reason, even if it's simply because I'm a human and I make mistakes, I would still be punished. It was around the New Testament where God stopped being about such conservative interpretations and started being more lenient, caring more about the why than the how (like when Jesus healed people on the Sabbath in defiance of the Sabbath forbidding all work).

 

Back to the video: the video seems to claim that God's punishment was very lenient (I still disagree with it, but whatever). I guess it does answer my first question to a point – the reason why God didn't wind back time is because he thought his punishment wasn't too harsh. Very well. Not something I agree with, but it is an answer I suppose.

 

Do you have anything to say about the other questions? I would like to hear about them if that's possible.

Edited by QuestionerReborn

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William
Staff
56 minutes ago, QuestionerReborn said:

Some background information: I was born into a Christian family, to a father who seems to have disappeared and a nigh-zealous mother. The day I was born, Mama had to drag me to church and more or less told me I had to be a Christian or I wasn't getting food that day and I would have to eat pee pee for lunch. She claimed that I was free to choose my religion, but would basically disown me if I chose my own path and would force me to church regardless of what my faith was.

In some ways I wish I had a mother like you. I think you'll find out in time with us that your mother is a fallible person which may of meant right for you. I know as a child we look at our parents differently or even hold them up to unobtainable standards. However, they are in need of as much grace as we are in need of grace from God. I was brought up unchurched and was in serious trouble with the law in my younger years. So much emphasis is given by today's society on learning from our own worldly experiences and resulting mistakes, but I'd rather give the time of day to those that were Scripturally raised and whose life was in obedience to the word of God.

 

56 minutes ago, QuestionerReborn said:

You may be asking: what's your point? And my point is that my faith is starting to get shaken. After all, I didn't ask to get into this jig, and I'd have preferred it if mama would actually let me choose my own path. But I'm not here for pity. I'm here for questions, especially for someone whose faith wasn't exactly of their own choosing.

It's okay to have a shaken faith. Even a questioning faith. Doubt even can serve a purpose. It is important to pray to God about your doubts. And if for any reason you wish not to pray then pray to God to take those reasons away.

 

56 minutes ago, QuestionerReborn said:

1) According to the Bible, God made people and the guy named Adam sinned. It is also supposedly true that God detests sin. So when Adam sinned, why didn't God just wind back time and remove the evil from Adam? And for that matter, why did God even give the tree the power to make Adam evil? If he hates sins so much, wouldn't it make sense to completely remove any possibility of sin and in the process avoid damning his children to hell? It seems like some sort of sadistic game – if Eden even existed.

 

Doesn't God do this? From Genesis 3:15 God's plan for our reedemer, that is Christ's coming was set into motion. Sanctification is the life long process of making one holy. Jesus doesn't just appease the wrath of God or cover our sins for us in our stead, but through faith we are adopted into the family of God. This is not to suggest that we do not experience chastisement (punishment) but that we do not experience God's wrath (Judgment). Only the Elect which believe in God have the right to be called children of God. I bring this up because a lot of people mistaken all of God's creation (mankind) for His children (believers). And you led me to believe that you think this because you said God damns His children to hell. God doesn't damn his children to hell. God makes them holy.

 

Having said that, my first impressions of what you wrote is that you're projecting upon God your human emotions and your own opinion of what Justice or even Love is. God is the standard bearer for His attributes: Holiness, Justice, Love, Mercy, Wrath, Grace, etc. Please consider what I wrote as it wasn't meant to be anything but sincere.

 

Now my apologies, as it is late for me where I am at. I must turn in but will later address some points you made. Hope some other members will engage you before morning.

 

God bless,

William

 

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QuestionerReborn

Very well, I appreciate the response. I don't expect an immediate response as you stated you have to turn in, so I'll leave you with this question for you to answer at your convenience.

 

I understand what you're trying to say – basically that God's master plan is to avail everyone of his wrath, and that I shouldn't look at God with my perspective, but rather his. Very well. But that still leaves my question shrouded in mystery. If God's master plan is to avail everyone of his wrath, then it would be the most logical choice to erase Adam's mistake right there and ensure every one of his children would become holy.

 

But God didn't do any of this. Why? I appreciate your response earlier basically talking about what God considered holy, but it still leaves me asking the aforementioned question. Or maybe there's something I don't quite understand.

 

Again, feel free to answer at your convenience, and thank you for your time. And I'd love to hear your opinion about the other questions as well.

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William
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1 hour ago, QuestionerReborn said:

But that still leaves my question shrouded in mystery. If God's master plan is to avail everyone of his wrath, then it would be the most logical choice to erase Adam's mistake right there and ensure every one of his children would become holy.

 

But God didn't do any of this. Why? I appreciate your response earlier basically talking about what God considered holy, but it still leaves me asking the aforementioned question. Or maybe there's something I don't quite understand.

You may want to read Romans chapter 9. God's plan doesn't save everyone. Though Christ's atonement is sufficient for the entire world, it is only efficient by design for the Elect. Not a drop of blood is gone to waste. In Romans 9, God makes some for honorable use and others for dishonorable use:

 

9 I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers,[a] my kinsmen according to the flesh. 4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

 

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

 

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

 

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

 

22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
    and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
    there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel[c] be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, 28 for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,

“If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring,
    we would have been like Sodom
    and become like Gomorrah.”

 

Israel's Unbelief

30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness[d] did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
    and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

 

I also appreciate your sincerity. Consider this, it seems that "others" are bothering your conscience. You are not their savior, there is only one savior, Jesus Christ. We all deserve to die right now for our sins, so as you awake tomorrow morning consider this, why are you alive for yet another day if not by the grace of God? Consider giving thanks to God for what you are given.

 

Really off to sleep now... .

 

God bless,

William

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larry2

Dear QuestionerReborn, welcome. I suspect that with the content of your questions, that you’ve been around the block so to speak in forums with similar beliefs as yours of God.

You seem determined to use lower font when spelling “God” in a place where we love Him, Who has saved us in spite of our wretchedness.

 

1Jn 4:9  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1Jn 4:10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

I’ll just mention the law you seem to have a problem with, in 2 Cor 3:7 it is called the “Ministration of Death, written and engraven in stones . .”  In other words, there is nothing about it meant to save us, but to make us aware of what we are, and that we need God's help. In fact that knowledge is said to be what separated them from God in Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. 

 

Dear friend, there is so much more that could be said to show the love God is showing us through grace, and I’m hopeful you’re here to hear and learn that for yourself. Even in Adam’s and Eve’s sin, God freely clothed them from their nakedness shedding blood to cover them with skins; a type of Jesus shedding His blood for us on the cross.

 

God loves you, and so do we; may you be blessed among us to find that to your good for eternity in Jesus’ name.

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Placable37
5 hours ago, QuestionerReborn said:

Some background information: I was born into a Christian family, to a father who seems to have disappeared and a nigh-zealous mother. The day I was born, Mama had to drag me to church and more or less told me I had to be a Christian or I wasn't getting food that day and I would have to eat pee pee for lunch. She claimed that I was free to choose my religion, but would basically disown me if I chose my own path and would force me to church regardless of what my faith was.

 

You may be asking: what's your point? And my point is that my faith is starting to get shaken. After all, I didn't ask to get into this jig, and I'd have preferred it if mama would actually let me choose my own path. But I'm not here for pity. I'm here for questions, especially for someone whose faith wasn't exactly of their own choosing.

 

1) According to the Bible, God made people and the guy named Adam sinned. It is also supposedly true that God detests sin. So when Adam sinned, why didn't God just wind back time and remove the evil from Adam? And for that matter, why did God even give the tree the power to make Adam evil? If he hates sins so much, wouldn't it make sense to completely remove any possibility of sin and in the process avoid damning his children to hell? It seems like some sort of sadistic game – if Eden even existed.

Here's the deal, QuestionerReborn,

 

"Adam sinned because he could,

God always knew he would,

But were it impossible to disobey,

And man was forced to love alway,

Then pleasure would not be the Father's option,

In those who never needed salvation."

 © Placable 

 

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Fireproof

Can I ask why the corners of the field are problematic? The reason I ask, is lets say I am poor and God has made such provision in his law that I could walk by peoples field and receive something to eat without question or condemnation (but mercy) because God made this provision to be obeyed (extending to me this mercy). I guess I would look at it as glad its the corners since I might be too proud to beg (not wanting to go on anothers land or have to beg another for the mercy to receive from them. Thy corners being as they were (and the poor being able to take from there) being the mercy of God for them. To me, it would seem to keep thanks to God (for remembering them) versus approaching man (to ask of him) and the thanks (due God) possibly being directed more to them then to God.

 

I guess I would think of it that way.

 

I am surprised you didnt bring in Amalek, but its sort of the same Amalek was not merciful to the weak so He would be at war with him forever and he would wipe him out, which also seems to mirror the merciful obtaining mercy (even there).

 

Edited by Fireproof

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Innerfire89

Your concept of who God is, is the core of the problem.  God knows and plans all things from being to end, God is the authority of what's right and wrong over everything in existence.

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