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Was Judas saved?

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Fastfredy0

No, Judas is 'toast'. Matthew 26:24; John 17:12

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Anto9us

So long Judas...

Poor old Judas...

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kathydixon

"Judas Iscariot was one of the Twelve Apostles, notorious for betraying Jesus. His surname is more probably a corruption of the Latin sicarius (“murderer”) than an indication of family origin, suggesting that he would have belonged to the most radical Jewish group, some of whom were terrorists. Other than his apostleship, his betrayal and his death, little else is revealed about him in the Gospels."

 

From the above I would say, no, Judas was not saved

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atpollard

Mark 14:21 NASBFor the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

 

John 6:70-71 NASB Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

 

John 17:12 NASB “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled."

 

"son of perdition" = Hebrew: idiom for one destined to perish

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Pouty Puppy

I think he was saved and forgiven in fact. Because from the cross Jesus said of those who were responsible for his being there, Father forgive them for they know not what they do. 

That would include Judas whom Jesus supped with in the first communion. And whom he, being informed by the indwelling Holy Spirit, knew also what Judas was to do in order for Jesus to fulfill his destiny on the cross. Which is why he said to Judas, go and do what you have to do and quickly. 

Judas was given permission by Jesus to tell the Pharisee and Sadducee that sought him out where to find him. How else would Judas, who departed the upper room on that mission, know to lead the temple guard to the garden where Jesus and Judas' brothers were gathered? 

 

If not for Judas how would Jesus have come to be put to death on the last altar where he died taking on the sins of the world upon himself there?

 

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deade

I would think we have enough to worry about without speculating on another's salvation. Especially someone we haven't met personally. Does it really matter to us today? Like Jesus said: "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone." 

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A conversation about nothing in particular - Page 472 - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

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Becky
Moderator

Joh 17:9  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 
Joh 17:10  And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 
Joh 17:11  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 
Joh 17:12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 
 

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Pouty Puppy

 “When Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. He said, ‘I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.’” Matthew 27:3-4

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davidtaylorjr
On 5/6/2018 at 6:47 PM, Pouty Puppy said:

I think he was saved and forgiven in fact. Because from the cross Jesus said of those who were responsible for his being there, Father forgive them for they know not what they do. 

That would include Judas whom Jesus supped with in the first communion. And whom he, being informed by the indwelling Holy Spirit, knew also what Judas was to do in order for Jesus to fulfill his destiny on the cross. Which is why he said to Judas, go and do what you have to do and quickly. 

Judas was given permission by Jesus to tell the Pharisee and Sadducee that sought him out where to find him. How else would Judas, who departed the upper room on that mission, know to lead the temple guard to the garden where Jesus and Judas' brothers were gathered? 

 

If not for Judas how would Jesus have come to be put to death on the last altar where he died taking on the sins of the world upon himself there?

 

I don't think that there is any evidence to support this view. There is one way and one way only to be saved. Jesus did not say "Father forgive all of their sins," he said forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.

6 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

 “When Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. He said, ‘I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.’” Matthew 27:3-4

Where does this say he repented? It doesn't.  Bringing back the money is not repentance but guilt.

 

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reformed baptist
11 hours ago, Pouty Puppy said:

“When Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. He said, ‘I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.’” Matthew 27:3-4

Τότε ἰδὼν Ἰούδας ὁ παραδιδοὺς αὐτὸν ὅτι κατεκρίθη, μεταμεληθεὶς ἔστρεψεν τὰ τριάκοντα ἀργύρια τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσιν καὶ πρεσβυτέροις (Mat 27:3 BGT)

 

It's μεταμέλομαι (remorse) not μετανοέω (repent) - Judas was remorseful over want he had done - he did not repent of it!   

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Becky
Moderator

Jesus said one was lost. I have never read a passage that says judas was found.

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Bull of the Woods

The quick assumption has to be no. I would think if something so dramatic had happened that Judas somehow had come to faith, that would be revealed as it was of the thief on the cross. 

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Bull of the Woods

Perhaps Jesus on the cross was asking His Father to forgive them specifically for crucifying Him so that they would not be wiped out at that moment. I don't know that He was asking the Father to save them from all their sins and give them eternal life.

Edited by Bull of the Woods
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davidtaylorjr
Just now, Bull of the Woods said:

Perhaps Jesus on the cross was asking His Father to forgive them specifically for crucifying Him so that they would not be wiped out at that moment. I don't know that He was asking the Father to save them from all their sins and give them eternal life.

That is what I was trying to say earlier and is basically the way I read that passage. 

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Becky
Moderator

Judas knew. 

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reformed baptist
15 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

That is what I was trying to say earlier and is basically the way I read that passage. 

The prayer of Jesus on the cross is perhaps one of the deepest portions of scripture - I think it is hard to argue that Jesus is asking the Father for anything less then the complete forgiveness of those who are killing him in regards to that one act! I also think it is hard to argue that Jesus is asking for anything more then that, ie he isn't praying for the salvation. It seems to be a prayer in regards to this one act! 

 

However that been said, it is also a reach to stretch this prayer to include Judas

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davidtaylorjr
Just now, Becky said:

Judas knew. 

Correction, Judas knows..... 

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davidtaylorjr
Just now, reformed baptist said:

The prayer of Jesus on the cross is perhaps one of the deepest portions of scripture - I think it is hard to argue that Jesus is asking the Father for anything less then the complete forgiveness of those who are killing him in regards to that one act! I also think it is hard to argue that Jesus is asking for anything more then that, ie he isn't praying for the salvation. It seems to be a prayer in regards to this one act! 

 

However that been said, it is also a reach to stretch this prayer to include Judas

I agree with this statement. And I, like you, find it hard to believe that it would have included Judas in that prayer. Judas knew exactly what he was doing, he knew who Jesus was.

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Pouty Puppy

Judas was intended , predestined, to deliver Jesus to the last part of the purpose for which he was born. That of being the last sacrifice for sin, taking the sins of the world upon himself, on the last altar upon which his blood would be spilled so as to cover all sins of all repentant sinners for all time. 

 

Judas was part of God's plan. Regardless of what human thought would like to attribute to Judas as some kind of worthy punishment for being in Hell, it would speak poorly of his reward having served God. Having repented of his sin of betraying innocent blood, when apparently in saying that he did not realize he was purposed to do just that, and having been forgiven by God due to Jesus' request from the cross . When Jesus asked the Father to forgive them, all those responsible for his being nailed to that cross, because they did not know they were actually doing God's will. 

 

And not one person has answered this question I put forth earlier. They overlook it , seemingly preferring to think Judas' is to suffer Hell. He's not. If he is, then woe to those who do God's will because they shall be rewarded with Hell when it is time to arrive there. 

Let's try again. images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxfbb75rEPg0qKy7gPU0F

If Judas had not pointed Jesus out in the garden at Gethsemane how would Jesus have come to fulfill God's purpose on the cross? 

 

 

Edited by Pouty Puppy

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davidtaylorjr
2 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Judas was intended , predestined, to deliver Jesus to the last part of the purpose for which he was born. That of being the last sacrifice for sin, taking the sins of the world upon himself, on the last altar upon which his blood would be spilled so as to cover all sins of all repentant sinners for all time. 

 

Judas was part of God's plan. Regardless of what human thought would like to attribute to Judas as some kind of worthy punishment for being in Hell, it would speak poorly of his reward having served God. Having repented of his sin of betraying innocent blood, when apparently in saying that he did not realize he was purposed to do just that, and having been forgiven by God due to Jesus' request from the cross . When Jesus asked the Father to forgive them, all those responsible for his being nailed to that cross, because they did not know they were actually doing God's will. 

 

And not one person has answered this question I put forth earlier. They overlook it , seemingly preferring to think Judas' is to suffer Hell. He's not. If he is, then woe to those who do God's will because they shall be rewarded with Hell when it is time to arrive there. 

Let's try again. images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxfbb75rEPg0qKy7gPU0F

If Judas had not pointed Jesus out in the garden at Gethsemane how would Jesus have come to fulfill God's purpose on the cross? 

 

 

How is one saved? Is there more than one way?

 

I think this boils down to your view on soteriology.

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Pouty Puppy
50 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Correction, Judas knows..... 

Incorrect. Judas knew. Judas "knows", speaks of him in present tense. That is not possible. 

51 minutes ago, reformed baptist said:

 

 

However that been said, it is also a reach to stretch this prayer to include Judas

Much has been said. It is required to prove there is scripture that states Judas was not included in Christ's prayer from the cross. 
Forgive them.....Is inclusive language. 

 

Forgive

ἀφίημι (aphiēmi)

Strong: G863

GK: G918

to send away, dismiss, suffer to depart; to emit, send forth; τὴν φωνήν, the voice, to cry out, utter an exclamation, Mk. 15:37; τὸ πνεῦμα, the spirit, to expire, Mt. 27:50; to omit, pass over or by; to let alone, care not for, Mt. 15:1423:23Heb. 6:1; to permit, suffer, let, forbid not; to give up, yield, resign, Mt. 5:40; to remit, forgive, pardon; to relax, suffer to become less intense, Rev. 2:4; to leave, depart from; to desert, forsake; to leave remaining or alone; to leave behind, i.e. at one’s death, Mk. 12:19202122Jn. 14:27

 

"Them"

αὐτός (autos)

Strong: G846, G847, G848

GK: G899

self, very; alone, Mk. 6:312 Cor. 12:13; of one’s self, of one’s own motion, Jn. 16:27; used also in the oblique cases independently as a personal pron. of the third person; ὁ αὐτός, the same; unchangeable, Heb. 1:12; κατὰ τὸ αὐτό, at the same time, together, Acts 14:1; ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτό, in one and the same place, Mt. 22:34; at the same time, together, Acts 3:1

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Pouty Puppy
4 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

How is one saved? Is there more than one way?

 

I think this boils down to your view on soteriology.

Look, I'm not going to argue with someone who imagines they can interject a talk-salad that hopes to teach people cannot be forgiven by Jesus Christ who was nailed on the cross for that very purpose and while he was there. 

My view of Soteriology is not in question. 

 

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davidtaylorjr
1 minute ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Incorrect. Judas knew. Judas "knows", speaks of him in present tense. That is not possible. 

Of course it is possible, and in fact, reality. Just as the Apostle Paul knows that he was saved.

 

2 minutes ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Much has been said. It is required to prove there is scripture that states Judas was not included in Christ's prayer from the cross. 
Forgive them.....Is inclusive language. 

Even if he were, though that is impossible since he knew what he was doing, that still doesn't state that Jesus was forgiving all of their transgressions in that statement.

 

1 minute ago, Pouty Puppy said:

Look, I'm not going to argue with someone who imagines they can interject a talk-salad that hopes to teach people cannot be forgiven by Jesus Christ who was nailed on the cross for that very purpose and while he was there. 

My view of Soteriology is not in question. 

 

I don't really appreciate the ad hominem. That being said, there is only one person that Jesus forgave on the cross, the thief, and notice something, he had to follow the same plan of salvation as laid out in Scripture. He asked for forgiveness and turned to Jesus as his Lord.  So yes, your view, all of our views, of Soteriology is what all of this boils down to.

 

You either believe what the Bible says about salvation or you do not.

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Pouty Puppy
5 minutes ago, davidtaylorjr said:

Of course it is possible, and in fact, reality. Just as the Apostle Paul knows that he was saved.

 

Even if he were, though that is impossible since he knew what he was doing, that still doesn't state that Jesus was forgiving all of their transgressions in that statement.

 

 

I don't really appreciate the ad hominem. That being said, there is only one person that Jesus forgave on the cross, the thief, and notice something, he had to follow the same plan of salvation as laid out in Scripture. He asked for forgiveness and turned to Jesus as his Lord.  So yes, your view, all of our views, of Soteriology is what all of this boils down to.

 

You either believe what the Bible says about salvation or you do not.

You either believe what the Bible says about salvation or you do not.

Ain't that the truth. 

The one that believes the Bible isn't the one that's trying to say Jesus didn't do what he did do from the cross as reported in the Bible. 

I'm done here. God help us. 

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