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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Innerfire89

Experimental predestinarianism?

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1 minute ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

You are making no sense. I repeat to you the challenge I threw down to Matthew Duvall. If you have direct access to the mind of God, tell me the date of my death. Otherwise, case closed.

I see no evidence that you're alive.

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37 minutes ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

Quite right. I died on 25 March last year. How clever of you to know that.

Eastern, Central, or Pacific Time? Are you sure the 25th of March? According to which time zone? You cannot possibly know which time God goes by.

5 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

Then tell me, which year has he pencilled in for me to leave this mortal coil?

Since you are going by the flesh and want to know the death of your flesh why don't you ask your flesh? It is amazing to me that flesh can even type out a sentence.

 

11 hours ago, Matthew Duvall said:

All true believers have access to the mind of God. His Word in Christ and written form ,the Bible, clearly reveal it. But if we do not possess the indwelling Holy Spirit we can never know God. " Verily, verily I say unto you , unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Jn.3:3

LOL You're talking to a corpse!

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6 minutes ago, William said:

Eastern, Central, or Pacific Time? Are you sure the 25th of March? According to which time zone? You cannot possibly know which time God goes by.

Can I play? I know.  Divine time!!!

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23 minutes ago, Origen said:

Can I play? I know.  Divine time!!!

Born again believers shouldn't doubt that they've died to the flesh and were made alive being born from above.

 

What a fleshy question, shouldn't the flesh have vital signs as to show that the flesh is alive and or may live for such a length in duration (minus unnatural causes)? I don't see why people believe no vitals exist as to the spiritual condition or evidence of eternal life given by God. Perhaps they ought quit asking Joe Bloggs!

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5 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

Then tell me, which year has he pencilled in for me to leave this mortal coil?

 

56 minutes ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

You are making no sense. I repeat to you the challenge I threw down to Matthew Duvall. If you have direct access to the mind of God, tell me the date of my death. Otherwise, case closed.

What childish responses to the Word of God. The Scriptures are not about us they are of Him. When we allow ourselves to be the center of our universe ourselves is all we have. Christ and Him crucified is the center of a Christians life on earth.  Christ in us the hope of Glory.  Attitudes like the one you display bring to mind the Words of Christ 

Mar_6:11  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. 

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21 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

I haven’t gone back to being an atheist any time in the last almost forty years, and I have no immediate plans for doing so. But, like Joe Bloggs, I do not possess a crystal ball, and I have no direct access to the mind of God.

I pray for your soul, that you, also, might be indwelt with the presence of Ruach (a.k.a. the Holy Spirit) as all Saved Persons, according to Rom. 8:9 and Indwelt as am I.

 

16  Bible Verses about

ALL

Indwelling Of The Holy Spirit

Most Relevant Verses

1 Corinthians 3:16

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16

Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Ezekiel 36:27

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Isaiah 63:11

 

Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,

2 Timothy 1:14

Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Acts 6:5

The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

Ephesians 5:18

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Romans 8:11

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Galatians 5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Romans 8:9

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

Galatians 4:6

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

1 John 2:27

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

 

My thanks to

BIBLE.KNOWING-JESUS.COM

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Knowing Jesus for the assembly of these verses.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, William said:

And since Jesus is not the Logos knowing Jesus is not knowing the Father. Since Jesus is not the Logos we cannot know the mind of God. What you call a splurge is correct, you're mistaking the mind of God with God's secret will.

So God’s will, secret or otherwise, has nothing to do with his mind?

 

Whatever terminology you care to use, only God knows whether I will still be a Christian the day that I die. I do not know that, and you do not know that. If you want to say that becoming apostate would mean that I was never elect to begin with, fine. In God’s eyes that might even be true - after all he has known the end from the beginning. I may know the beginning, but I do not know the end.

Edited by ThyWordisTruth

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3 hours ago, th1bill said:

I pray for your soul, that you, also, might be indwelt with the presence of Ruach (a.k.a. the Holy Spirit) as all Saved Persons, according to Rom. 8:9 and Indwelt as am I.

 

16  Bible Verses about

ALL

Indwelling Of The Holy Spirit

Most Relevant Verses

1 Corinthians 3:16

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 6:19

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16

Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Ezekiel 36:27

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

Isaiah 63:11

 

Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,

2 Timothy 1:14

Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Acts 6:5

The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch.

Ephesians 5:18

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Romans 8:11

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 16:13

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Galatians 5:18

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 5:22

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Romans 8:9

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Romans 8:15

For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

Galatians 4:6

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

1 John 2:27

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

 

My thanks to

BIBLE.KNOWING-JESUS.COM

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Knowing Jesus for the assembly of these verses.

So what has any of that got to do with the possibility of self deception?

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3 hours ago, Becky said:

 

What childish responses to the Word of God. The Scriptures are not about us they are of Him.

Well you don’t say.

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1 hour ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

So God’s will, secret or otherwise, has nothing to do with his mind?

As I said if you were remotely consistent you'd have to reject Jesus as the Logos. However, since you don't know the mind of God we'll have to wait to see if you're saved by your contradictions. You should start your own blog. May I recommend a name for it?

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4 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

You are making no sense. I repeat to you the challenge I threw down to Matthew Duvall. If you have direct access to the mind of God, tell me the date of my death. Otherwise, case closed.

You're an idiot.

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15 minutes ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

Nice of you to say so.

No problem, I don't believe in being nice if it is deceptive.

 

If we don't know the mind of God one day we might meet Him and He may sound like an embecile with finger to lip. How can you say God is rational, logical, intelligent etc unless you know the mind of God?

 

Jesus did not know the day and hour, therefore by your logic He does not know the mind of God. 

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3 minutes ago, William said:

No problem, I don't believe in being nice if it is deceptive.

 

Jesus did not know the day and hour, therefore by your logic He does not know the mind of God. 

If Jesus did not know the day and hour, then by definition, he did not know the mind of the Father on that subject.

 

Maybe you put that down to the fact that he was speaking as the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity, or maybe you leave the seeming paradox unresolved.

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1 minute ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

If Jesus did not know the day and hour, then by definition, he did not know the mind of the Father on that subject.

 

Maybe you put that down to the fact that he was speaking as the incarnate Second Person of the Trinity, or maybe you leave the seeming paradox unresolved.

There you go! Rejecting the very Logos! 

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Just now, William said:

There you go! Rejecting the very Logos! 

I am not rejecting anything. If Jesus self professedly didn’t know the mind of his Father on a subject, then he didn’t know the mind of his Father on a subject.

 

I mean, A implies A. The logic could hardly be more elementary, could it?

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22 minutes ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

I am not rejecting anything. If Jesus self professedly didn’t know the mind of his Father on a subject, then he didn’t know the mind of his Father on a subject.

 

I mean, A implies A. The logic could hardly be more elementary, could it?

What do you mean by if? If you don't know the Word of God then you don't know the mind of God. And you're changing your definition. By your logic the finite cannot know the infinite therefore the finite cannot know anything about the infinite. The very spurge you ruled out says even the Father held secret the day from Jesus.

 

The Logos is the very inward thought of the Father spoken forth into the perfect image made manifest and incarnate. 

 

The Logos was with God, that is distinct from the Father, the Logos was God, the very Wisdom, Logic, and Intelligence etc of the Godhead, the creative agent behind all of creation. If you have seen the Son you've seen the Father, but the Father is spirit so how have we known Him?

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7 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

So what has any of that got to do with the possibility of self deception?

Why are you not dealing with the subject.  None of the persons conversing with you appreciate the divisive diversion tactics so loved and so often observed among the devotees of Socialism.  We give direct responses and expect the same..

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, th1bill said:

Why are you not dealing with the subject.  None of the persons conversing with you appreciate the divisive diversion tactics so loved and so often observed among the devotees of Socialism.  We give direct responses and expect the same..

Only an American could turn a theological argument into a tirade against “socialism”.

Edited by ThyWordisTruth

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13 hours ago, William said:

What do you mean by if? If you don't know the Word of God then you don't know the mind of God.

“If Trump said Brexit was no problem for Ireland then he is a complete.....”

 

Oops, what do I mean by ‘if?’ Don’t I know what it said on the BBC website?

 

’bye, y’all.

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On 6/5/2019 at 3:37 AM, ThyWordisTruth said:

Then tell me, which year has he pencilled in for me to leave this mortal coil?

When humans make plans they sometimes use pencils because they know they may change their plans and have to erase what they have written.  That never happens with God.  If he writes down what he is going to do he uses indelible ink because he knows his plans will never have to be changed.

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12 hours ago, th1bill said:

Why are you not dealing with the subject.  None of the persons conversing with you appreciate the divisive diversion tactics so loved and so often observed among the devotees of Socialism.  We give direct responses and expect the same..

 

6 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

Only an American could turn a theological argument into a tirade against “socialism”.

 

5 hours ago, ThyWordisTruth said:

“If Trump said Brexit was no problem for Ireland then he is a complete.....”

 

Oops, what do I mean by ‘if?’ Don’t I know what it said on the BBC website?

 

’bye, y’all.

Proved your point @th1bill 🙂

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I spent two years in Europe and I proved myself a Sinner Extraordinaire, worthy of being listed Paul's right hand man, in the arenas built by the Former Angel, Lucifer and hie Fallen Followers.   I, an Atheist, often stood with my mouth agape at Local Pubs, Clubs, Trink Halles and such.  I did learn, from that adventure, that there are Boat Loads of False Christian Teachers in every city and most villages on the continent.

 

This struggling gent, I think, defined himself as finding the American Christian beneath his station with his, tired and overused preface, "Only an American..." as most Europeans view their counterparts from this side of the pond.  Seems like some flavor of a Brit.  Their flavor of acceptable Christianity clashes with American and World Wide Basic Christianity just as hard and just as legless as does the Radical Holiness Movements, the New Testament Only Movements, the Sermon on The Mount Only Movements, found in our nation, disagrees with the Biblical Christianity we strive to live.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 8:17 AM, ThyWordisTruth said:

Matthew Duvall’s splurg about God revealing his will, in general terms, in scripture, was irrelevant to whether his will for a particular individual can be known - which had been the question in debate. Except in the circumstance of a special revelation to that individual, it cannot be known.

 

Even God’s general will can only be known insofar as he chooses to reveal it, so the idea that the Bible provides the answer to every question relating to the mind of God is fallacious.

I don't believe there is anything in holy writ that does not reveal the mind and will of God.  In other words there is not a single thing in the bible that should be estranged from any of God's true people . If it hasn't been said in Christ or written in holy writ , it isn't there ! Sin entered into the world because of the disobedience of one man . Was he not forewarned of what would happen if he and his wife ate of the forbidden fruit ? " And the woman said unto the serpent , We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden . But of the fruit of the tree which is in the mist of the garden ,God hath said ,Ye shall not eat of it ,neither shall ye touch it ,lest ye die." Gen.3:2,3. Did not God reveal his mind and will to His first two human creations ? And aren't we seeing the results of that fall to this day ?  God's will and mind was revealed in the prophets of old . Israel, being warned through them of what would happen if they disobeyed God's law . And the evidence of their disobedience was experienced by them being captives in pagan lands by a godless people . Was God not justified in punishing them after they heard Him reveal His  mind and will through the prophets ? In the new testament God's mind was revealed in Christ .There was no excuse for not obeying what Christ taught the multiple numbers of people who listened to Him. And it doesn't end there . Isn't the mind of God revealed by his holy spirit as He revealed it to the apostles ?

Btw, no one knows when they are going to die . They just know that they are going to die !  

Edited by Matthew Duvall

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