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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Strebe

I think people who do not tell the truth

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2 hours ago, Becky said:

One can not  be a Christian while denying the Deity of Christ . That would be a lie. 

That is very true, @Becky. The most ancient sources for traditional Christianity ( as opposed to the condemned Gnostic and Arian heresies), namely Scripture and the Three Ecumenical creeds ( Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian ) affirm the Deity as well as the humanity of Christ. Here are some good chapters and verses to back that statement up: Matthew 1: 18-25, Luke 1:26-38, John 1: 1-5, John 1: 9-18. Here's a good source for the creeds that I'd mentioned earlier: http://bookofconcord.org/creeds.php.

Here's a link that catalogues the testimonies of the Early Church Fathers regarding the Person and role of Jesus Christ: http://bookofconcord.org/testimonies.php. 

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4 hours ago, ConfessionalLutheran said:

That is very true, @Becky. The most ancient sources for traditional Christianity ( as opposed to the condemned Gnostic and Arian heresies), namely Scripture and the Three Ecumenical creeds ( Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian ) affirm the Deity as well as the humanity of Christ. Here are some good chapters and verses to back that statement up: Matthew 1: 18-25, Luke 1:26-38, John 1: 1-5, John 1: 9-18. Here's a good source for the creeds that I'd mentioned earlier: http://bookofconcord.org/creeds.php.

Here's a link that catalogues the testimonies of the Early Church Fathers regarding the Person and role of Jesus Christ: http://bookofconcord.org/testimonies.php. 

I have done the same thing here.  Also note my references all predate Constantine I and the Council of Nicaea.

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4 hours ago, Barbara said:

Most of us use many bibles to do our studies.... If someone is more comfortable using KJV, (which is true here in the bible belt) then that is the bible I conduct studies from if the student is more comfortable with that..... 
I have trouble reading from KJV though because today we don't use that particular brand of speaking. lol

 

I'm also from the Bible belt, people here are most people hold the KJV in high esteem.

I was always under the impression that the NWT was the authoritatve version for JWs.

 

 

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On 3/26/2018 at 2:06 AM, reformed baptist said:

 

Wouldn't everyone be in jail if that was the case?

No, there would be an immediate incentive to be honest.  Truly, there is that but the idiots in and outside the Church write YHWH off as immaterial and often sweeking to impune those of us that live as pure a life as we can manage for the sakeof our Master and oh, how they despise Him being the Master.

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On 3/24/2018 at 1:51 PM, Innerfire89 said:

Depending on how much damage is done by the lie they can be sued for slander and possibly end up in jail. But liars will get what's coming to them when on judgment day.

Much more, the simplest lie, unrepentant, will send any Being into the Eternal Fire.

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18 hours ago, Barbara said:

I know people hate us (JW's). Jesus told us we would be hated. No surprises there....

 

Hi Barbara, I hope that's not true, of at least most true Christians anyway. I know I don't "hate" JW's, whether they are family members, friends, or the ones that used to ring my doorbell. I've typically found JW's (and LDS for that matter), to be both kind and reasonable people (so much so in the case of the JW's at my door that I've invited them in a couple of times to talk).

 

That said, if you guys are truly "Christian", then that means that we cannot be (and visa versa). While I do not hate you for believing what you do, I do believe the absolute best that can be said of many of the Watchtower's teachings/doctrines, especially in the areas of Christology & soteriology (and theology in general), is that they are deceptive. I hope you will continue to search for the truth about God and salvation, because if you believe what the Watchtower is teaching, I also believe you are trusting both a teaching and an organization that has been proven to be wrong.

 

--David
p.s. - my local JW's must consider me a lost cause, because they no longer come to my door to talk, or even to leave literature, though I assure you that I was never anything but cordial when I was talking to them in the past.

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10 hours ago, Bill Taylor said:

No, there would be an immediate incentive to be honest.  Truly, there is that but the idiots in and outside the Church write YHWH off as immaterial and often sweeking to impune those of us that live as pure a life as we can manage for the sakeof our Master and oh, how they despise Him being the Master.

We all lie, and we all lie to ourselves every single day, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?" - every time we think more of ourselves then we should, every time we think we are better then we are and so on we have born false witness - we would all be in jail. 

 

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10 hours ago, David Lee said:

p.s. - my local JW's must consider me a lost cause, because they no longer come to my door to talk, or even to leave literature, though I assure you that I was never anything but cordial when I was talking to them in the past.

Same here - used to be we would chat for about hour when one came round, nowadays I see those same people passing by my house and making a little note in their book. Interestingly whilst I have been called 'a minister of Satan' as a baptist pastor I have always tried to be reasonable. 

 

It is easy to dismiss a person and their arguments for any number of reasons (hate is a common one) especially when that person is seeking to tell us the truth about something we love dearly - but here is the thing. I believe that those who are not true followers of Jesus Christ face an eternity in hell - surely it would be hateful of me not to warn JWs and others of the danger I believe them to be in. 

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19 hours ago, reformed baptist said:

We all lie, and we all lie to ourselves every single day, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?" - every time we think more of ourselves then we should, every time we think we are better then we are and so on we have born false witness - we would all be in jail. 

 

It particularly pains me to see any sort of a Christian surrender to Satan but another Baptist?  And I have held my tongue until you opened with an attack, shame on you!  We do not all intentionally commit any sin as your dishonest attack implies.  That is not true of the long term saved... if they are saved they have pierced their Spiritual Ear and do their immediate Spiritual Best to live obediently because we have submitted to our Master!

 

Now, the matter I have been so uncomfortably quiet about.  I have no idea what a Reformed Baptist is but I am absolutely certain they have no truck with Conservative, Fundamental; Southern Baptists, American Baptists nor Missionary Baptists, all of us know the lack of a Capital Letter on the titles of our faith is the same as spelling YHWH as yhwh and they are both influenced by the ungodly slack teachings of Satan and his worms.

 

You might want to download the free e-Sword Bible Study Program, load it with a few of the free Bibles and the free copy of the Nave's Topical Study Bible and begin to learn about the people that will end up in the Eternal Lake of Fire and how to avoid being one of them.

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It is easy to forget how much we ourselves have lied to ourselves and others in our lifetime. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3%3A10-18&version=KJV

 

Therefore verse 13 applies to each one of us. I have recently been convicted of how much of an serial omitter of truth I had been, justifying its use for self protection each time. A half-truth is still a lie.  https://www.compellingtruth.org/sin-of-omission.html

Therefore if a single lie is enough for a jail sentence each one of us would be in jail. 

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The original post was regarding lies told by someone about others...... We know that Satan is the father of the lie, so if one lies on another, or bares false witness, it is deserving of punishment.

(Proverbs 19:5) . . .A false witness will not go unpunished, And the one who lies with every breath will not escape. . .


The heart condition of a person either gives rise to the truth or they will lie. 

(Colossians 3:9, 10) . . .Do not lie to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10 and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,

 

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9 hours ago, Bill Taylor said:

It particularly pains me to see any sort of a Christian surrender to Satan but another Baptist?  And I have held my tongue until you opened with an attack, shame on you!  We do not all intentionally commit any sin as your dishonest attack implies.  That is not true of the long term saved... if they are saved they have pierced their Spiritual Ear and do their immediate Spiritual Best to live obediently because we have submitted to our Master!

 

Now, the matter I have been so uncomfortably quiet about.  I have no idea what a Reformed Baptist is but I am absolutely certain they have no truck with Conservative, Fundamental; Southern Baptists, American Baptists nor Missionary Baptists, all of us know the lack of a Capital Letter on the titles of our faith is the same as spelling YHWH as yhwh and they are both influenced by the ungodly slack teachings of Satan and his worms.

 

You might want to download the free e-Sword Bible Study Program, load it with a few of the free Bibles and the free copy of the Nave's Topical Study Bible and begin to learn about the people that will end up in the Eternal Lake of Fire and how to avoid being one of them.

Bill, 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'an attack' nor am I entirely sure how to respond to your post so I'll let some of it go :classic_cool:

 

I am of the opinion that we are all works in progress, by God's grace there will come a time when we are conformed to the image of Christ, but until then the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak - if Peter could play the hypocrite (Gal 2:11-21) then I would be foolish to think otherwise of myself. In Col 3:9 Paul urges his readers to not lie to each other - that suggests that we are not just still capable of deceit, but that actually it is a very real temptation for us to face. I'm not going to make into heaven because I no longer sin, I am going to make it into heaven because Jesus Christ has paid for all my sin. 

 

As for a reformed baptist - historically we are better known as Particular Baptists and American Baptist groups all trace their origin through us. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barbara said:

The original post was regarding lies told by someone about others...... We know that Satan is the father of the lie, so if one lies on another, or bares false witness, it is deserving of punishment.

(Proverbs 19:5) . . .A false witness will not go unpunished, And the one who lies with every breath will not escape. . .


The heart condition of a person either gives rise to the truth or they will lie. 

(Colossians 3:9, 10) . . .Do not lie to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10 and clothe yourselves with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,

 

Barbara, 

 

What about when one's whole doctrine is based upon lies told by another - how should we respond to that kind of thing? 

 

 

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4 hours ago, reformed baptist said:

Barbara, 

 

What about when one's whole doctrine is based upon lies told by another - how should we respond to that kind of thing? 

 

 

As the subject matter is regarding lies told by someone about another person, the short answer is simply, lies are wrong and the one doing so should be held accountable.... The subject of this original post is not about the correctness of ones doctrine. And IF one relies on scripture regarding said "lie" topic, then there should actually be no problem here.
Scripture is emphatic regarding the lie and the one originally responsible for such.

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I said:

6 hours ago, reformed baptist said:

Barbara, 

 

What about when one's whole doctrine is based upon lies told by another - how should we respond to that kind of thing? 

To which you replied

2 hours ago, Barbara said:

As the subject matter is regarding lies told by someone about another person, the short answer is simply, lies are wrong and the one doing so should be held accountable....

 

I believe my post was entirely in line with the OP. If the false doctrine propagated by the person I mentioned is to do with the person of Jesus Christ for example - is that not a lie about another person?

 

Quote

The subject of this original post is not about the correctness of ones doctrine.

I never said it was - I merely asked a question by extension! How should we deal with the person who lies about Jesus Christ. I am not necessarily talking about the person taken in by the lie - but I am talking about the one who propagates the lie.
 

Quote

 

And IF one relies on scripture regarding said "lie" topic, then there should actually be no problem here.

Scripture is emphatic regarding the lie and the one originally responsible for such.

 

Ah yes, but we are talking about 'the lie' are we? 

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