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Strong's corcordance

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reformed baptist
Most of us don't have proficiency in Hebrew / Greek -- which is why we have Strong's Concordance with Greek/ Hebrew words and their meanings. Strongs' IS very reliable.

 

Strong's concordance is an excellent resource when used as intended - however when it's use is stretched beyond that intention it can actually become somewhat dangerous - and using strongs concordance to determine the meaning of a word is one such danger - and sister (I am sorry if this sounds condescending) but anyone with even a basic knowledge of languages understands the difference between a concordance and a lexicon - the following article is a little technical in places but it a good explanation of the danger relating to how Strong's concordance is used nowadays:

The
Strong's Concordance
is a helpful tool that lists every Hebrew and Greek lemma (root word) present in the King James Bible. Along with listing these, the tool also generally gives a
for each word (some tools actually link
Strong's Concordance
to lexicons such as
). The tool is popular because it is free on many Bible-related websites. With that said, I'd like to give some advice (and caution) to users who rely on this tool for original languages research in the Biblical texts.

 

Giving credit where it is due, I found
that have heavily influenced this post.

 

Strong's Concordance is not a lexicon

gives an inventory of all of the
in a given language;
Strong's Concordance
is based only on a specific
English
translation (the KJV).
also function as dictionaries in that they define lexemes from the original language using English words that best capture their meaning, explaining any relevant grammatical features that impact their translation.

 

While
Strong's Concordance
gives
for each lemma, this is not the main purpose of this tool and as such should not be used as a lexicon nor as a dictionary (a collection of glosses is rightly called a 'glossary'). Here are a few reasons why it is problematic to use
Strong's Concordance
as a lexicon:

  • Lexical ambiguity:
    Consider the following sentence: "She is looking for a
    match
    ." Is the subject trying to light a candle or find a romantic partner? The 'gloss' definition here is ambiguous and gives us no help disambiguating the meaning in this context. Grammatical features should also be examined, which the
    Strong's Concordance
    offers no help with.
    1


  • Nuances of meaning:
    Sometimes there is more than one meaning listed for a term (this is often the case for prepositions, but there are also verbs that change meaning depending on their voice and other grammatical features).
    Strong's Concordance
    offers no help when determining which (if any) gloss is most appropriate in context. Often knowledge of the original languages is required to determine what grammatical and contextual features are present in order to determine the correct gloss (if any). Also, authors can use the same word differently in differing contexts (such as James' and Paul's usage of the word 'faith').


The meaning of a lexeme is that intended by the author using it. The
Strong's Concordance
often sheds little light on what this meaning is
in context
.
Therefore, claiming the meaning of a specific word in a given context is X on the basis of the
Strong's Concordance
is not a reliable claim.

 

Etymological fallacies

I often see folks try to determine the meaning of words in specific contexts using their root lemmata. The problem here is that etymology and the later meaning of a word are often orthogonal concepts. Here are some examples:

Etymology is not the primary tool for understanding the meaning of a word in a specific context, and it is often meaningless when making such a determination.

 

What if the Strong's Concordance is linked to a lexicon?

Several free online tools have linked
Strong's Concordance
entries to lexicon entries. Unfortunately, most of them use either
Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon
or
Smith's Bible Dictionary
for definitions, both of which were published prior to 1895. As
, these resources are considered to be obsolete by scholars (and contain much inaccurate information).

"...in 1895, Adolf Deissmann published his
Bibelstudien
—an innocently titled work that was to revolutionize the study of the NT. In this work (later translated into English under the title
Bible Studies
) Deissmann showed that the Greek of the NT was not a language invented by the Holy Spirit (Hermann Cremer had called it "Holy Ghost Greek," largely because 10 percent of its vocabulary had no secular parallels). Rather, Deissmann demonstrated that the bulk of NT vocabulary was to be found in the papyri.

 

The pragmatic effect of Deissmann's work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer's lexicon, published in 1886, was outdated shortly after it came off the press—yet, ironically, it is still relied on today by many NT students.)"
2

Elsewhere
and
.

 

How to properly use the Strong's Concordance

The
Strong's Concordance
can be used effectively as an index of the occurrences of a lemma in the original languages of the Biblical texts (at least in those manuscripts used by the King James Bible, which is a limitation of this tool, although some later revisions of it have addressed this to some extent).

 

Strong's Concordance
is a great tool for identifying other occurrences of a lemma by using it's
number
(as this does not require that you can actually read the alphabet of the original language). This makes an original languages concordance accessible to those who cannot read those languages.

 

The gloss definition given by the concordance (or even a definition given by an outdated lexicon) can be helpful here in giving a general understanding of the lemma's meaning, but
this should not be used as the sole source to justify the meaning or definition of the word in a specific textual context.
However, it can help you see how the word has been translated in its other occurrences, which can give you a broader understanding of its
and how it is generally interpreted in similar contexts (using multiple English Bible translations will help catch differences and nuances of meaning, which can lead to good questions about the meaning of lemmata in
specific
contexts here on BH.SE, where someone versed in the original language can assist you in better understanding the passage). Pay close attention to differences in grammar, author, audience, genre, and historical setting as these can all influence the meaning of a lemma in a specific context.

 

Concluding warnings and encouragement

Strong's Concordance
is an index of occurrences of a lemma in the original language of the Biblical text, it is not a lexicon/dictionary (and thus is not a reliable source for the meaning of a lexeme in a specific context). However, this tool is a great resource for those who wish to better understand how a lemma has been understood by English Bible translators in its other occurrences, and Biblical study conducted using
Strong's Concordance
can provide the impetus for many good questions about the Biblical texts here where someone trained in the original language(s) can assist you further with understanding the meaning of a lexeme in a specific text of interest.

 

 

Source: https://hermeneutics.meta.stackexcha...-not-a-lexicon

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Sue D.

Thanks for all that info. Years ago my husband and I were going to a church where the pastor encouraged the congregation to study their Bible on their own at home. Great. Then he listed all the sources of study available in the process Of studying. And he said that the church library had all those study aids available if a person couldn't afford to get them. That was before on-line became to popular. But not everyone Has a computer, even nowdays and not everyone has easy access to a library. or wants to drive all the way to church to use It's library.

 

The end result being -- if it really takes That much study to understand the Bible -- since pastor already , apparently , has Had that much studying -- just rely on what He's teaching and don't worry about spending my time After spending all day at work - when I'm tired and simply want to relax and spend some time with 'my wife and kids'.

 

I was asking my husband about this -- he was in the pastorate for 5 years, went to a Calvinist Bible college and 1 yr of seminary. Both he and my brother-in-law took Greek -- b-i-l learned Portugese in order to minister in Brazil for 40 years. In seminary, the Greek class consisted of translating the book of John from Greek to English. My husband spent more time doing word studies -- finding the various uses of various words throughout the Bible -- KJV. He didn't really spend That Much time getting into the various nuances of various words.

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

While in seminary, it bothered him that student's expected professors to have 'all the answers'. And there were many professors who Did Try to have answers to 'unanswerable' questions. He said he had More respect for one of the profs who told students that he Didn't have answers to some of their questians. That That wasn't really his job. Students Did need to realize that the Bible Is God's Word -- we study it for ourselves.

 

I've sort of wondered 'how did pastors learn what they taught congregations' Before Bible colleges came into being. All they had was the Bible to compare Scriptures with other Scriptures -- reading/ outlining passages.

 

Is it Possible that we make Bible study Too complicated?

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

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reformed baptist

Your questions are fair :RpS_thumbsup:

 

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

Notice the Typo's!

 

I'm a full time pastor - in a little over an hour I will be out working with community teenagers for the evening - it is normal for me to have something 'evengalist' lined up for most days - sometimes it is something organised sometimes a little more impromptu - I do door to door visiting as a kind of filler for when no other opportunbities present themselves :D

 

That being said, i try to model an evangelistic lifestyle - so witnessing to my neighbors etc.

 

I wish i was more gifted in this area - primarily I am a teacher (that is where my skill lies)

 

I actually post on forums to relax (it's kind of a busman's holiday)

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

To show myself approved!

 

I study because that is the gift I have - I read about 1000 words a min (with comprehension) and I want to use that gift to the best of my abilililty and I hope to honour God by sharing my learning with others - mainly my church but not exclusively - for example if I can just give one person pause to consider how the use as resource like Strongs and learn from that and it helps them handle scripture better then i am happy.

 

That being said I do need to go and get some dinner before I leave the house tonight :D

 

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Sue D.
Your questions are fair :RpS_thumbsup:

 

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

Notice the Typo's!

 

I'm a full time pastor - in a little over an hour I will be out working with community teenagers for the evening - it is normal for me to have something 'evengalist' lined up for most days - sometimes it is something organised sometimes a little more impromptu - I do door to door visiting as a kind of filler for when no other opportunbities present themselves :D

 

That being said, i try to model an evangelistic lifestyle - so witnessing to my neighbors etc.

 

I wish i was more gifted in this area - primarily I am a teacher (that is where my skill lies)

 

I actually post on forums to relax (it's kind of a busman's holiday)

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

To show myself approved!

 

I study because that is the gift I have - I read about 1000 words a min (with comprehension) and I want to use that gift to the best of my abilililty and I hope to honour God by sharing my learning with others - mainly my church but not exclusively - for example if I can just give one person pause to consider how the use as resource like Strongs and learn from that and it helps them handle scripture better then i am happy.

 

That being said I do need to go and get some dinner before I leave the house tonight :D

Thanks for sharing this with me.

 

You said "Notice the Typo's." what are you referring to?

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reformed baptist
Your questions are fair :RpS_thumbsup:

 

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

Notice the Typo's!

 

I'm a full time pastor - in a little over an hour I will be out working with community teenagers for the evening - it is normal for me to have something 'evengalist' lined up for most days - sometimes it is something organised sometimes a little more impromptu - I do door to door visiting as a kind of filler for when no other opportunbities present themselves :D

 

That being said, i try to model an evangelistic lifestyle - so witnessing to my neighbors etc.

 

I wish i was more gifted in this area - primarily I am a teacher (that is where my skill lies)

 

I actually post on forums to relax (it's kind of a busman's holiday)

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

To show myself approved!

 

I study because that is the gift I have - I read about 1000 words a min (with comprehension) and I want to use that gift to the best of my abilililty and I hope to honour God by sharing my learning with others - mainly my church but not exclusively - for example if I can just give one person pause to consider how the use as resource like Strongs and learn from that and it helps them handle scripture better then i am happy.

 

That being said I do need to go and get some dinner before I leave the house tonight :D

I often type so fast I make stupid mistakes - other times I'm on the move :D

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Sue D.
Your questions are fair :RpS_thumbsup:

 

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

Notice the Typo's!

 

I'm a full time pastor - in a little over an hour I will be out working with community teenagers for the evening - it is normal for me to have something 'evengalist' lined up for most days - sometimes it is something organised sometimes a little more impromptu - I do door to door visiting as a kind of filler for when no other opportunbities present themselves :D

 

That being said, i try to model an evangelistic lifestyle - so witnessing to my neighbors etc.

 

I wish i was more gifted in this area - primarily I am a teacher (that is where my skill lies)

 

I actually post on forums to relax (it's kind of a busman's holiday)

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

To show myself approved!

 

I study because that is the gift I have - I read about 1000 words a min (with comprehension) and I want to use that gift to the best of my abilililty and I hope to honour God by sharing my learning with others - mainly my church but not exclusively - for example if I can just give one person pause to consider how the use as resource like Strongs and learn from that and it helps them handle scripture better then i am happy.

 

That being said I do need to go and get some dinner before I leave the house tonight :D

A word like 'ability' is far easier to get too many 'ili's in it than to spell it correctly. Notice that you did it and it took me two tries to spell it correctly in 'this' post. :)

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Faber
The pragmatic effect of Deissmann's work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer's lexicon, published in 1886, was outdated shortly after it came off the press—yet, ironically, it is still relied on today by many NT students.)"2[/indent]

 

 

Hello RB,

 

Thanks for the information about Strong's Concordance.

 

I was wondering if you happen to know of any examples from Thayer's lexicon that are in error or perhaps not as clear as it could be.

 

Thanks

Faber

 

Edit: If this is off topic perhaps this can be for a new thread (?)

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reformed baptist
The pragmatic effect of Deissmann's work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer's lexicon, published in 1886, was outdated shortly after it came off the press—yet, ironically, it is still relied on today by many NT students.)"2[/indent]

 

 

Hello RB,

 

Thanks for the information about Strong's Concordance.

 

I was wondering if you happen to know of any examples from Thayer's lexicon that are in error or perhaps not as clear as it could be.

 

Thanks

Faber

 

Edit: If this is off topic perhaps this can be for a new thread (?)

Perhaps one of the classic examples is the root fallacy, for example παράκλητος - thayer goes down the line of basing the meaning on the root words but that seems inadequate to convey the full sense of Jesus meaning - the paraclete is (in one sense ) a second Jesus - by that I mean 'a second God with man'

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Faber
The pragmatic effect of Deissmann's work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer's lexicon, published in 1886, was outdated shortly after it came off the press—yet, ironically, it is still relied on today by many NT students.)"2[/indent]

 

 

Hello RB,

 

Thanks for the information about Strong's Concordance.

 

I was wondering if you happen to know of any examples from Thayer's lexicon that are in error or perhaps not as clear as it could be.

 

Thanks

Faber

 

Edit: If this is off topic perhaps this can be for a new thread (?)

Okay. Thanks.

I have cited from Thayer's lexicon in affirming a point and intend on doing so in the future.

Do you think his lexicon is to be totally scrapped or used with caution?

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reformed baptist
The pragmatic effect of Deissmann's work was to render obsolete virtually all lexica and lexical commentaries written before the turn of the century. (Thayer's lexicon, published in 1886, was outdated shortly after it came off the press—yet, ironically, it is still relied on today by many NT students.)"2[/indent]

 

 

Hello RB,

 

Thanks for the information about Strong's Concordance.

 

I was wondering if you happen to know of any examples from Thayer's lexicon that are in error or perhaps not as clear as it could be.

 

Thanks

Faber

 

Edit: If this is off topic perhaps this can be for a new thread (?)

I quote from Thayer myself.

 

Like all resources (including scripture) caution should always be applied in how we use it - if we know a resources purpose and shortcomings then we can use it effectively - Thayer's work was a product of his time, and his theology (It is a Unitarian resource) - that being said it will add more depth and precision then just appealing to strongs :D - we don't all have access to BDAG :D

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Faber

Good points.

 

I do think though that there are instances within the lexicon that affirm Christ's Deity and that He is to be worshiped.

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reformed baptist
Good points.

 

I do think though that there are instances within the lexicon that affirm Christ's Deity and that He is to be worshiped.

Unitarians don't always deny the deity of Jesus - they usually redefine it :D

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Faber
Good points.

 

I do think though that there are instances within the lexicon that affirm Christ's Deity and that He is to be worshiped.

That's why it takes me quite a bit of time trying to use words which they won't keep redefining.

God - they'll agree and say something like He is a great representation of the Father so in that sense He is God.

 

So I use words or expressions such as "Supreme Deity" or the "Almighty" etc., etc.

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RazeontheRock
Thanks for all that info. Years ago my husband and I were going to a church where the pastor encouraged the congregation to study their Bible on their own at home. Great. Then he listed all the sources of study available in the process Of studying. And he said that the church library had all those study aids available if a person couldn't afford to get them. That was before on-line became to popular. But not everyone Has a computer, even nowdays and not everyone has easy access to a library. or wants to drive all the way to church to use It's library.

 

The end result being -- if it really takes That much study to understand the Bible -- since pastor already , apparently , has Had that much studying -- just rely on what He's teaching and don't worry about spending my time After spending all day at work - when I'm tired and simply want to relax and spend some time with 'my wife and kids'.

 

I was asking my husband about this -- he was in the pastorate for 5 years, went to a Calvinist Bible college and 1 yr of seminary. Both he and my brother-in-law took Greek -- b-i-l learned Portugese in order to minister in Brazil for 40 years. In seminary, the Greek class consisted of translating the book of John from Greek to English. My husband spent more time doing word studies -- finding the various uses of various words throughout the Bible -- KJV. He didn't really spend That Much time getting into the various nuances of various words.

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

While in seminary, it bothered him that student's expected professors to have 'all the answers'. And there were many professors who Did Try to have answers to 'unanswerable' questions. He said he had More respect for one of the profs who told students that he Didn't have answers to some of their questians. That That wasn't really his job. Students Did need to realize that the Bible Is God's Word -- we study it for ourselves.

 

I've sort of wondered 'how did pastors learn what they taught congregations' Before Bible colleges came into being. All they had was the Bible to compare Scriptures with other Scriptures -- reading/ outlining passages.

 

Is it Possible that we make Bible study Too complicated?

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

You asked about what Pastors did before Bible Colleges. The original 5 Churches, before 100AD, each had theological schools, aka seminaries. Before that, the 12 Apostles had Jesus for 3.5 years.

 

Pastors have never been without a valid means of learning.

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Sue D.
Thanks for all that info. Years ago my husband and I were going to a church where the pastor encouraged the congregation to study their Bible on their own at home. Great. Then he listed all the sources of study available in the process Of studying. And he said that the church library had all those study aids available if a person couldn't afford to get them. That was before on-line became to popular. But not everyone Has a computer, even nowdays and not everyone has easy access to a library. or wants to drive all the way to church to use It's library.

 

The end result being -- if it really takes That much study to understand the Bible -- since pastor already , apparently , has Had that much studying -- just rely on what He's teaching and don't worry about spending my time After spending all day at work - when I'm tired and simply want to relax and spend some time with 'my wife and kids'.

 

I was asking my husband about this -- he was in the pastorate for 5 years, went to a Calvinist Bible college and 1 yr of seminary. Both he and my brother-in-law took Greek -- b-i-l learned Portugese in order to minister in Brazil for 40 years. In seminary, the Greek class consisted of translating the book of John from Greek to English. My husband spent more time doing word studies -- finding the various uses of various words throughout the Bible -- KJV. He didn't really spend That Much time getting into the various nuances of various words.

 

I've been sharing with him the various threads of discussion during the days / weeks. He wonders how any of you guys have time to be out evangelizing.

 

While in seminary, it bothered him that student's expected professors to have 'all the answers'. And there were many professors who Did Try to have answers to 'unanswerable' questions. He said he had More respect for one of the profs who told students that he Didn't have answers to some of their questians. That That wasn't really his job. Students Did need to realize that the Bible Is God's Word -- we study it for ourselves.

 

I've sort of wondered 'how did pastors learn what they taught congregations' Before Bible colleges came into being. All they had was the Bible to compare Scriptures with other Scriptures -- reading/ outlining passages.

 

Is it Possible that we make Bible study Too complicated?

 

You sound Very Intellectual. Lots of studying -- but to what practical application. I don't mean to sound rude or anything. Just wondering.

 

You asked about what Pastors did before Bible Colleges. The original 5 Churches, before 100AD, each had theological schools, aka seminaries. Before that, the 12 Apostles had Jesus for 3.5 years.

 

Pastors have never been without a valid means of learning.

Pastors have always had God's Word to study.

 

I'm curious about your statement -- before 100AD had theological schools - the original 5 churches? Are you referring to the churches of Asia -- there were seven of them -- Paul's missionary journeys.

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Sue D.

Apparently the original Patriarch -- sat in Rome, Constaninople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem.

 

Hmmm -- we're not on the 'same page' as the saying goes. Or even maybe in the same book?

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RazeontheRock

You can't claim these are either not NT churches, nor that they are RC. These are the most significant churches in terms of teaching, after the Church spread outside of Jerusalem. This remained true for quite some time, and is an important part of Church history.

 

Are you really ready to claim that the Church in Jerusalem isn't important because Jesus didn't address it among the 7 in Revelation?!?

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reformed baptist

Can we please get back on topic - this thread isn't about the patriarchal churches and their provinces!

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Sue D.
Can we please get back on topic - this thread isn't about the patriarchal churches and their provinces!

Totally agree with you.

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RazeontheRock
Can we please get back on topic - this thread isn't about the patriarchal churches and their provinces!

 

Post #6 contains everything I wanted to say, which was to give assurance that Church leaders have never been without good instruction, left to fend for themselves.

 

You're telling us here that Thayers only counted as the best resource of its kind for a very short time, which is very helpful information, thank you!

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Sue D.
Can we please get back on topic - this thread isn't about the patriarchal churches and their provinces!

 

Post #6 contains everything I wanted to say, which was to give assurance that Church leaders have never been without good instruction, left to fend for themselves.

 

You're telling us here that Thayers only counted as the best resource of its kind for a very short time, which is very helpful information, thank you!

Everyone has had access to God's Word for hundred's of years since it was all put in print under one cover. And way before That in the form of manuscripts. While Jesus Christ was here on earth, we had Him giving His instructions. There have been Godly prophets in the Old Testaments

 

The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered.

 

So -- you're correct -- Church leaders have never been left to fend for themselves. God's Word is faithful. That was even Before Thayers or Strong's Concordance.

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2404

Reformed Baptist:

Sounds impressive - is impressive.

I wouldn't want to lock horns with you but what would that kind of battle accomplish?

Do you really believe that spiritual insight in gained by intellectual strength? The religious leaders during Christ's day probably were as skilled as any today and yet missed it.

I'm not questioning your position in Christ or the work you speak of. But could there be something greater that would hold when our intellect fails us? If so how can we build on that with the intellect. 

Again God bless you and the good work you do.

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Faber
5 hours ago, 2404 said:

 

Do you really believe that spiritual insight in gained by intellectual strength? The religious leaders during Christ's day probably were as skilled as any today and yet missed it.

 I think the answer to your first question is yes. It is not all there is to spiritual insight but it is a component of it. We are to love the Lord our God with all our mind (Mark 12:30). The religious leaders of Christ's day that rejected Him went by their tradition and not by what the Scripture taught.

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