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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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Civilwarbuff

One in four American adults lives with a.........

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Civilwarbuff

One in four American adults lives with a criminal record -- It's time for them to get a second chance

This year the U.S. Senate recognized April 2018 as Second Chance Month. Fittingly, the resolution came six years after the passing of a man who embodied the importance of second chances: former Nixon “hatchet man” Charles Colson. Today, the prison ministry Colson founded after his release from federal prison is at the head of a nationwide movement to recognize the dignity of people who have paid their debt to society and open up opportunities for them to succeed.

One in four American adults lives with a criminal record, and more than 48,000 documented legal restrictions limit their access to education, jobs, housing, and other things necessary for a productive life. But the people most directly affected are not the only ones who care. Businesses, faith communities, government leaders, and other diverse groups recognize that second chances are not a partisan issue, but an issue key to the security and flourishing of all our neighborhoods.

The American Civil Liberties Union, the Heritage Foundation, the Vera Institute of Justice, Koch Industries, and more than 170 other groups have joined Prison Fellowship as Second Chance partners, calling for April to be celebrated as Second Chance Month. The importance of second chances is rapidly gaining public acceptance.  

Momentum is building across the United States. The Senate resolution rounded out a month of resounding cries for second chances, which echoed in Alabama, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Washington, D.C.

The White House issued a proclamation signed by President Donald Trump, calling on all Americans to recognize a month of second chances.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/04/30/one-in-four-american-adults-lives-with-criminal-record-its-time-for-them-to-get-second-chance.html

 

Are we a nation of criminals or are we a nation that criminalizes too many things?

Edited by Civilwarbuff
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Pouty Puppy

I think we became a prison nation when the first utterance of, we (the U.S. ) are a nation of laws. 

 

We're a nation of people. Laws provide punishment for the disorder. 

Prison reform is long overdue. That's another thread. 


Yes, people deserve a second chance. So does society deserve them to have that so that we're not preyed upon when offenders are released. 

 

 

 

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William
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27 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

I think we became a prison nation when the first utterance of, we (the U.S. ) are a nation of laws. 

 

We're a nation of people. Laws provide punishment for the disorder. 

Prison reform is long overdue. That's another thread. 


Yes, people deserve a second chance. So does society deserve them to have that so that we're not preyed upon when offenders are released.

When I was young and stupid I committed a 3rd degree felony. I didn't get my right to vote back until Obama's presidency when I then had my voting rights restored.

 

Just saying, I'm thankful for a second chance. Just not so thankful that I'd vote for Obama or another Liberal/Democrat :RpS_lol:

 

God bless,

William

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Pouty Puppy

The prohibition to vote due to felony conviction should be rescinded across all 50 states. 

When California gave drivers licenses to illegals, and that entitles them to vote for the democratic party that gives them a free ride without consequences for their crime of illegal entry, no American who was convicted of a felony should have the right to vote rescinded due to that conviction. 

 

Those felons that are now in free society should have just as much right to vote for their future as those who voted while the felon was incarcerated vote on what lawmaker enters office so as to make laws that prosecute felons. 

 

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Sue D.

Your one in four American adults with a criminal record sounds a bit high.  Maybe, depending on your geographical area,  that number could be much  lower or higher.  Churched people compared to non-churched.  Gangland compared to suburban neighborhoods.  

 

Second-chances, yes,  but some people can only live 'good lives' in a very regulated environment.  

Maybe we're simply a nation that doesn't Punish Enough.   In some other countries, people who break the laws Don't have nice jail / prison environments.  

If death sentences were carried out in a matter of months rather than 20-30 years ,  the offender Might take crime more seriously. 

Committing crimes takes a person's credance away from them.   A first-time offender serves their time -- a second-time offender should be put away for a Long time.  Or maybe extremely unlenient -- the 2nd time brings an end to their life.  That would probably slow down the crime rate.  

 

And 'we' Could take time to find out Why the offender does the offending in the first place.  Besides the fact that we're all sinners.  Because not all 'sinners' kill, steal, cheat, etc.  

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Sue D.
51 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

The prohibition to vote due to felony conviction should be rescinded across all 50 states. 

When California gave drivers licenses to illegals, and that entitles them to vote for the democratic party that gives them a free ride without consequences for their crime of illegal entry, no American who was convicted of a felony should have the right to vote rescinded due to that conviction. 

 

Those felons that are now in free society should have just as much right to vote for their future as those who voted while the felon was incarcerated vote on what lawmaker enters office so as to make laws that prosecute felons. 

 

Giving a driver's license to illegals is the craziest thing I've ever heard.  Allowing them to vote is another crazy thing.  Loosing freedom / serving time in jail / prison Should mean loosing All freedoms.  

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Pouty Puppy
1 minute ago, Sue D. said:

Giving a driver's license to illegals is the craziest thing I've ever heard.  Allowing them to vote is another crazy thing.  Loosing freedom / serving time in jail / prison Should mean loosing All freedoms.  

That's not how it works. People who commit crimes lose their freedom for the duration of their sentence. Once their debt for that offense is paid, they should be able to assume the same rights as the rest of America's citizens. 

In fact, that there are states where felon's cannot purchase a firearm , that too should be rescinded. Because the down side of that lawful prohibition , besides being unable to defend themselves or their home, is that their family members or anyone who lives with them, are unable to be in possession of a firearm. It's prohibition by association. 
When the 2nd amendment is an unalienable right for the American, it should not be infringed because of association with a felon in the same household. 

 

 

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William
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6 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

In fact, that there are states where felon's cannot purchase a firearm , that too should be rescinded.

Not only a felony but because I spent time in the hospital for depression (suicidal) I cannot purchase a gun.

 

I'd really like my rights back to a degree, but it isn't worth me going broke from lawyer fees etc in restoring my rights should a process be made available.

 

It's one of those sacrifices I now willingly make. I don't expect all felons to have their 2nd amendment right restored. Mine was a victimless crime (3rd degree felony), and my depression hadn't anything to do with hurting others. Though I understand there are felons which have victimized others, and also there are mental patients which are high risk. I wouldn't expect a blanket clause allowing rights to be restored for everyone, making gun ownership easy. 

 

I realize my view may not be "Conservative" as compared to other standards, but I just think it common sense.

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.

@Pouty Puppy -- that's what I meant -- once they have paid their time in jail / prison -- their rights would be returned.  Unless the job they want  prohibits a felon from having that particular job.   And there are employers who don't want to have a known felon on their payroll  and a person can't blame them any.  And it Should make a person think twice before doing something that is against the law.  

 

And I'd agree -- a felon should Not be allowed to have a fire arm.  Think twice before committing a crime. 

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Pouty Puppy
10 minutes ago, William said:

Not only a felony but because I spent time in the hospital for depression (suicidal) I cannot purchase a gun.

 

I'd really like my rights back to a degree, but it isn't worth me going broke from lawyer fees etc in restoring my rights should a process be made available.

 

It's one of those sacrifices I now willingly make. I don't expect all felons to have their 2nd amendment right restored. Mine was a victimless crime (3rd degree felony), and my depression hadn't anything to do with hurting others. Though I understand there are felons which have victimized others, and also there are mental patients which are high risk. I wouldn't expect a blanket clause allowing rights to be restored for everyone, making gun ownership easy. 

 

I realize my view may not be "Conservative" as compared to other standards, but I just think it common sense.

 

God bless,

William

 

Yep, you're still in a prison of sorts even when you're free. 

 

I haven't checked the status in awhile, but last I heard there is a move yet again that exploits dead children due to gun violence, the Florida school massacre, wherein anyone identified with emotional or mental issues are prohibited from buying a weapon. And if they have weapons, those can be seized. 

Imagine that. A broad umbrella term that encompasses so many people; mental issues. 
What if you're a veteran with PTSD? Yes, that would qualify if that effort was a success. 

What if you sought counseling after a divorce? Same thing. 

 

Any means to take our guns without actually going door to door. 

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Sue D.
35 minutes ago, William said:

Not only a felony but because I spent time in the hospital for depression (suicidal) I cannot purchase a gun.

 

I'd really like my rights back to a degree, but it isn't worth me going broke from lawyer fees etc in restoring my rights should a process be made available.

 

It's one of those sacrifices I now willingly make. I don't expect all felons to have their 2nd amendment right restored. Mine was a victimless crime (3rd degree felony), and my depression hadn't anything to do with hurting others. Though I understand there are felons which have victimized others, and also there are mental patients which are high risk. I wouldn't expect a blanket clause allowing rights to be restored for everyone, making gun ownership easy. 

 

I realize my view may not be "Conservative" as compared to other standards, but I just think it common sense.

 

God bless,

William

Yes, common sense. 

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Pouty Puppy
5 minutes ago, Sue D. said:

@Pouty Puppy -- that's what I meant -- once they have paid their time in jail / prison -- their rights would be returned.  Unless the job they want  prohibits a felon from having that particular job.   And there are employers who don't want to have a known felon on their payroll  and a person can't blame them any.  And it Should make a person think twice before doing something that is against the law.  

 

And I'd agree -- a felon should Not be allowed to have a fire arm.  Think twice before committing a crime. 

Where then does the payment for the crime and post incarceration rehabilitation occur in that scenario? 
They paid their price for committing the crime. 

I don't think a felony conviction should prohibit someone gainful employment. But on many applications now, if not all, there's a little box to be checked after the question, have you ever been convicted of a crime? 

If someone can't get a legal job so as to feed and clothe and house themselves in free society due to their criminal conviction, what are they to do to survive? Commit crimes. And people can get guns if they want them. By by

passing the lawful purchase and going to the street. 

 

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Sue D.
25 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

 

Yep, you're still in a prison of sorts even when you're free. 

 

I haven't checked the status in awhile, but last I heard there is a move yet again that exploits dead children due to gun violence, the Florida school massacre, wherein anyone identified with emotional or mental issues are prohibited from buying a weapon. And if they have weapons, those can be seized. 

Imagine that. A broad umbrella term that encompasses so many people; mental issues. 
What if you're a veteran with PTSD? Yes, that would qualify if that effort was a success. 

What if you sought counseling after a divorce? Same thing. 

 

Any means to take our guns without actually going door to door. 

Probably a lot of people are in a 'prison' of sorts.  

My husband is a veteran with PTSD.  He's on medication and is a strong believer of right to bear arms.  He also has a revolver and shot gun with amo in a locked firearms safe with combo lock.  It's in our bedroom.  I've never touched it and never intend to.  

I would Not be comfortable with a veteran with PTSD at a school to help protect students.   There's no guarantee that he / she wouldn't experience a flashback of being in a battle situation and 'turn' on the students or adult staff people.   

National guardsmen / women would be okay.  

 

But I'd not classify a divorced person seeking counseling as the same thing. 

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Sue D.
31 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Where then does the payment for the crime and post incarceration rehabilitation occur in that scenario? 
They paid their price for committing the crime. 

I don't think a felony conviction should prohibit someone gainful employment. But on many applications now, if not all, there's a little box to be checked after the question, have you ever been convicted of a crime? 

If someone can't get a legal job so as to feed and clothe and house themselves in free society due to their criminal conviction, what are they to do to survive? Commit crimes. And people can get guns if they want them. By by

passing the lawful purchase and going to the street. 

 

Committing a crime is not like getting the flu or pneumonia.  There is Always a choice when the law is concerned.  Sometimes breaking  a particular law would seem to be the easy way out of a situation.  Sometimes committing crimes becomes a generational thing.  Kids grow up in an environment that condones crime. And, yet, there Are kids who grow up in crime and get involved in school activities and 'go straight' and others who end up 'going straight to jail / prison'.  The "Ben Carsons" of the world.   And those who are shot / killed before they reach adulthood.  

 

Maybe good prisons Do offer rehabilitation to prisoners.  Teach them a skill and have someone on the outside sponsor them upon their release.   In Texas many years ago I was involved with the prison ministry in a church we'd gone to for a while.  One of the facilities in Houston had faith-based programs.  The inmates had Bible studies available.  Lots of them went and it had a very positive affect on them.  The recitivism rate (return rate to prison) was Way down compared to other prisons.  

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Pouty Puppy

Recidivism is inevitable if there is no hope and no opportunity on the outside when an inmate is released. 

Thank God there are re-entry programs for inmates once they are released. (List by State) I love the subtitle of this group. http://helpforfelons.org/reentry-programs-ex-offenders-state/  "Breaking Through The Past". 

 

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Pouty Puppy
18 hours ago, Sue D. said:

Probably a lot of people are in a 'prison' of sorts.  

My husband is a veteran with PTSD.  He's on medication and is a strong believer of right to bear arms.  He also has a revolver and shot gun with amo in a locked firearms safe with combo lock.  It's in our bedroom.  I've never touched it and never intend to.  

I would Not be comfortable with a veteran with PTSD at a school to help protect students.   There's no guarantee that he / she wouldn't experience a flashback of being in a battle situation and 'turn' on the students or adult staff people.   

National guardsmen / women would be okay.  

 

But I'd not classify a divorced person seeking counseling as the same thing. 

The point being made was the structure that is forming to limit access and exercise of the 2nd amendment. 

 

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Sue D.
1 hour ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Recidivism is inevitable if there is no hope and no opportunity on the outside when an inmate is released. 

Thank God there are re-entry programs for inmates once they are released. (List by State) I love the subtitle of this group. http://helpforfelons.org/reentry-programs-ex-offenders-state/  "Breaking Through The Past". 

 

Recidivism is as inevitable as the person makes it.  Meaning that the person is apparently making better choices in everyday life so as to Not break a law that sends him/ her back to jail / prison.  Taking responsibility for personal actions.  There are lots of jobs available for those who are willing to take them.  

Lots of the breaking through the past is understand How the past contributed to their situation Now.  Learning to make choices that will avoid negative consequences and Promote Good results. 

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Sue D.
1 hour ago, Pouty Puppy said:

The point being made was the structure that is forming to limit access and exercise of the 2nd amendment. 

 

The right to bear arms should Not include having semi-automatic weapons available to anyone outside of the military / police force.  A hand-gun should be all that's necessary to protect your family from an intruder.   Let friends, family know to call you Before coming to your house.  And there are those who take the 2nd amendment a bit too far. Sometimes people end up causing a problem where there hadn't been one previously.  

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William
Staff
34 minutes ago, Sue D. said:

The right to bear arms should Not include having semi-automatic weapons available to anyone outside of the military / police force.  A hand-gun should be all that's necessary to protect your family from an intruder.   Let friends, family know to call you Before coming to your house.  And there are those who take the 2nd amendment a bit too far. Sometimes people end up causing a problem where there hadn't been one previously.  

You realize a hand gun is semi-automatic? You must mean anyone outside the military should not have a need for a fully automatic weapon?

 

God bless,

William

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Pouty Puppy
2 hours ago, Sue D. said:

Recidivism is as inevitable as the person makes it.  Meaning that the person is apparently making better choices in everyday life so as to Not break a law that sends him/ her back to jail / prison.  Taking responsibility for personal actions.  There are lots of jobs available for those who are willing to take them.  

Lots of the breaking through the past is understand How the past contributed to their situation Now.  Learning to make choices that will avoid negative consequences and Promote Good results. 

I take it by your series of observations that you are not familiar with the criminal justice system. Or, the after effects when an incarcerated person is released?

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Pouty Puppy
2 hours ago, Sue D. said:

The right to bear arms should Not include having semi-automatic weapons available to anyone outside of the military / police force.  A hand-gun should be all that's necessary to protect your family from an intruder.   Let friends, family know to call you Before coming to your house.  And there are those who take the 2nd amendment a bit too far. Sometimes people end up causing a problem where there hadn't been one previously.  

The Constitution was written to give protections to the people and limit government. 
The government has weapons beyond any that the average citizen could compile. We should have every right to arm ourselves with whatever weapons are for sale. A free country is better served when the people can combat all enemies, both foreign and domestic. 

Have we not learned how the unarmed suffer at the hands of those with a gun? School shootings, workplace murder. 

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Sue D.

Okay -- I'm meaning the weaponry some of the shooters have had possession of when committing the mass shootings.    AR 15's  -- assault weapons -- my husband just reminded me what they are called.  Those should not be available for regular citizenry in my opinion.  

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William
Staff
Just now, Sue D. said:

Okay -- I'm meaning the weaponry some of the shooters have had possession of when committing the mass shootings.    AR 15's  -- assault weapons -- my husband just reminded me what they are called.  Those should not be available for regular citizenry in my opinion.  

Why? Do you realize assault weapons are semi-automatic?

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.
59 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

I take it by your series of observations that you are not familiar with the criminal justice system. Or, the after effects when an incarcerated person is released?

What I'm saying is that we're talking about those who have broken a law.  A person who knows what the law says and breaks it Anyway.  Murder, rape, burglary, assault, and even writing bad checks.  Drunk driving, using 'pot'.  All those things that people Do that get them arrested and go to court, end up in jail, prison.   When a person breaks a law -- there Will be negative consequences.  Getting picked up for speeding, it's against the law and if / when caught/ there is a penalty involved. 

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Sue D.

Yes, government Has gotten way out of control.  My point is that those kinds of assault weapons should not be for sale.  And maybe it depends on where a person lives.  Maybe what we Need to do is get to know our neighbors.  And in some geographical areas that's not even possible.  But the idea of living with weapons of choice in the living room and meeting your neighbor with a cocked gun ready to use is asking for trouble.  Is that really a Christ-like attitude?  Aren't we supposed to be loving the Lord our God with all our heart, soul and mind.  And our neighbor as ourselves.  

 

And there Are organizations that reach out to inmates with writing letters.  Many years ago I was doing that for a while.  Got on the internet and found sites for exactly that.  But a person needs to be very careful -- there are rules and regulations to follow in That area, too.  

 

I tend to be uncomfortable with the concept of people carrying guns or other weapons with them.  It sort of encourages negative reactions First and asking questions After wards.  Learning self-defense is Also a good idea.  A person can defend him/ herself in order to get away rather than killing the other person.  

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