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Uncle Siggy

So do you really think we need single payer healthcare?

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Uncle Siggy

How Much Do Canadians Really Pay for Health Care? [h=3]It’s a lot more than you have been told by the Democrats and the media.[/h] A recent survey conducted by the Washington Post and the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 51 percent of U.S. adults support single-payer health care. This isn’t a poll of actual voters, of course, but it does suggest that the propaganda campaign conducted by the Democrats and the “news” media is having an effect. The system they most often hold up as a paragon of the single-payer approach to health care is, of course, Canada’s “Medicare” program. But, before deciding to emulate the Canucks, we should consider what they really pay for health care and what they get for their money.

The usual talking point single-payer advocates trot out when asked about this goes thus: According to OECD, health care in the U.S. costs about twice what Canadians pay. If the single-payer advocate is uncharacteristically articulate for a lefty, they will quote another OECD canard about life expectancy to show that we are paying more money, yet receiving worse overall care. As it happens, both of these talking points are meaningless. Canadians pay far more for healthcare than is commonly believed and life expectancy is useless in determining the quality of a healthcare system.

Let’s start with how much Canadians actually pay. The OECD arrives at its figures by the hopelessly simplistic method of dividing a nation’s total health care expenditure by its population. Thus, Canadians pay about $5,500 a head while we pay a little over $10,000 apiece for our system. But these figures are meaningless to actual Canadian families. What matters to them is how much they pay for coverage, via taxation. The Fraser Institute, a non-partisan think tank based in British Columbia, reports that the average two-adult family pays more than $12K annually. And it gets worse:

 

Rest of the article is at the link: https://spectator.org/how-much-do-canadians-really-pay-for-health-care/?utm_source=American+Spectator+Emails&utm_campaign=17b6e219e9-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_04_23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_797a38d487-17b6e219e9-104287757

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Becky
Moderator

no we do not need single payer

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deade

They need to quit trying to fix what isn't broken. blue-smiley-that-says-no-emoticon.gif.e2e4e387c8daf387f932d614c27e790a.gif

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RazeontheRock
They need to quit trying to fix what isn't broken. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"blue-smiley-that-says-no-emoticon.gif","data-attachmentid":70983}[/ATTACH]

Hm, Obamacare is broken. Our health care system has some astoundingly horrific stats to try to make the claim that it's not "broken," but that's a vague thing to try to prove.

 

This is one problem I don't see a ready solution to, but the problem is such a large % of dollars spent that have NOTHING to do with actually giving health care. There's a reason the biggest buildings in the world are built by insurance companies, and our Courts usually side with them.

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Uncle Siggy
Hm, Obamacare is broken.

 

It was supposed to be broken...

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deade
They need to quit trying to fix what isn't broken. [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","title":"blue-smiley-that-says-no-emoticon.gif","data-attachmentid":70983}[/ATTACH]

Yes, but Obamacare is not our health system, not that they didn't try. We are generally getting by better than you think.

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RazeontheRock

Deade, how well do you think we're getting by? I know many families who have lost their homes and divorced due to Obamacare premiums, and people who now have health care that didn't generally can't afford to use it.

 

What's the upside?

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deade
Deade, how well do you think we're getting by? I know many families who have lost their homes and divorced due to Obamacare premiums, and people who now have health care that didn't generally can't afford to use it.

 

What's the upside?

I don't think insurance of any kind should be forced on anyone. That is why we need to support the repeal of Obamacare. Catastrophic health problems have always broken people financially. I don't know how to fix that, do you?

Edited by deade
typo

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Potluck

Bernie Sanders wanted single payer. His cost estimate was $30 Trillion.

What would that money be for? To set up the government’s administrative infrastructure.

 

Other countries are cited as examples and of course in the best light possible. But our economy is not the same nor is the medical community. Much of the newer medical technology other countries use or adopt comes from the US.

I can’t imagine how detrimental government controlled funds would be to the research done here by private institutions and corporations.

 

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Potluck

Remember, it was Obamacare that threatened churches with mandates that went against their beliefs. Can you imagine the power single payer would hand the government?

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Fastfredy0

Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

image.png.f7b03d81d58c9f680530aec7a793835b.png

image.png.08e16a88205492f5dd066c4d81f39ab2.png

 

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Knotical

We do not need a single-payer healthcare system. What we do need is a gutting of the FDA, a complete dismantling of pharmaceutical companies, and a complete repeal of any and all bans on natural substances. We also need a complete review of how much it truly costs to treat individuals of specific diseases once we have determined that there have been cures for many of the diseases that are currently being "treated."

 

Of course this would all take a miracle, but if you want to get healthcare costs under control this is what has to happen.

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RazeontheRock
Bernie Sanders wanted single payer. His cost estimate was $30 Trillion.

What would that money be for? To set up the government’s administrative infrastructure.

 

Other countries are cited as examples and of course in the best light possible. But our economy is not the same nor is the medical community. Much of the newer medical technology other countries use or adopt comes from the US.

I can’t imagine how detrimental government controlled funds would be to the research done here by private institutions and corporations.

Yes, this is my biggest concern with fully socializing medicine; how do we preserve the motive to innovate? That is our best product.

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RazeontheRock
Remember, it was Obamacare that threatened churches with mandates that went against their beliefs. Can you imagine the power single payer would hand the government?

That's not a valid argument, because government gets no more power than a bill gives it. Somebody would have to read it before signing it though ...

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RazeontheRock
Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","width":"630","data-attachmentid":71357}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"338","width":"689","data-attachmentid":71358}[/ATTACH]

 

Yeah, that license as poet needs to be revoked, lol. Partisan hackery, thinking of everything in terms of Democrat or Republican, is certainly part of the problem and not helping a bloody thing.

 

We have a huge laundry list of things contributing to artificially high medical costs:

 

1) We pay for the cost of R&D, while the rest of the world benefits but leaves us with the bill. Same with our military, btw. That got old a long time ago and Trump is the first POTUS to even address it, yet our Congress and Judicial branch fights him even when they have no footing.

 

2) Administrative costs i.e. insurance companies, take WAY more of the money than Doctors do. They also build the biggest buildings.

 

3) Lawsuits give crazy high awards, which is a separate aspect of insurance costs: malpractice.

 

4) No transparency, to even have any kind of free market controls. There's no way to shop around for services. The same service is billed at one rate for private insurance, perhaps a different rate for a different insurance company, a different rate for government insurance, and a different rate yet for uninsured. And it's not at all the same from one facility to the next which one of those options is going to be billed higher.

 

We do have practitioners that only work for one (or a few) types of insurance, and forego all copay, setting for what the insurance pays.

 

This system is broken!

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RazeontheRock
We do not need a single-payer healthcare system. What we do need is a gutting of the FDA, a complete dismantling of pharmaceutical companies, and a complete repeal of any and all bans on natural substances. We also need a complete review of how much it truly costs to treat individuals of specific diseases once we have determined that there have been cures for many of the diseases that are currently being "treated."

 

Of course this would all take a miracle, but if you want to get healthcare costs under control this is what has to happen.

 

Hey, good idea! I don't think that would be miraculous, it would just take people with common sense actually trying to fix the problem. Oh wait ...

 

If anything were worth a "march on Washington," this would be it. The problem is, if it weren't an armed march would it be taken seriously?

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Uncle Siggy
Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","width":"630","data-attachmentid":71357}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"338","width":"689","data-attachmentid":71358}[/ATTACH]

So do you have links for those charts???

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Uncle Siggy
We do not need a single-payer healthcare system. What we do need is a gutting of the FDA, a complete dismantling of pharmaceutical companies, and a complete repeal of any and all bans on natural substances. We also need a complete review of how much it truly costs to treat individuals of specific diseases once we have determined that there have been cures for many of the diseases that are currently being "treated."

 

Of course this would all take a miracle, but if you want to get healthcare costs under control this is what has to happen.

 

Hey, good idea! I don't think that would be miraculous, it would just take people with common sense actually trying to fix the problem. Oh wait ...

 

If anything were worth a "march on Washington," this would be it. The problem is, if it weren't an armed march would it be taken seriously?

Progressivism: The silliest way known to man to deal with life. First you create solutions to problems that don’t exist, thereby creating a problem where none existed before which then means you have to find a solution to that problem you just created…

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Fastfredy0
Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","width":"630","data-attachmentid":71357}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"338","width":"689","data-attachmentid":71358}[/ATTACH]

I didn't record the links. Simply google and lots of sites will come up. I think all say US pays most for health care for capita and that they rank poorly compared to developed countries. Here is an example: https://www.internationalinsurance.com/news/ranking-top-eleven-healthcare-systems-country.php

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Potluck

Bernie Sanders has been stumping for guaranteed jobs at $15/hr among other government handout programs. The move from the left toward socialism seems to be gaining traction from the radical left.

 

That all dovetails quite nicely with single payer doesn't it?

Seems this has been quite a year for the democrats' "coming out" events. Exposed has been their goal to abolish the 2nd amendment and now their push toward socialism. Granted, not all dems are on the bandwagon just yet either through ambivalence to stepping out into the light or an unwillingness to admit even to themselves their ideology is taking a hard left turn.

 

/Carl Marx

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

 

 

 

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RazeontheRock
Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","width":"630","data-attachmentid":71357}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"338","width":"689","data-attachmentid":71358}[/ATTACH]

Yeah, that much is for sure.

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Uncle Siggy
Hmmm, among wealthy countries U.S. is rated last for Health Care results yet the U.S. pays the most per capita.

It may have nothing to do with 'single payer' but it highly suggestive of a significant problem.

 

Do you not know that when you continually offer yourselves to someone to do his will, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey, either [slaves] of republican or democratic ideology. (poetic license?)

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"455","width":"630","data-attachmentid":71357}[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","height":"338","width":"689","data-attachmentid":71358}[/ATTACH]

Well I'm curious as to who composed this piece of drivel and when it was published/disseminated, the original article links would tell us this and which lie they were pushing at the time. The reason I say this is part of it has already been debunked by the article I posted. And I know British Healthcare is not the best in the world I lived there for 3 years, it's nothing special. Besides one of our good friends we met while we were living there has been coming here for the last 2 years getting cancer treatments she can't get there...

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Uncle Siggy
Bernie Sanders has been stumping for guaranteed jobs at $15/hr among other government handout programs. The move from the left toward socialism seems to be gaining traction from the radical left.

 

That all dovetails quite nicely with single payer doesn't it?

Seems this has been quite a year for the democrats' "coming out" events. Exposed has been their goal to abolish the 2nd amendment and now their push toward socialism. Granted, not all dems are on the bandwagon just yet either through ambivalence to stepping out into the light or an unwillingness to admit even to themselves their ideology is taking a hard left turn.

 

/Carl Marx

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

 

 

Quite a few of their politicians are telling the far left to shut up and keep silent. Guess they think if the far left keeps running their mouths about their unpopular agenda voters will stay home or go elsewhere. Problem is the cat was out of that bag back in 2010 and the voters are just being reminded on a regular basis how bad it really is...

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Becky
Moderator

When we in the USA do not voice our opinions and act on them, in a lawful manor . we are part of the problem. Christians should bother to read the planks in the platform of the DNC , the GOP, and any other group... then prayerfully decide which to support..

 

Keeping in mind we are to occupy until He returns.. Occupy does not mean "do nothing".

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Uncle Siggy
When we in the USA do not voice our opinions and act on them, in a lawful manor . we are part of the problem. Christians should bother to read the planks in the platform of the DNC , the GOP, and any other group... then prayerfully decide which to support..

 

Keeping in mind we are to occupy until He returns.. Occupy does not mean "do nothing".

Too many 1 issue voters is the main problem...

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