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Zuno_Yazh

The Characteristics of Christ's Resurrection

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Zuno_Yazh

There lacks a universal consensus regarding the nature of Jesus Christ's resurrection.

 

Some believe that his dead body was restored to life as it was to begin with.

 

Others believe that his dead body was restored to life as a glorified body.

 

Still others believe that Christ's dead body is still dead, and its remains squirreled away somewhere on earth in a condition and a location known only to God so that Jesus could return to life as a spirit being disguised in a fully functioning human avatar; scars and all-- plus the capability to eat common foods.

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Dok

He arose. 40 days He witnessed. He ascended.

 

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reformed baptist
There lacks a universal consensus regarding the nature of Jesus Christ's resurrection.

 

Not among Bible believing Christians!

 

Some believe that his dead body was restored to life as it was to begin with.

 

I don't know anyone who believes that!

 

John 20:25-27 The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord." So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."

 

Clearly in the resurrection Jesus bore the scare of his death on his body - he was not restored to how he had been prior to his death.

 

Others believe that his dead body was restored to life as a glorified body.

 

Again who believes that?

 

We see two occasions in the NT where Jesus Christ is revealed in his glory and both of them had a profound effect upon those who saw him:

 

(i) the mount of transfiguration - "Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah "--

6 because he did not know what to say, for they were greatly afraid." (Mar 9:5-6)

 

(ii) on Patmos - "And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead." (Rev 1:17)

 

If Jesus Christ had been walking with people and talking to people in a glorified body we would expect to find similar reactions is every post resurrection appearance - after all we know what will happen when Jesus Christ does appear again in his glory - we are told every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that he is 'Lord' (Phil 2:10-11).

 

Whilst the scriptures are not specific on this point I would suggest that Jesus' body was glorified in the process of the ascension as the bodies of those believers who are alive at his return will be.

 

Still others believe that Christ's dead body is still dead, and its remains squirreled away somewhere on earth in a condition and a location known only to God so that Jesus could return to life as a spirit being disguised in a fully functioning human avatar; scars and all-- plus the capability to eat common foods.

 

I suppose some people may - it never ceases to amaze me just how mad and/ or bad some peoples beliefs actually are. However this kind of belief puts a person outside of the Christian faith, as it is a denial of basic gospel truth (1 Cor 15) - the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is not a matter of disagreement among Christians rather it is one of the defining beliefs of Christianity.

 

Edited by reformed baptist
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Zuno_Yazh

 

Some believe that his dead body was restored to life as it was to begin with.

I don't know anyone who believes that!

 

My statement "as it was to begin with" refers to his body's characteristics when it was laid to rest; viz: fully human and not yet glorified.

 

 

Others believe that his dead body was restored to life as a glorified body.

Again who believes that?

 

If you were once a Baptist, as your forum ID suggests, then you would know that it is commonly believed Christ rose from the dead with a glorified body.

 

 

others believe that Christ's dead body is still dead,

Again who believes that?

 

Were you to ask John Q and/or Jane Doe Jehovah's Witness if they believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, I can assure you they would answer in the affirmative. However, what the uninformed may not know is that you and they would not be speaking the same language as the conversation would be talking about two very different processes that go by the same name. In other words: you would find yourself thrown off by semantic double speak.

 

In Watchtower Society theology, an angel named Michael volunteered to come to the earth to die for humanity's sins. But in order to do so; he had to relinquish his angel existence to become a human existence seeing as how in Society theology it is impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a human being simultaneously. However, when Michael expired, he didn't go completely out of existence. Instead, his "life force" remained intact and was transferred to a human form.

 

But Michael's existence as a human being was only temporary. When his human form passed away on the cross, the Society claims that God transferred Michael's life force back into his angel form thus resurrecting his former spirit existence; leaving the corpse of his human existence in a permanent state of decease.

 

Michael's post resurrection appearances were done in what the Society calls a materialized body, viz: an avatar.

 

FYI: There are approximately 8½ million Jehovah's Witnesses

Edited by Zuno_Yazh
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reformed baptist
My statement "as it was to begin with" refers to his body's characteristics when it was laid to rest; viz: fully human and not yet glorified

 

Ok - I'm sorry for misunderstanding you!

 

If you were once a Baptist, as your forum ID suggests,

 

What do you mean?

 

I am a baptist in the truest and purest sense of the term

 

then you would know that it is commonly believed Christ rose from the dead with a glorified body.

 

Ok - can you provide citations to back up your assertion?

 

If this is generally taught among baptists (and I mean actual baptists here) then you won't have any trouble pointing out where this is stated in any of the baptist confessions of faith, and explaining why I have never heard it taught!

 

Were you to ask John Q and/or Jane Doe Jehovah's Witness

 

Let's just go back to what I said shall we?

 

In doing so we will see two things - first you have misquoted me! This is what I actually said:

 

I suppose some people may - it never ceases to amaze me just how mad and/ or bad some peoples beliefs actually are. However this kind of belief puts a person outside of the Christian faith, as it is a denial of basic gospel truth (1 Cor 15) - the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is not a matter of disagreement among Christians rather it is one of the defining beliefs of Christianity.

 

I didn't say "Again who believes that?" in regards to Your third point - only your second

 

Now, returning to what I did actually say you will note I never denied people believe this - however I am clear that anyone with such a belief is not a Christian - JWs are not Christians they are cult of Christ denying heretics - the fact that have to resort to this group for your evidence, makes my point, are you contending that JWs are Christians?

 

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Zuno_Yazh
If you were once a Baptist, as your forum ID suggests, then you would know that it is commonly believed Christ rose from the dead with a glorified body.

can you provide citations to back up your assertion?

 

 

Have you tried an internet search with Yahoo and/or Google?

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reformed baptist

Have you tried an internet search with Yahoo and/or Google?

 

I'm not making the claim - you are! The onus of proof lies with you

 

I'm also interested in the way you have glossed over your misquote of me

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Zuno_Yazh

One of the arguments for a glorified-body resurrection pertains to Jesus' ability to appear and reappear, and to walk through locked doors.

 

Well; Christ walked on water, restored withered limbs, cured people born blind, healed serious diseases like leprosy, restored dead bodies to life, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into wine, and levitated.

 

What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking through walls? Disappearing and reappearing? How hard could any of that really be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

 

It's curious how people can say they believe in miracles but yet cannot believe that God has sufficient control over the laws of nature to make a physical human body pass through solid objects. God can make stones shout out; so this other stuff can't be all that much harder for Him to do.

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reformed baptist
One of the arguments for a glorified-body resurrection pertains to Jesus' ability to appear and reappear, and to walk through locked doors.

 

Well; Christ walked on water, restored withered limbs, cured people born blind, healed serious diseases like leprosy, restored dead bodies to life, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into wine, and levitated.

 

What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking through walls? Disappearing and reappearing? How hard could any of that really be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

 

It's curious how people can say they believe in miracles but yet cannot believe that God has sufficient control over the laws of nature to make a physical human body pass through solid objects. God can make stones shout out; so this other stuff can't be all that much harder for Him to do.

Who has said this - I want a citation from a recognized baptist source - otherwise your claim remains unsubstantiated :D

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Zuno_Yazh
I want a citation from a recognized baptist source

 

 

I'm curious why you want a Baptist source when there are so many other Christian denominations to choose from.

 

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Sue D.
My statement "as it was to begin with" refers to his body's characteristics when it was laid to rest; viz: fully human and not yet glorified

 

Ok - I'm sorry for misunderstanding you!

 

If you were once a Baptist, as your forum ID suggests,

 

What do you mean?

 

I am a baptist in the truest and purest sense of the term

 

then you would know that it is commonly believed Christ rose from the dead with a glorified body.

 

Ok - can you provide citations to back up your assertion?

 

If this is generally taught among baptists (and I mean actual baptists here) then you won't have any trouble pointing out where this is stated in any of the baptist confessions of faith, and explaining why I have never heard it taught!

 

Were you to ask John Q and/or Jane Doe Jehovah's Witness

 

Let's just go back to what I said shall we?

 

In doing so we will see two things - first you have misquoted me! This is what I actually said:

 

I suppose some people may - it never ceases to amaze me just how mad and/ or bad some peoples beliefs actually are. However this kind of belief puts a person outside of the Christian faith, as it is a denial of basic gospel truth (1 Cor 15) - the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is not a matter of disagreement among Christians rather it is one of the defining beliefs of Christianity.

 

I didn't say "Again who believes that?" in regards to Your third point - only your second

 

Now, returning to what I did actually say you will note I never denied people believe this - however I am clear that anyone with such a belief is not a Christian - JWs are not Christians they are cult of Christ denying heretics - the fact that have to resort to this group for your evidence, makes my point, are you contending that JWs are Christians?

Backing up a bit -- you said you're '"a Baptist in the truest and purest sense of the term"' I'm Also a Baptist. What would make a Baptist 'the truest and purest sense of the term'. Why would a 'reformed' Baptist be any 'truer or purer' than any Other Baptist. Not trying to be nitpicking, just curious as to your terminology.

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Just Mike
He arose. 40 days He witnessed. He ascended.

Welcome to the forum Dok. Wish you had done and introduction as most new people do.

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Zuno_Yazh

-

Another popular defense of the glorified-body resurrection is located at John 20:11-16 where it's reported that Mary Magdalene didn't recognize Jesus at first when he spoke with her in the cemetery on the day his crucified dead body was restored to life

 

Well; the last time Mary saw Jesus in person, he was beaten and bloodied beyond recognition (Isa 52:14) and quite dead and laid to rest too. The last person on earth that Mary expected to encounter was Jesus alive, in good health, and all cleaned up.

 

I had a good friend some years ago who died of a heart attack in his forties. Every now and then I'll see a guy here and there who resembles my friend; but I know better than to think it's really him because he's dead. Well; I'm pretty sure that even had Mary seen a strong resemblance to Jesus in the man speaking to her, she would have instantly dismissed out of mind the likelihood that it was her deceased Jesus just the same as I quite naturally dismiss out of mind the likelihood that these other men I see every so often are my deceased friend.

 

When everything above is compounded with the fact that Ms. Magdalene's vision was very likely somewhat obscured by her weeping; it's no surprise to me that she didn't recognize Jesus right away.

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deade

Will His body look like it did when He ascended, from the Mount of Olives, or will it be brighter? He did not look glorious when he left.

 

I think Jesus' body might have been for recognition purposes. Also, to fulfill the prophecy that His body would not see corruption:

Psalms 16:10: "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." In any case I cannot see Jesus going for all eternity with those holes in His body.

 

Paul even suggested that He won't look the same: 2 Corinthians 5:16: "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more."

 

I think if we were to lay eyes on Jesus today, He would reflect the glory of the Father.

 

Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”

 

Matthew 16:27: “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

 

Matthew 24:30: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

 

Matthew 25:31: “When the Son of man of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

 

Luke 21:27: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

 

Mark 8:38: “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

 

Mark 13:26: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”

 

John 17:5: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

Edited by deade
typos

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reformed baptist

 

 

I'm curious why you want a Baptist source when there are so many other Christian denominations to choose from.

 

Because youy have claimed this is a staple of Baptist theology and, further to that you have question if I am truly a baptists because I claim to never heard such nonsense before from Christians.

 

Let me remind you of what you said!

 

If you were once a Baptist, as your forum ID suggests, then you would know that it is commonly believed Christ rose from the dead with a glorified body.

 

If you make a claim, it is up to you to prove it when your called out - I want properly cited sources

 

I also note that you don't seem to have taken the time to clarify your position on Jehovah's witnesses - you seem to have claimed they are Christians in your previous respones - is that what you believe?

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Zuno_Yazh

 

your position on Jehovah's witnesses - you seem to have claimed they are Christians in your previous respones - is that what you believe?

 

One of Webster's definitions of a Christian is: One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

In accordance with that definition, it isn't necessary for someone to actually believe in Jesus' teachings in order to qualify as a Christian; they only need to say they do. In addition, it isn't necessary to comply with his teachings nor even to know what they are.

 

That definition is very accommodating. I like it because it pulls the rug out from under bigotry and elitism.

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Zuno_Yazh

Jesus Christ is currently equipped with a glorious body.

 

†. Phil 3:20-21 . . Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

 

There's some things said about his glorious body.

 

1• It's human. (1Tim 2:5, Heb 2:5-9)

 

2• It's immortal. (Rom 6:9)

 

3• It's impervious to disease and the aging process. (1Cor 15:53)

 

4• It's capable of dining upon ordinary foods and imbibing ordinary beverages. (Luke 22:15-16, Matt 26:29)

 

5• It's visible to the naked eye. (Acts 1:11, Acts 7:56, Rev 1:7)

 

6• Its composition is different than that of a normal human body. (1Cor 15:50)

 

Now; the million dollar question is: When did Christ obtain his glorious body: at the moment of his resurrection, or a later date?

 

Well; I'm of the opinion that he obtained it a later date. Watch as I deliberately misquote John 2:19-21

 

"Destroy this temple, and I will replace it in three days. The temple he had spoken of was his body.

 

No, he didn't say he'd replace his body; he said he'd raise it up.

 

In context, "raise it up" refers to reconstruction. I know that's what it refers to because that's how the Jews understood Jesus' statement. In other words; the Jews understood Jesus to mean he'd rebuild the temple piece by piece, stone by stone, right back to its original condition from it's own rubble, sort of like putting Humpty Dumpty back together again so's the finished result wouldn't be another temple nor an improved temple; it would be the very same temple: the same architecture and the same materials-- absolutely no changes: nothing added, nothing altered, and nothing substituted.

 

So then; if Jesus' crucified dead body didn't undergo any modifications at the time of its recovery, nor for the next forty days; then when? Well; that's easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

The dead bodies of all Christ's believing followers are on track to be returned to life and then taken up to meet The Lord in the air (1Thes 4:14-17). On the way up, their resurrected bodies will undergo a sudden, miraculous transformation (1Cor 15:51-53).

 

I think it's pretty safe to believe that Christ's resurrected body underwent the very same process while on the way up to heaven as per Acts 1:9 so that today his body is no longer the normal human body it once was; but instead a supernatural human body to which all his believing followers' bodies will one day conform.

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reformed baptist

 

 

One of Webster's definitions of a Christian is: One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

In accordance with that definition, it isn't necessary for someone to actually believe in Jesus' teachings in order to qualify as a Christian; they only need to say they do. In addition, it isn't necessary to comply with his teachings nor even to know what they are.

 

That definition is very accommodating. I like it because it pulls the rug out from under bigotry and elitism.

 

 

You seem to struggle to give straightforward answers to simple questions but I'll take that as a 'yes' - you believe JWs are Christians!

 

 

 

 

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Sue D.

your position on Jehovah's witnesses - you seem to have claimed they are Christians in your previous respones - is that what you believe?

 

One of Webster's definitions of a Christian is: One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

In accordance with that definition, it isn't necessary for someone to actually believe in Jesus' teachings in order to qualify as a Christian; they only need to say they do. In addition, it isn't necessary to comply with his teachings nor even to know what they are.

 

That definition is very accommodating. I like it because it pulls the rug out from under bigotry and elitism.

Why would a person profess belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ , if , in fact, they didn't actually believe those teachings. It certainly Isn't Popular to believe His teachings. Why bother to 'give lip service' to teachings of a person or belief system if you don't know what they are and have no intention of following them. Does Not make sense.

 

In fact, it sounds fairly...........

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