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Innerfire89

Word of faith movement.

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Innerfire89

WOF (Word of Faith) grew out of the Pentecostal movement, founder E.W. Kenyon studied under Phineas Quimby, an 18th century mesemerest, the belief that living things have a force that could be tapped into for healing.

 

WOF comes from a long line of false teachers,  WOF came in to popularity by Kenneth Hagin, and is taught by men like Kenneth Copland, Benny Hinn, all those clowns.

 

The basic teaching of WOF is that man was created as little gods, able to speak things in to existence, by speaking in faith the promises of Scripture become true and even God is subject to the laws of faith force. Meaning that God needs faith in order to be God.

 

WOF is just a repackaging of the same old satanic lie that man can be God.

God does not need Faith, he is the object of our faith! 

 

There are plenty of twisted Bible verses from WOF teachers, but the most common is Romans 4:17. The take and use "calleth those things which be not as though they were" but it's easy to see it is not man, but God who calls things that are not as though they were. God is the only creator, not man.

 

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

 

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Becky
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Our brothers and sister can be found where ever they are.  I do not understand God's Word the same today as in yesteryear. Hopefully i have grown in the Lord. 

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Innerfire89
12 minutes ago, Becky said:

Our brothers and sister can be found where ever they are.  I do not understand God's Word the same today as in yesteryear. Hopefully i have grown in the Lord. 

I'm not saying they're unredemmable or anything like that, but WOF needs to be exposed for what it is.

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Just Mike
34 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

I'm not saying they're unredemmable or anything like that, but WOF needs to be exposed for what it is.

I do not think anyone i irredeemable, except when they draw their last breath. Benny, Copland, Paula White,  and all those other false teachers still have the possibility, if its in Gods plans, to get saved. I wonder how far God will allow these people to go before their "seed faith" matures and grows up and eats then alive. Judgement awaits, no one will escape.  

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JoeyH

Word of Faith is a very dangerous false doctrine. This link has ex-pastors' testimonies.   https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com

 

I enjoyed John Samson's show too. http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/2014/09/11/9112014-confessions-of-a-former-word-of-faith-pastor-today-on-the-dividing-line/

 

WOF style beliefs I developed via listening to televangeli$ts contributed to a very bad and long period of unbelief. They are probably responsible for the shipwrecking of many people's faith. 

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Becky
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Good to know/learn of those coming out of that heresy :RpS_thumbsup:

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Innerfire89
11 hours ago, JoeyH said:

Word of Faith is a very dangerous false doctrine. This link has ex-pastors' testimonies.   https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com

 

I enjoyed John Samson's show too. http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/2014/09/11/9112014-confessions-of-a-former-word-of-faith-pastor-today-on-the-dividing-line/

 

WOF style beliefs I developed via listening to televangeli$ts contributed to a very bad and long period of unbelief. They are probably responsible for the shipwrecking of many people's faith. 

When I first started following Christ I had a few unbiblical ideas from watching the junk on TBN, but a good dose of Scripture and expository preaching cleared that up, I thank Christ for guiding me.

 

 

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Just Mike
8 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

When I first started following Christ I had a few unbiblical ideas from watching the junk on TBN, but a good dose of Scripture and expository preaching cleared that up, I thank Christ for guiding me.

 

 

Many people have shipwrecked the faith following WOF. How very sad in deed.  Often you will see these WOF preachers have no Theological education, just winging it on their own making money on Cd's and books. Joel Osteen is just one huge example, Joyce Meyers is one of the most wealthy WOF of all.

 

By the way If I start selling books and tapes how many will you buy?

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Innerfire89
6 minutes ago, Just Mike said:

Many people have shipwrecked the faith following WOF. How very sad in deed.  Often you will see these WOF preachers have no Theological education, just winging it on their own making money on Cd's and books. Joel Osteen is just one huge example, Joyce Meyers is one of the most wealthy WOF of all.

 

By the way If I start selling books and tapes how many will you buy?

I don't know if WOF teahers get their sermons from someone else or all of them are intentionally lying, but they dont just pull scripture out of context, they take sentences out the context of single verses. There's no way to interpret Scripture the way they do without seeing the interpretation is wrong.

 

 

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Becky
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Something that saddens me deeply is how many of them have roots in the Assemblies of God organisation . The church i grew up in. In the 50s  i doubt any one could beat the AoG for its Sunday School lessons.. That is now a generation ago sorta .. 

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Truthfrees
On 5/10/2018 at 1:49 PM, Innerfire89 said:

WOF (Word of Faith) grew out of the Pentecostal movement, founder E.W. Kenyon studied under Phineas Quimby, an 18th century mesemerest, the belief that living things have a force that could be tapped into for healing.

 

WOF comes from a long line of false teachers,  WOF came in to popularity by Kenneth Hagin, and is taught by men like Kenneth Copland, Benny Hinn, all those clowns.

 

The basic teaching of WOF is that man was created as little gods, able to speak things in to existence, by speaking in faith the promises of Scripture become true and even God is subject to the laws of faith force. Meaning that God needs faith in order to be God.

 

WOF is just a repackaging of the same old satanic lie that man can be God.

God does not need Faith, he is the object of our faith! 

 

There are plenty of twisted Bible verses from WOF teachers, but the most common is Romans 4:17. The take and use "calleth those things which be not as though they were" but it's easy to see it is not man, but God who calls things that are not as though they were. God is the only creator, not man.

 

Stay strong in Christ and be blessed.

 

i am word of faith and what you have said is not at all accurate - outsiders often get word of faith and it's origins confused

 

ORIGINS

k.e. hagin was an ordained southern baptist minister who was given the left foot of fellowship when he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit - he fellowshipped with the pentecostals and then several years later started wof based on his interaction with God and Mark 11:22-24 - his contemporary e.w. kenyon has a lot in common with wof but he did not start wof

 

WOF BASIS

Jesus says you have what you say believe and think - Mark 11:22-24  - this is what word of faith is

 

word of faith is also based on Genesis 1:26 - Genesis 1:1-31 - John 14:12

 

the simple version is - take dominion of the earth - Genesis 1:26 - with God's power using God's words to do as Jesus commanded - John 14:12

 

you may disagree with this basic principle but that is the nature of denominations - we all think something different and congregate with those of like mind

 

WOF IN ACTION

1. so how do wof live? - pray and seek God - do/say what He says - God makes things happen

 

2. what part does God's Word play? - God's Power is inherent in His Word (Hebrews 4:12) - so fill up your mind and heart with God's Words

 

3. what part does faith play? - God gives to everyone THE measure of faith (Romans 12:3) - faith activates via hearing and hearing God's words (Romans 10:17)  - so fill up with God's words (Joshua 1:8) and choose to believe God over your fickle feelings and shifting thoughts

 

4. what part does speaking play? - Mark 11:22-24 says if you believe God meant what He said you will speak in line with God's words and God's words will happen for you - if you don't believe God meant what He said you will end up saying things that contradict God's words - we all end up with the things we say/believe/think as per Mark 11:22-24  - so choose to believe God only - Joshua 24:15

 

5. if you want to have the things God promised BUT you don't believe it will happen for you YOU and GOD will need to spend more time together to deal with the issue of why you don't believe God means what HE says (Mark 9:24) - and this is the beginning of the wof life - dealing directly with God so that you can end up believing God meant what He said - and as you grow stronger in believing God you will see better results in your life

 

6. you don't make anything happen - God makes it happen - as per Mark 11:22-24

 

7. many prosperity preachers are falsely considered wof - wof and prosperity teaching seem similar but they are different - wof is faith in God's words with corresponding action - prosperity is seed faith doctrine (give to get) - prosperity doctrine is often twisted into "give to me and God will give back to you" which draws much criticism - farmers give to get when they plant - so seed faith does work - i and many of my friends family have seen seed faith work - but our seed faith was directed by God - God told us what to do and who to give to - and He rewarded us - many of us have also had the misfortune of following the direction of man - that does not work - follow only God's directions

 

God Bless you

 

 

 

 

 

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Truthfrees
On 5/11/2018 at 12:28 AM, JoeyH said:

Word of Faith is a very dangerous false doctrine. This link has ex-pastors' testimonies.   https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfoblog.com

 

I enjoyed John Samson's show too. http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/2014/09/11/9112014-confessions-of-a-former-word-of-faith-pastor-today-on-the-dividing-line/

 

WOF style beliefs I developed via listening to televangeli$ts contributed to a very bad and long period of unbelief. They are probably responsible for the shipwrecking of many people's faith. 

i have the opposite story - i was opposed to wof and seed faith and actively spoke against it everywhere - trying to get my family and friends free from what i considered a "love of money doctrine"

 

in the end i had a damascus experience and God led me into real wof - and my life dramatically changed for the better by being wof

 

i am still learning wof but i get way more of my prayers answered simply because i learned to seek God wof style - believe whatever He says - and take action wof style with the authority Jesus gave me (Luke 10:19 - Mark 11:22-24) and God gave me (Genesis 1:26)

 

i only listen to the wof teachers God leads me to - copeland hagin capps winston savelle are the ones that i listen to

 

i hated copeland prior to becoming wof - and guess who God used to bring my life into a new depth of victory and success? - poetic justice i guess - what i have learned is hate no one and follow God

 

i don't know why i hated wof - it just seemed/sounded wrong to me - and i refused to study it for that reason - so all my hatred was based on misinformation and lack of information

 

my life was in crisis when God miraculously led me to listen to copeland - and every program i listened to helped me even though i was opposed to wof - it was strange but copeland's messages directly dealt with my exact problems yet i still didn't trust him - and i certainly disliked his loud noxious preaching style

 

for the first 2 years i listened to copeland as per God's instructions i argued with God repeatedly about what copeland was teaching - yet each time God explained using scripture what copeland was saying - basically my doctrines were not at all Genesis 1:26 and Mark 11:22-24 based - i had a different "anything that happens is God's will" paradigm that opposed what copeland was saying - basically i totally misunderstood what copeland was saying until God explained wof doctrine to me

 

what i learned from all this is to seek God about everything from now on because my own understanding is not reliable

 

i am blessed and thank God for showing me the truth about wof - i wish i would have understood wof sooner - but the doctrines i grew up with caused me to oppose wof - and i needed God to reprogram me so that i could understand and live a wof life

 

i understand if you think differently - but the things you think about wof are wrong

 

God bless you

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Innerfire89
4 hours ago, Truthfrees said:

i am word of faith and what you have said is not at all accurate - outsiders often get word of faith and it's origins confused

 

ORIGINS

k.e. hagin was an ordained southern baptist minister who was given the left foot of fellowship when he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit - he fellowshipped with the pentecostals and then several years later started wof based on his interaction with God and Mark 11:22-24 - his contemporary e.w. kenyon has a lot in common with wof but he did not start wof

 

WOF BASIS

Jesus says you have what you say believe and think - Mark 11:22-24  - this is what word of faith is

 

word of faith is also based on Genesis 1:26 - Genesis 1:1-31 - John 14:12

 

the simple version is - take dominion of the earth - Genesis 1:26 - with God's power using God's words to do as Jesus commanded - John 14:12

 

you may disagree with this basic principle but that is the nature of denominations - we all think something different and congregate with those of like mind

 

WOF IN ACTION

1. so how do wof live? - pray and seek God - do/say what He says - God makes things happen

 

2. what part does God's Word play? - God's Power is inherent in His Word (Hebrews 4:12) - so fill up your mind and heart with God's Words

 

3. what part does faith play? - God gives to everyone THE measure of faith (Romans 12:3) - faith activates via hearing and hearing God's words (Romans 10:17)  - so fill up with God's words (Joshua 1:8) and choose to believe God over your fickle feelings and shifting thoughts

 

4. what part does speaking play? - Mark 11:22-24 says if you believe God meant what He said you will speak in line with God's words and God's words will happen for you - if you don't believe God meant what He said you will end up saying things that contradict God's words - we all end up with the things we say/believe/think as per Mark 11:22-24  - so choose to believe God only - Joshua 24:15

 

5. if you want to have the things God promised BUT you don't believe it will happen for you YOU and GOD will need to spend more time together to deal with the issue of why you don't believe God means what HE says (Mark 9:24) - and this is the beginning of the wof life - dealing directly with God so that you can end up believing God meant what He said - and as you grow stronger in believing God you will see better results in your life

 

6. you don't make anything happen - God makes it happen - as per Mark 11:22-24

 

7. many prosperity preachers are falsely considered wof - wof and prosperity teaching seem similar but they are different - wof is faith in God's words with corresponding action - prosperity is seed faith doctrine (give to get) - prosperity doctrine is often twisted into "give to me and God will give back to you" which draws much criticism - farmers give to get when they plant - so seed faith does work - i and many of my friends family have seen seed faith work - but our seed faith was directed by God - God told us what to do and who to give to - and He rewarded us - many of us have also had the misfortune of following the direction of man - that does not work - follow only God's directions

 

God Bless you

 

 

 

 

 

A lot to cover there, some points I'll probably touch on in a new thread.

 

Matthew 11:23 has to be understood in contex, the disiples just failed to cast out a demon for lack of faith, Jesus is comparing that obstical to moving a mountain. Matthew 11:23 isn't teaching that we will have absolutely whatever we ask, we could be asking wrongly, James 4:3.

 

In John 14:12, the way that the works are greater are in trems of reach, the discples works would be world wide.

 

As for seed faith, that is also in error. The intention for giving is receiving instead of love and obedience. And it's always giving to get things in this life, example: give a big offering, get financial gain.

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Innerfire89
3 hours ago, Truthfrees said:

i have the opposite story - i was opposed to wof and seed faith and actively spoke against it everywhere - trying to get my family and friends free from what i considered a "love of money doctrine"

 

in the end i had a damascus experience and God led me into real wof - and my life dramatically changed for the better by being wof

 

i am still learning wof but i get way more of my prayers answered simply because i learned to seek God wof style - believe whatever He says - and take action wof style with the authority Jesus gave me (Luke 10:19 - Mark 11:22-24) and God gave me (Genesis 1:26)

 

i only listen to the wof teachers God leads me to - copeland hagin capps winston savelle are the ones that i listen to

 

i hated copeland prior to becoming wof - and guess who God used to bring my life into a new depth of victory and success? - poetic justice i guess - what i have learned is hate no one and follow God

 

i don't know why i hated wof - it just seemed/sounded wrong to me - and i refused to study it for that reason - so all my hatred was based on misinformation and lack of information

 

my life was in crisis when God miraculously led me to listen to copeland - and every program i listened to helped me even though i was opposed to wof - it was strange but copeland's messages directly dealt with my exact problems yet i still didn't trust him - and i certainly disliked his loud noxious preaching style

 

for the first 2 years i listened to copeland as per God's instructions i argued with God repeatedly about what copeland was teaching - yet each time God explained using scripture what copeland was saying - basically my doctrines were not at all Genesis 1:26 and Mark 11:22-24 based - i had a different "anything that happens is God's will" paradigm that opposed what copeland was saying - basically i totally misunderstood what copeland was saying until God explained wof doctrine to me

 

what i learned from all this is to seek God about everything from now on because my own understanding is not reliable

 

i am blessed and thank God for showing me the truth about wof - i wish i would have understood wof sooner - but the doctrines i grew up with caused me to oppose wof - and i needed God to reprogram me so that i could understand and live a wof life

 

i understand if you think differently - but the things you think about wof are wrong

 

God bless you

Kenneth Copeland is without a doubt a false teacher, just recently I watched one of his sermons where he told his congregation that if they only had $50,000.00 

in thier bank account they were broke becase they lacked faith.

In another sermon he twisted scripture to say that faith is a power that God taps into to create and we can do the same thing. 

 

He even goes as far to call God a failure! That's blasphemy!

 

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Truthfrees
32 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

A lot to cover there, some points I'll probably touch on in a new thread.

 

Matthew 11:23 has to be understood in contex, the disiples just failed to cast out a demon for lack of faith, Jesus is comparing that obstical to moving a mountain. Matthew 11:23 isn't teaching that we will have absolutely whatever we ask, we could be asking wrongly, James 4:3.

 

In John 14:12, the way that the works are greater are in trems of reach, the discples works would be world wide.

 

As for seed faith, that is also in error. The intention for giving is receiving instead of love and obedience. And it's always giving to get things in this life, example: give a big offering, get financial gain.

i understand what you are saying but disagree

 

give and it shall be given to you - Luke 6:38

 

if you give knowing it will be given back because God says it will be given back i can't see anything wrong with that

 

it's a matter of taking God's words at face value

 

if you do want to start another thread alert me and i will post there instead of here

 

God bless you

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Truthfrees
2 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

Kenneth Copeland is without a doubt a false teacher, just recently I watched one of his sermons where he told his congregation that if they only had $50,000.00 

in thier bank account they were broke becase they lacked faith.

In another sermon he twisted scripture to say that faith is a power that God taps into to create and we can do the same thing. 

 

He even goes as far to call God a failure! That's blasphemy!

 

if a person edits a person's sermon it causes his words to be out of context and changes the whole meaning

 

many people do that to copeland - and then others watch the edited version - totally unfair

 

i understand if a person does not want to watch copeland - but then also don't watch a misleading edited version of what he said

 

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reformed baptist
8 minutes ago, Truthfrees said:

i understand what you are saying but disagree

 

give and it shal be given to you - Luke 6:38

 

if you give knowing it will be given back because God says it will be given back i can't see anything wrong with that

 

it's a matter of taking God's words at face value

 

if you do want to start another thread alert me and i will post there instead of here

 

God bless you

If we are taking God's word 'at face value' surely that involves reading it in context, and not separating  a handful of words from that context. 

 

 36 "Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
 37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
 38 "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
 39 And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? (Luk 6:36-39 NKJ)

 

It seems to me that Luke 6:38 comes in the context of judging/ showing mercy - and Jesus is promising us that if we judge others harshly then we can expect a harsh judgement ourselves, however if we show mercy we can expect mercy. 

 

Now, I don't wish to tar all WoF church members with the same brush - like any denomination there will be those genuinely saved and those who are lost (there will be good and bad) - I do however believe it is a deeply comprised denomination that puts far too much emphasis on success in this life, and bases that upon the strenght of ones faith - it seems to me that Christianity is about taking our eyes of this world, and fixing them on Christ and salvation is about God's faithfulness, rather then ours.   

 

 

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Truthfrees
36 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

As for seed faith, that is also in error. The intention for giving is receiving instead of love and obedience. And it's always giving to get things in this life, example: give a big offering, get financial gain.

you make it sound like either or - why can't it be both?

 

before i was wof i gave expecting nothing back - and guess what - i got nothing back - i gave because i wanted to obey and because i loved God and other people

 

after becoming wof i gave for those same reasons AND i expected something back - guess what - i got something back

 

so i and the wof i know give for love and obedience AND also expect something back - because God says he who gives will recieve back

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Truthfrees
13 minutes ago, reformed baptist said:

If we are taking God's word 'at face value' surely that involves reading it in context, and not separating  a handful of words from that context. 

 

 36 "Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
 37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
 38 "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
 39 And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? (Luk 6:36-39 NKJ)

 

It seems to me that Luke 6:38 comes in the context of judging/ showing mercy - and Jesus is promising us that if we judge others harshly then we can expect a harsh judgement ourselves, however if we show mercy we can expect mercy. 

 

Now, I don't wish to tar all WoF church members with the same brush - like any denomination there will be those genuinely saved and those who are lost (there will be good and bad) - I do however believe it is a deeply comprised denomination that puts far too much emphasis on success in this life, and bases that upon the strenght of ones faith - it seems to me that Christianity is about taking our eyes of this world, and fixing them on Christ and salvation is about God's faithfulness, rather then ours.   

 

 

i understand and do not wish to attack your interpretation - because you live your life to please God - as do i

 

so if you limit the interpretation to only mercy that is fine - nothing wrong with that

 

if i don't limit the interpretation to only mercy and take the whole chapter of Luke 6:1-49 as a mini-Torah list as per Deuteronomy 28:1-68 which includes many topics including sowing and reaping then why is my more inclusive interpretation wrong and your limited interpretation correct?

 

 

 

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Innerfire89
24 minutes ago, Truthfrees said:

if a person edits a person's sermon it causes his words to be out of context and changes the whole meaning

 

many people do that to copeland - and then others watch the edited version - totally unfair

 

i understand if a person does not want to watch copeland - but then also don't watch a misleading edited version of what he said

 

I've watched a few of his full sermons. I don't see how anything else he could say would change that he called God a failure.

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Truthfrees
16 minutes ago, reformed baptist said:

Now, I don't wish to tar all WoF church members with the same brush - like any denomination there will be those genuinely saved and those who are lost (there will be good and bad) - I do however believe it is a deeply comprised denomination that puts far too much emphasis on success in this life, and bases that upon the strenght of ones faith - it seems to me that Christianity is about taking our eyes of this world, and fixing them on Christ and salvation is about God's faithfulness, rather then ours.   

i understand - i thought that also before i understood what copeland was really saying

 

capps says that people argue with us based on what they thought we said rather than what we really said - this really is what is going on with those who oppose copeland capps savelle hagin winston

 

you are not wof - you do not know what wof really teach or believe - and it takes a lot of study to shift paradigms to the Genesis 1:26 mentality

 

i studied wof for 2 years with God's help and resisted right till the end when i finally got what wof was really saying

 

i think the main reason i resisted so long is because i was not a bold person - i never promoted myself and was totally opposed to it

 

i still don't like it at all - but God is working with me to help me step out in boldness in God rather than self - i act bold because God tells me to - not because i like it - and you know what - obeying God outside of my comfort zone brings such awesome results that it is worth it to be uncomfortable

 

God has told me to do so many things that i was cringing about but i obeyed and it succeeded

 

so i'm done with my own ideas - obeying God works - i remember the misery i was in when i was too humble to obey God - too shy and scared to obey God - not going back to that ever - best for me to keep doing what God says - and God is awesome - when He tells me to do something He gives me plenty of time to make sure it is really Him telling me to do it - He never pushes me - He allows me to keep seeking Him until i KNOW for sure i understand what He wants - and on the rare occassion i still get it wrong God helps me get it right

 

stepping out in faith and obedience is an adventure - scary but well worth it

 

God bless you my friend

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Truthfrees
32 minutes ago, Innerfire89 said:

I've watched a few of his full sermons. I don't see how anything else he could say would change that he called God a failure.

he never called God a failure - he says all the time that we are the ones who fail - never God - that is the problem with edited 1 minute sound bites out of context

 

these specific soundbites sound like they come from his teaching that it's not over til it's over - meaning that even if it looks like a failure it isn't if you trust God and don't quit believing and standing in faith in God - because God will do what He said He would do

 

you have to ask a person why they make a 1 minute collage rather than giving us the whole video and telling us to tune in at minute x - could it be because they don't want us to really hear what copeland said? - don't trust sound bite videos my friend - the author is up to no good to do such a thing

Edited by Truthfrees

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Becky
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When the hospitals where these guys live are empty , they may have some creditabilty. 

 

 

 

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Truthfrees
14 minutes ago, Becky said:

When the hospitals where these guys live are empty , they may have some creditabilty. 

 

 

 

clearing out hospitals is an awesome goal but are you saying that the many that get healed now are nothing to you? -

 

is it nothing to God?

 

do not despise the day of small beginnings - Zechariah 4:10

 

we grow in Christ until we reach His level - Proverbs 4:18 - John 14:12

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Truthfrees

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Becky
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Nope. I said , When the hospitals where these guys live are empty, they may have some creditabilty.

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