Jump to content

SovereignGraceSingles

Welcome to SovereignGraceSingles.com. Where Reformed Faith and Romance Come Together! We are the only Christian dating website for Christian Singles in the Reformed Faith worldwide. Our focus is to bring together Christian singles of all ages. Reformed single Christian men and women who wish to meet other Reformed Christian singles for spiritually, like-minded, loving relationships.

SovereignGraceSingles

Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” - Genesis 2:18

SovereignGraceSingles

Meet Like Minded Believers Can two walk together except they be agreed? - Amos 3:3

SovereignGraceSingles

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

SovereignGraceSingles

SGS offers a "fenced" community: both for private single members and also a public Protestant forums open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene-derived Christian Church.
Faber

May 14, 2018 (70 years)

Recommended Posts

Faber

In less than 2 weeks it will be 70 years since Israel became a nation. 

 

Does this relate at all to Daniel's 70th week?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
davidtaylorjr

I don't think so. I think that tends to be reading into the text a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
deade

Israel is not prophetic Israel. 

 

Gen. 48:15, 16 "And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, the Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." 

 

The Big No Smiley Face, Emoticon

Share this post


Link to post
Becky
Moderator

When was Israel not a nation? 

Are the boarders of the land Israel the ones given to Abraham ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Bull of the Woods

I wouldn't want to say I know what's what there. My impression is they are more a secular entity that was formed where they are due to the racial/ethnic hatred they received especially from Nazi Germany. But I can be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
theophilus
17 hours ago, Becky said:

When was Israel not a nation? 

Are the boarders of the land Israel the ones given to Abraham ? 

Not yet, but the land is withing the land promised to Abraham.  The promise won't be completely fulfilled until Christ returns to begin his thousand year reign. 

Share this post


Link to post
Becky
Moderator

Gen 17:8  And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 

 

Why do they not have the land today when  God said it was ever lasting?

 

My answer:

The covenant with Abraham was conditional :

Gen 17:10  This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 
Gen 17:11  And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 

Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 
Gen 26:5  Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. 

Lev 26:39  And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them. 
Lev 26:40  If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me; 
Lev 26:41  And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: 
 

Deu 7:9  Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; 
Deu 7:10  And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face. 
Deu 7:11  Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them. 
Deu 7:12  Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers: 

 

 

God keeps His covenants. 

 

Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. 
Jos 21:44  And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 
Jos 21:45  There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. 

 

We fail to keep our end of the covenants

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
On 5/1/2018 at 4:06 PM, Faber said:

In less than 2 weeks it will be 70 years since Israel became a nation. 

Does this relate at all to Daniel's 70th week?

 

Is Israel of today the nation God will call His inheritance (Isa 19:25)? I do believe God is preparing those involved for the coming end time with the moving of borders, and peoples. I think we are nearing the end.

 

Rom 9:6  . . . they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 11:26  . . . all Israel shall be saved:

 

Isa 66:8  Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

 

Dear Brother Faber, I’ll just list thoughts given by Gene Hawkins as to the reasons the seventy weeks of Daniel were complete, and you can make what you will of it.

“Men try to say that Daniel 9 refers to the seven year tribulation but it can’t be because those weeks prophesied there were prophesied weeks of blessings, and I’ll guarantee you that the week of tribulation is not a week of blessing.”

 

Which of the following listed items were not complete?

Dan 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

To me there will be a week of Daniel to come we read of in Dan 9:27.

Share this post


Link to post
Civilwarbuff

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
4 minutes ago, Civilwarbuff said:

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

Hi, and I'm not sure I'm understanding your thinking as pertaining to the 490 years of Daniel; that seventy weeks. To me the four hundred and ninety years have nothing to do with the tribulation to come. Isn't that what Mat 24:21 & Mat 24:22 are describing instead of Dan 9:24?

I am aware that much of the Church believes that there is a 70th week of Daniel that has not been completed yet.Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Civilwarbuff
3 minutes ago, larry2 said:

I am aware that much of the Church believes that there is a 70th week of Daniel that has not been completed yet.Thanks.

That is what I am referencing......

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
26 minutes ago, larry2 said:

I am aware that much of the Church believes that there is a 70th week of Daniel that has not been completed yet.Thanks.

 

24 minutes ago, Civilwarbuff said:

That is what I am referencing......

 

Is there reason to believe any portion of Dan 9:24 is to become a part of the tribulation? It is all blessings.

Mt 24:21-22 describes judgment come during the time of Dan 9:27.

Share this post


Link to post
Becky
Moderator
On 5/23/2018 at 4:35 PM, Civilwarbuff said:

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

Josephus wrote about it. His writings are dismissed by many.

Share this post


Link to post
Placable37
On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:35 AM, Civilwarbuff said:

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

Hi Civilwarbuff,

You may have heard of Preterism and the Preterists that adhere to it. If not this Wikipedia quote might help:

"Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70."

 

David Nikao is a strong voice for Preterism. If you go to this link you will have days, weeks, months, perhaps years of material to reflect on:

http://christianitybeliefs.org/

Share this post


Link to post
Civilwarbuff
6 hours ago, Placable37 said:

Hi Civilwarbuff,

You may have heard of Preterism and the Preterists that adhere to it. If not this Wikipedia quote might help:

"Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70."

 

David Nikao is a strong voice for Preterism. If you go to this link you will have days, weeks, months, perhaps years of material to reflect on:

http://christianitybeliefs.org/

So, you are saying you are a preterist?

Share this post


Link to post
reformed baptist
On 5/24/2018 at 12:35 AM, Civilwarbuff said:

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

I'm not sure I follow you - you are asking someone who believes a certain thing about a passage in Daniel to answer a question about a verse in Matt. Maybe if you established the exegetical link (instead of merely assuming it) one might be able to answer your question? 

Share this post


Link to post
Placable37
On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 11:48 PM, Civilwarbuff said:

So, you are saying you are a preterist?

I lean towards some views that are considered preterist simply because they make more sense than another views, particularly where the Book of Daniel is concerned, but I definitely do not agree with the assertion that all Scripture prophecies have been fulfilled. Obviously the harpatzo hasn't taken place so we are still waiting for the bridegroom (Christ) to come for the bride(the ekklesia of God).

Share this post


Link to post
Civilwarbuff
4 hours ago, Placable37 said:

I lean towards some views that are considered preterist simply because they make more sense than another views, particularly where the Book of Daniel is concerned, but I definitely do not agree with the assertion that all Scripture prophecies have been fulfilled. Obviously the harpatzo hasn't taken place so we are still waiting for the bridegroom (Christ) to come for the bride(the ekklesia of God).

And yet you criticize others for believing the 70th week is still to come (put on hold so to speak) yet have no problem breaking up Daniel's prophecy  to fit your own beliefs.  What part of the 70th week is not completed to your understanding?

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
On 5/23/2018 at 5:35 PM, Civilwarbuff said:

I am still waiting for someone who believes the 70 weeks to be complete to point out the event that fulfills Messiah's prophecy:

Mat 24:21  because at that time there will be great suffering, the kind that has not happened from the beginning of the world until now and certainly will never happen again.
Mat 24:22  If those days had not been limited, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be limited.

You would think that there would at least be a footnote in the history books referencing it........

I must be reading this wrong, but if I think Daniel's 70th week is complete, what in Mt 24:21-22 would apply to Dan 9:24 for instance?

Dan 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 

Thanks.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Becky
Moderator
53 minutes ago, larry2 said:

I must be reading this wrong, but if I think Daniel's 70th week is complete, what in Mt 24:21-22 would apply to Dan 9:24 for instance?

Dan 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 

Thanks.
 

Seems to me the Cross of Christ completed Dan 9 24

Share this post


Link to post
Placable37
On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 12:37 AM, Civilwarbuff said:

And yet you criticize others for believing the 70th week is still to come (put on hold so to speak) yet have no problem breaking up Daniel's prophecy  to fit your own beliefs.  What part of the 70th week is not completed to your understanding?

Sorry if I have appeared to criticize any alternative beliefs, Civilwarbuff, definitely not my intention here.  I do say that for me the preterist view that the 70 weeks was completed with the crucifixion of Christ and His confirming of the covenant makes more sense than the idea of a future endtimes antichrist confirming some presently non-existent covenant with the reconstituted nation of Israel in the middle of a final 7 year period after a gap of who knows how many centuries about which Scripture say nothing.

 

If anyone wants to believe the futurist view I say go for it, but please don't knock those who believe that Daniel's prophecy does not apply to the times yet to come.

I believe both that Daniel's prophecy is all completed, and that there are still future events spoken of by Christ in the New Testament to be completed.

Edited by Placable37

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
43 minutes ago, Becky said:

Seems to me the Cross of Christ completed Dan 9 24

Counting the time of Dan 9:25 tells us that Daniel's prophesy of until the cross is only sixty-nine weeks, or foundred and eight-three years using year/day counting. 

 

Dan 9:25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (This underlined troublous times is during the rebuilding of the wall during the first seven weeks, or forty-nine years of this prophesy. and then we come to the next sixty-two weeks of Dan 9:26)
 

Dan 9:26  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (What happened to the anointing of Jesus after His death on the cross? Those in Christ had seven years of having all things in common, living as if in the millennial age to come, and finally we see Stephen stoned, and him proclaming in Act 7:56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Verification of Jesus' anoiting?) 

 

Now what of those people of the prince that came to Jerusalem in 70 A.D.? Did that disannul the fact that Dan 9:24 was fulfilled?
 

Share this post


Link to post
GUANO
On 5/28/2018 at 11:02 PM, larry2 said:

Counting the time of Dan 9:25 tells us that Daniel's prophesy of until the cross is only sixty-nine weeks, or foundred and eight-three years using year/day counting. 

 

Dan 9:25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (This underlined troublous times is during the rebuilding of the wall during the first seven weeks, or forty-nine years of this prophesy. and then we come to the next sixty-two weeks of Dan 9:26)
 

Dan 9:26  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (What happened to the anointing of Jesus after His death on the cross? Those in Christ had seven years of having all things in common, living as if in the millennial age to come, and finally we see Stephen stoned, and him proclaming in Act 7:56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. (Verification of Jesus' anoiting?) 

 

Now what of those people of the prince that came to Jerusalem in 70 A.D.? Did that disannul the fact that Dan 9:24 was fulfilled?
 

Good post.

 

I believe that it was Christ who confirmed the covenant with many, and, for the overspreading of abominations, rendered the ceremonial practices "desolate" before Titus ever came and finished off the temple itself.  I do not find validity in the "gap" theory between the 69th and 70th weeks.  The prophecy appears to have been fulfilled perfectly as-is—it's about Messiah.  The entire "Antichrist" doctrine and figurehead which seems to be an interesting political tool more than anything else spawns from this very verse.

Share this post


Link to post
larry2
1 hour ago, GUANO said:

Good post.

 

I believe that it was Christ who confirmed the covenant with many, and, for the overspreading of abominations, rendered the ceremonial practices "desolate" before Titus ever came and finished off the temple itself.  I do not find validity in the "gap" theory between the 69th and 70th weeks.  The prophecy appears to have been fulfilled perfectly as-is—it's about Messiah.  The entire "Antichrist" doctrine and figurehead which seems to be an interesting political tool more than anything else spawns from this very verse.

I don't see that as I read that it is the prince of those that destroyed the temple in Dan 9:26 that comes and makes a covenant with many in Dan 9:27. To me it wasn't Jesus that destroyed the city and the sanctutary in the year of 70 AD. What do you think is next on God's prophetic calander? Thanks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
GUANO

I definitely agree that it's referring to Rome in the destruction of the Temple.  I just do not believe the 'he' in the following scripture is still referring to the Roman "prince".

 

As far as what is next, not sure.  I was always a fan of Isaac Newton's reflections and I think his date of "not before 2060" is the best we have right now.  I'd put our current position as Revelation 13:15  "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

 

I think we will have some more wars to fulfill this prophecy before moving on to the next but this is where I think we're at.  Cheers.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...