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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Wisdom'sFruit

Is all that needs to be known about scripture known?

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Do you feel that, denominations tend to only cling to what was laid by denominational father's? With that said,are we to believe all that is to be understood in scripture - is a wrap?

Or is the Word Eternal and ever filled with revelation and meaning, that when revealed and found indisputable should be applied by believers? Is this continual REGENERATION?

Another words, is it sinful to believe it is a wrap and ones denomination is the begin and end all? I am not saying denominations have not served a purpose, but is there always more to learn

than perhaps we already know? Should we be open to this, that Christ continuously breaths life into His People?

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I dunno any denomination that believes that. However, as Protestants we follow the principle of Sola Scriptura. Any Protestant doctrine, Creed, or Confession should ultimately point back to Scripture which is the primary authority and standard of orthodoxy. In other words, we do not believe our doctrines, Creeds, or Confessions based on denominational authority, but rather because they convey the orthodox teaching of Scripture. For example, every denomination confesses the Nicene Creed, that is, we all agree to the central and essential truths conveyed from Scripture. Any "Christian" that rejects the Creed falls outside of a denomination (Cult or Sect). And this is not because they reject a Creed, but because they reject the central and essentials truths conveyed from Scripture.

 

And that is not what "Regeneration" means: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...eneration-mean

 

What you seemingly suggest reminds me of ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei (the church reformed, always reforming according to the Word of God)

 

God bless,

William

 

I know what REGENERATION means. Spiritual and physically= in even biology sense. We see continually regeneration in the multiple application of the Holy Spirit by Christ. It isn't just as you denominational father's state it:

Baptism- a beginning of regeneration. John20:21-22…21Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”… Another application of the regenerating Spirit. Acts 2:3-5…3They saw tongues like flames of a fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. 5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.…

 

Another application of the Regenerating Spirit of God. My point.... is regeneration a continual process for us on earth as- in multiple applications of the Holy Spirit like with the apostles? And what new things are you open to? And maybe you do not realize what regeneration means: Continual renewal. Regeneration on earth is necessary for us just as for the apostles. No, one is above them in that necessity.

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Do you feel that, denominations tend to only cling to what was laid by denominational father's? With that said,are we to believe all that is to be understood in scripture - is a wrap?

Or is the Word Eternal and ever filled with revelation and meaning, that when revealed and found indisputable should be applied by believers? Is this continual REGENERATION?

Another words, is it sinful to believe it is a wrap and ones denomination is the begin and end all? I am not saying denominations have not served a purpose, but is there always more to learn

than perhaps we already know? Should we be open to this, that Christ continuously breaths life into His People?

 

No! NOt all can be known! Every generation of believers start as clean slates.

 

All that god wanted us to know is written as far as the Word of God.

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First, you are wrong by stating that Protestants believe in Baptismal regeneration. Some do and some do not. Lutherans do and Reformed do not.

 

Second, you ignore the article I posted which already answers your question. The article was based on Scripture, and not denominational "fathers". A strawman argument you keep making.

 

Third, you seemingly want to put your hands to your ears and just blurt out what you want us to hear you say louder. Nobody is partially born again, just as they are either physically born into this world or not born into this world. You are confusing and blurring Regeneration with Sanctification.

 

Fourth, I couldn't care less about what your biology text book says, if you're going to use theological terms then learn the correct meaning. You'll be faced with either a Catholic vs Protestant definition which should be derived, ultimately, from Scripture. You will ultimately be faced with Church tradition (authority of Catholicism) vs Sola Scriptura (Protestant, Scripture alone).

 

Fifth, your Scriptural proof text has nothing to do with Regeneration. Baptism of the Holy Spirit may be distinguished from the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. It may also be distinguished from the indwelling work of the Holy Spirit, and also distinguished from that process of sanctification by which the Spirit of God works in our progress of being conformed to the image of Christ. Your proof texts show us principally what the Holy Spirit does when empowering Christians for ministry.

 

You should really read what is put to you and address it.

 

God bless,

William

 

I did NOT say all Protestants believe in Baptismal regeneration, I do. I did not say we are partially BORN AGAIN , you interpret what I said that way, I simply stated that there is a continual process of RENEWAL= Regeneration, concerning the Spiritual Application of Continuous knowledge. The Knowledge of God is Eternal so, there is ALWAYS something to learn. Hence continual REGENERATION. And this is proven in the Fact that the Apostles received multiple applications of the Holy Spirit which ALWAYS gave them NEW KNOWLEDGE and gifts. That is REGENERATION! Born Again is the the fullness of the Immaculate Conception leading to our Spiritual Virginity. Virginity means: unsoiled, untouched, CLEAN. Hence is why God the Father chose a VIRGIN. All that happens to the Hebrew of scripture happens to the Bride. Obviously, this in regard to the soul ." BORN AGAIN" a return to our purity as intended at creation spiritually. Lastly my hands are not over my ears, I am not misquoting you! You are misquoting me. As for my knowledge of biology..... the point is I know the meaning of regeneration in every sense of the word. And since Original Sin is passed from generation to generation prior to Christ- and has its affect on us physically , this means it IS PASSED DOWN THROUGH OUR DNA, this too is conquered in Christ. You are the ONLY ONE getting irate. And YES baptism is administered with the Holy Spirit, FOR JOHN WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, to make straight the way of the Lord. By telling us to confess and repent and be baptized. Anyone can say : 'Confess be baptized, but he being filled with the Holy Spirit means: It has a SUPERNATURAL affect on the recipient.

 

And the precursor to this is in 2Kings5:8-10Naaman Cured of Leprosy

…9So Naaman came with his horses and his chariots and stood at the doorway of the house of Elisha. 10Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, "Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh will be restored to you and you will be clean." 11But Naaman was furious and went away and said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.'…

 

Was it the water itself which cleansed him? Or was it the SPIRIT OF GOD? Though he protested he did what he was told and believed, and was cleansed. So John the Baptist did cleanse with the HOLY SPIRIT the stain of ORIGINAL SIN! And He instituted this RITE, by his anointing.

 

Now , dare try to tell me this too is wrong? And the irony of this? Elisha the protege of ELIJAH, the Spirit in which John the Baptist comes in- is this, precursor done. God Bless!

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I simply stated that there is a continual process of RENEWAL= Regeneration

 

Can a person claim to be saved right now or is that the sin of presumption?

 

 

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Can a person claim to be saved right now or is the sin of presumption?

 

How about this: Does regeneration stop? Can it be considered to be an eternal act? I get it... to Protestants regeneration is considered to be "Born Again" and that you believe you are "Born Again" and there is only one application of the Holy Spirit, though the Apostles had multiple applications in various degrees, each degree imparting new knowledge. So, Protestants think it is a wrap? And that they are the ONLY TRUE teachers of the world.

Titus 3:!-8

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. 3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

 

Here Titus uses regeneration as I do as a renewal of the Holy Spirit. And the washing he is referring to is baptism by water, hence WASHING; for the further cleansing then comes as FIRE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. This is continuing the initial beginning' of regeneration. First cleansing, once found then refinement by fire. And since the Holy Spirit is ETERNAL refinement is eternal.

 

Matthew 3:11John the Baptist told a large crowd that had gathered where he was baptizing, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

 

Now John we know was filled with the Holy Spirit and his portion was the baptism (cleansing water). He says He who comes after Him shall Baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. So , he is saying Christ too will baptize with the Holy Spirit and it is with the Fire portion of the knowledge which refines. And Titus is telling us regeneration is the washing and the renewal comes by Christ and renewal is the continuation of the first work with deeper affects. Does the Holy Spirit ever end? Can that which is eternal ever have a completion? The only completion there is, is that of the temporal and hence the putting to death of sin." IT IS COMPLETION " So, I am not wrong in my understanding of regeneration and renewal as ETERNAL and do not cease to be as Eternal as our Lord. This is my understanding of regeneration. And do not take one little portion of what I say as the sum of what I said. I will reiterate: then given in various degrees eternally as our Father is. God Bless!

Edited by Wisdom'sFruit

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Why would anything be a continual process if it was once and for all completed?

 

 

 

I must admit, I am thinking about shutting the door of the board on you.

 

God bless,

William

 

I will leave of my own accord. What I know is hard to digest for those set in their ways. I was not seeking a long drawn at battle of knowledge. I really thought- some of what I say would be received by whom it was intended for.God Bless!

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How about this: Does regeneration stop? Can it be considered to be an eternal act? I get it... to Protestants regeneration is considered to be "Born Again" and that you believe you are "Born Again" and there is only one application of the Holy Spirit, though the Apostles had multiple applications in various degrees, each degree imparting new knowledge. So, Protestants think it is a wrap? And that they are the ONLY TRUE teachers of the world.

Titus 3:!-8

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. 3 For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

 

Here Titus uses regeneration as I do as a renewal of the Holy Spirit. And the washing he is referring to is baptism by water, hence WASHING; for the further cleansing then comes as FIRE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. This is continuing the initial beginning' of regeneration. First cleansing, once found then refinement by fire. And since the Holy Spirit is ETERNAL refinement is eternal.

 

Matthew 3:11John the Baptist told a large crowd that had gathered where he was baptizing, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

 

Now John we know was filled with the Holy Spirit and his portion was the baptism (cleansing water). He says He who comes after Him shall Baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. So , he is saying Christ too will baptize with the Holy Spirit and it is with the Fire portion of the knowledge which refines. And Titus is telling us regeneration is the washing and the renewal comes by Christ and renewal is the continuation of the first work with deeper affects. Does the Holy Spirit ever end? Can that which is eternal ever have a completion? The only completion there is, is that of the temporal and hence the putting to death of sin." IT IS COMPLETION " So, I am not wrong in my understanding of regeneration and renewal as ETERNAL. They do not cease to be and is as Eternal as our Lord. This is my understanding of regeneration. And do not take one little portion of what I say as the sum of what I said. I will reiterate then given in various degrees eternally as our Father is. God Bless!

 

That's a long response without answering my question.

 

I'll put it this way: Can a Roman Catholic say (right now), "I am saved"?

Edited by Faber
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That's a long response without answering my question.

 

I'll put it this way: Can a Roman Catholic say (right now), "I am saved"?

 

Not if He is following Pope Francis.He is a heretic. If he applies the tenets of the faith taught in scripture and knows and confesses the statement of faith as revealed by the Holy Spirit in Elisabeth,then yes. The confessing by which all spirits must be tested is in Luke 1:42 "and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb" and we know this is only in reference to Mary and the Incarnation of Christ. All spirits must be able to proclaim this of Mary and Jesus whether in man or if a spirit claims to be from heaven and is delivering a message. " Blessed is Mary among women and Blessed is the fruit of her womb, Jesus" Elisabeth was the first outside of Gabriel the arch angel to make this confessing of the faith he said the same thing using different words " Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" You have found favor with God. This is what 1 John:4-6. is referring to. If this can not be confessed then we know the spirit of antichrist. To, not be able to say this or to refuse to- is to deny Christ came in the flesh.

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Not if He is following Pope Francis.He is a heretic.

 

 

I see. So was the RCC in error for choosing him?

I don't think he has yet but if he spoke "ex cathedra," is it to be ignored?

If he is a heretic and the current sitting pope, who then right now is the legitimate pope?

 

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Do you feel that, denominations tend to only cling to what was laid by denominational father's? With that said,are we to believe all that is to be understood in scripture - is a wrap?

 

Yes, as they have been deluded and deceived by 'imposters' and 'counterfeits' as Christians theologians, who 'twist' the teachings of the prophets and Apostles, and so they do other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

Second also yes, because 2Timothy3:16&17 verifies clearly for our believe and faith. And in believe and faith the divine teacher is bestowed upon us according to 1John2:26&27.

 

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Can a person claim to be saved right now or is that the sin of presumption?

 

 

Hello Faber,

 

I believe when we call ourselves saved, we are prophesying the future. Jesus says he that endures to the end shall be saved. I think it is OK with God to call ourselves saved as long as we keep the proper mental attitude. Once our hearts are fixed (like David) on Jesus, nothing will prevent us from finishing. When God calls things that are not as though they were, He also prophesying the future. Think about it.

 

Yours,

 

Deade

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Is English not your primary language?

 

God bless,

William

 

The problem here William, is not with my English entirely, but is about what i testify in faith, taught from the Scriptures in wisdom. Can you please re-quote from what you don't understand and we will take it from there in discussion, thank you....?

 

 

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Or is the Word Eternal and ever filled with revelation and meaning,

 

Yes, only to those who are born again and born from above, not only of water but also of the HOLY SPIRIT, and are spirit, one who is able to 'see' and 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD.

 

 

that when revealed and found indisputable should be applied by believers? Is this continual REGENERATION?

 

Remember that until today the Word of truth is disputed within our Christian clergies themselves, that resulted to growing number of denominations thus far, 'dividing' moreover the body of CHRIST to 'pieces'. And also 'these' have been picked up by outsiders witnesses and are likewise disputing in regards our faith, even 'mocking' and 'scoffing' our Scriptures, believe and faith. For they who claim to be Christians themselves, have ignorantly and blindly moved on or gone ahead from the Scripture teachings of JESUS and the Apostles. And moreover done so without the help of the HOLY SPIRIT and by sticking to as it is written, in faith alone practice and standing.

 

Since in faith, the Word Eternal is found undisputable by true believers, they have also applied them in their lives, and that is the actual continual REGENERATION. That is when they 'do/practice' and 'abide' in the Word Eternal's teaching in the New Covenant, that they may bear much fruit, and their fruit should abide as well....

Edited by fredjames

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Can a person claim to be saved right now or is that the sin of presumption?

 

 

Yes once a person is saved- they are saved and kept forever by the grace of God so we can say we are saved!

 

Not because we are earning it- but because it is kept for us by Jesus Christ HImself!

 

Remember Phillipians :

[h=1]Philippians 1:6King James Version (KJV)[/h]

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

Edited by nolidad
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Yes, as they have been deluded and deceived by 'imposters' and 'counterfeits' as Christians theologians, who 'twist' the teachings of the prophets and Apostles, and so they do other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

Second also yes, because 2Timothy3:16&17 verifies clearly for our believe and faith. And in believe and faith the divine teacher is bestowed upon us according to 1John2:26&27.

 

Fredjames. Please, can you name some "Christian Theologians" who are "imposters" and "counterfeits" who "twist" "the teachings of the prophets and Apostles, and so do other Scriptures, to their own destruction""

 

If you sincerely think what you said should be a warning, please be more direct and give examples.

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