Jump to content

The Protestant Community

Sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Christian Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Hidden Manna

Daniel 9:24

Recommended Posts

Staff
2 minutes ago, Origen said:

Christ kingdom knows no borders nor is it limited to any one race.

The meek shall inherit the earth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, deade said:

So you agree that God will gather physical Israel instead of saving a complete nation (salvation wise). Amos 9:9 speaks of God gathering Israel for the millennial reign, right?  

God is going to gather physical Israel (that believe) along with believing Gentiles. Christ's Church is not a separate entity in His Plan of Salvation for Israel. God's Church is... His Israel. The name Israel was originally tied to the Abrahamic covenant through God's Birthright. The majority of the children of Israel were made up by the northern ten tribes which were scattered first, i.e., the "house of Israel". When God gave ten tribes to king Jeroboam (of the tribe of Ephraim), and Israel became a separate kingdom in the northern lands of Israel, that is when they specifically began to be called the "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel". Those titles did not apply to the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea. The Jews were a separate kingdom, and remained in the land when the northern ten tribes were scattered. This is Bible 101 in 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17.

 

Via Hosea, God revealed how the house of Israel would lose their knowledge of being part of old Israel, no longer recognizing the feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc., essentially becoming as Gentiles. He said He would hedge up their paths so they wouldn't know their way back. God revealed there also He would not do this to Judah (Jews). And that's why the Jews still today recognize the feasts days, new moons, sabbaths, etc., still with knowledge of their heritage as the children of Israel.

 

The majority of the seed of Israel was scattered among the Gentiles and received The Gospel as Gentiles, with Gentiles, once the Jews rejected it. When Jesus returns, that is when the whole world will know what God did to the "house of Israel", and they will then know about their heritage as the seed of Israel (Ezek.37 & 39). Thus both the seed of Israel will be saved, along with believing Gentiles, as the majority of the scattered ten tribes already are part of today's Christian Churches among Gentile believers, and make up as many as the stars of the sky, and sands of the sea. It's only the majority of orthodox Jews representing the "house of Judah" that today still reject Jesus. God will save them too like Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11, because Paul showed it was God That blinded the majority of the Jews away from The Gospel so it could go to the Gentiles.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

" When your DF friends tell you they do not and never have preached 'another Gospel."

" The rejection of Christ wrenched the Jewish nation out of a direct and ongoing relationship with God.. Christ alluded to this disengagement in His words ' Behold your house is left unto you desolate (M 23;33) . In other words the the kingdom cannot come until there is a rebirth of that nation. This will eventually come when the feet of Jesus Christ will touch the Mt of Olives,after judgement of the forces of Antichrist has come. It is THEN that the true remnant will receive their Messiah whom they have rejected during this long period know as 'The Times of the Gentiles'....

Paul was converted ahead of time as it were. and his conversion was unique in that he was not brought to Christ not 
through the preaching of the Gospel, but rather by the personal revelation of the glorified and ascended Son of God. IN LIKE MANNER THE TRUE REMNANT WILL BE CONVERTED QUICKLY AS THEY SEE CHRIST IN PERSON COMING TO ESTABLISH HIS MESSIANIC KINGDOM.

Prophetic Truth For Today J. E. Dahlin pgs 32,45 emphasis added.

Should the claim be made this is some renegade not part of the mainstream, the work is introduced by Wm Culbertson, President of Moody Bible Institute, and back cover note include praise from L T Talbot and J F Walvoord.

 

The above in not the Cross. It is another gospel .

 

Gal_6:14  But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 


 

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Becky said:

" When your DF friends tell you they do not and never have preached 'another Gospel."

" The rejection of Christ wrenched the Jewish nation out of a direct and ongoing relationship with God.. Christ alluded to this disengagement in His words ' Behold your house is left unto you desolate (M 23;33) . In other words the the kingdom cannot come until there is a rebirth of that nation. This will eventually come when the feet of Jesus Christ will touch the Mt of Olives,after judgement of the forces of Antichrist has come. It is THEN that the true remnant will receive their Messiah whom they have rejected during this long period know as 'The Times of the Gentiles'....

Paul was converted ahead of time as it were. and his conversion was unique in that he was not brought to Christ not 
through the preaching of the Gospel, but rather by the personal revelation of the glorified and ascended Son of God. IN LIKE MANNER THE TRUE REMNANT WILL BE CONVERTED QUICKLY AS THEY SEE CHRIST IN PERSON COMING TO ESTABLISH HIS MESSIANIC KINGDOM.

Prophetic Truth For Today J. E. Dahlin pgs 32,45 emphasis added.

Should the claim be made this is some renegade not part of the mainstream, the work is introduced by Wm Culbertson, President of Moody Bible Institute, and back cover note include praise from L T Talbot and J F Walvoord.

 

The above in not the Cross. It is another gospel .

 

Gal_6:14  But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

I'm not associated with the Moody Bible institute, nor any religious organization of man. I am non-denominational. Yet I recognize what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about the Israel in part which God blinded also being saved when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
KJV

 

Paul says there God blinded the Israel in part, which he is talking about the majority of his brethren the Jews. And so it is today, the majority of them still reject our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Rom 11:18-23
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
KJV

 

Paul tells us to not boast against them, because if we do, we no longer bear the Root. They were broken off because of 'unbelief', yet God is able to graff them in again if they do not remain... in unbelief. That right there is Paul showing God is not done with them.

 

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
KJV

 

God concluded them in unbelief? Yes. He blinded the Jews so The Gospel of Jesus Christ would go to the Gentiles. That means God influenced their belief, just as the Romans 11:7-8 verses reveal.

 

And right there, Paul reveals that in final, God is going to save them when the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in," and that fulness will not be complete until our Lord Jesus returns. They were blinded (spiritually with the "spirit of slumber" - stupor in the Greek) so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles (and actually to the scattered "house of Israel" that were among the Gentiles, and both became Christ's Church).

 

This is why in Romans 9, Apostle Paul said this to Gentile believers...

 

Rom 9:24-26
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He saith also in Osee, I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not My people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
KJV

 

That in Hosea (Osee) was written to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", not to Gentiles. Yet there Paul is quoting that from Hosea to Gentile believers on Christ Jesus. That reveals how God is not going to cast away the nation and children of Israel, but is going to preserve them, as Paul says, the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. When Jesus returns, the blindness put upon the Jews will be gone, and then the majority of them will believe. This is what Paul taught there in Romans.

 

Anyone rejecting that is rejecting The Gospel which Apostle Paul taught.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Paul taught the Cross.  Do you find salvation in anything other then the Cross. 

Cross meaning Our Lords birth death and resurrection.

God also had Paul record for us.

 

Rom_2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 
Rom_2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 
Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 
Gal_3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 
Col_3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
52 minutes ago, davy said:

I'm not associated with the Moody Bible institute, nor any religious organization of man. I am non-denominational. Yet I recognize what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about the Israel in part which God blinded also being saved when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

You trust your understanding of Scripture so you you do associate with a mans organization your own. 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
On 9/6/2018 at 1:37 PM, davy said:

God is going to gather physical Israel (that believe) along with believing Gentiles. Christ's Church is not a separate entity in His Plan of Salvation for Israel. God's Church is... His Israel. The name Israel was originally tied to the Abrahamic covenant through God's Birthright. The majority of the children of Israel were made up by the northern ten tribes which were scattered first, i.e., the "house of Israel". When God gave ten tribes to king Jeroboam (of the tribe of Ephraim), and Israel became a separate kingdom in the northern lands of Israel, that is when they specifically began to be called the "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel". Those titles did not apply to the Jews of the southern "kingdom of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea. The Jews were a separate kingdom, and remained in the land when the northern ten tribes were scattered. This is Bible 101 in 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17.

 

Via Hosea, God revealed how the house of Israel would lose their knowledge of being part of old Israel, no longer recognizing the feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc., essentially becoming as Gentiles. He said He would hedge up their paths so they wouldn't know their way back. God revealed there also He would not do this to Judah (Jews). And that's why the Jews still today recognize the feasts days, new moons, sabbaths, etc., still with knowledge of their heritage as the children of Israel.

 

The majority of the seed of Israel was scattered among the Gentiles and received The Gospel as Gentiles, with Gentiles, once the Jews rejected it. When Jesus returns, that is when the whole world will know what God did to the "house of Israel", and they will then know about their heritage as the seed of Israel (Ezek.37 & 39). Thus both the seed of Israel will be saved, along with believing Gentiles, as the majority of the scattered ten tribes already are part of today's Christian Churches among Gentile believers, and make up as many as the stars of the sky, and sands of the sea. It's only the majority of orthodox Jews representing the "house of Judah" that today still reject Jesus. God will save them too like Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11, because Paul showed it was God That blinded the majority of the Jews away from The Gospel so it could go to the Gentiles.

 

 

Sill no answer to my questions.

 

You cited: "He will gather the house of Israel (lost ten tribes) like grain through a sieve, and not the least grain will fall to the ground."

 

Then you claimed "I'm using the KJV, and the only word added in that passage is the word "corn."  By the way you left out several words.

 

Here is the KJV.  "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth."

 

Show me the word "gather" in the KJV?

 

You also stated: "The rest IS written... in the Massoretic texts which the KJV translators used."


Here is the masoretic text for the same verse.

 

כִּֽי־הִנֵּ֤ה אָֽנֹכִי֙ מְצַוֶּ֔ה וַהֲנִע֥וֹתִי בְכָֽל־הַגּוֹיִ֖ם אֶת־בֵּ֣ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל כַּאֲשֶׁ֤ר יִנּ֙וֹעַ֙ בַּכְּבָרָ֔ה וְלֹֽא־יִפּ֥וֹל צְר֖וֹר אָֽרֶץ

 

Which word is the Hebrew verb "to gather"?

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/7/2018 at 12:13 PM, Becky said:

You trust your understanding of Scripture so you you do associate with a mans organization your own. 

That's not a realistic assumption on your part.

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/7/2018 at 12:11 PM, Becky said:

Paul taught the Cross.  Do you find salvation in anything other then the Cross. 

Cross meaning Our Lords birth death and resurrection.

God also had Paul record for us.

 

Rom_2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 
Rom_2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 
Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 
Gal_3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 
Col_3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 
 

Christ Jesus is the only Way of Salvation. Even when the Jews which God blinded so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, even when their blindness is removed, they must still choose to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. As Christians, we should never have doubts about that requirement to believe.

 

Even Saul, after Jesus had struck him down on the road to Damascus, Saul still had to believe. It's just that our Lord Jesus directly intervened with Saul (Paul), as The LORD can speak and cause one to 'know' beyond any doubt Who is speaking.

 

God still has a chosen elect that He chose before the foundation of the world. So if you feel slighted because He chose the seed of Israel as caretakers of His Salvation Plan, then you'll have to take that wondering why up with Him. And Christ's Apostles in His future Kingdom will sit upon thrones over the 12 tribes of Israel, as written, meaning, Israel shall never stop being a nation unto God, just as He said in Jeremiah 33:20-26,

 

Nor are the nations which God created going to go away either, as shown at the end of Zechariah 14 and in Revelation. Christ's elect will reign over them too, as His Church is promised to reign with Jesus over the nations with "a rod of iron" (Revelation).

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
27 minutes ago, davy said:

Christ Jesus is the only Way of Salvation. Even when the Jews which God blinded so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, even when their blindness is removed, they must still choose to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. As Christians, we should never have doubts about that requirement to believe.

Quick question, since the rejection of Israel have any Jews died while rejecting Jesus Christ? And those Jews since then that are called to Jesus Christ, are they called to the theocracy of National Israel or the mystical union between Christ and the Church where there is neither Jew nor Gentile?

 

Israel (church) includes the nation of Israel but is not limited to national Israel. True Israel covers the entire globe from which the Elect of every tribe, tongue, and nation are called (inward).

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
45 minutes ago, davy said:

As Christians, we should never have doubts about that requirement to believe.

All men born in Adam are hardened and cannot receive the Gospel. There is no distinction between Jew or Gentile in respect to the natural man. Because one is born a Jew doesn't mean that they are in Christ.

 

Jesus reiterated that in John 3 one must be born again to Nicodemus. The natural man cannot see or enter nor even draw close to the object of faith John 6:44. John 3, the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus draws an allusion to Ezekiel 36:25-27. It applied to Jews then, and now.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, William said:

Quick question, since the rejection of Israel have any Jews died while rejecting Jesus Christ? And those Jews since then that are called to Jesus Christ, are they called to the theocracy of National Israel or the mystical union between Christ and the Church where there is neither Jew nor Gentile?

 

Yes, there have been orthodox Jews that died still rejecting Jesus. But flesh death does not mean death of one's soul/spirit. Christ's future Millennial reign of Rev.20 and Zech.14 will happen as written beginning at His return, and in that world to come, the "image of the heavenly" is what will be manifested on earth, for both Christ's Church, and the rebellious of the nations (see Isaiah 25 where Paul quoted from in 1 Cor.15).

 

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

 

That is about the very heart of Christ's enemies among the orthodox unbelieving Jews, being made to bow in worship at the feet of Christ's elect (His Church) in that future world to come right after Christ's return.

 

I don't use terms like "theocracy of National Israel", they aren't part of Scripture. As I have said before on other posts, and which no one ever commented about, the name Israel is the Salvation name tied to the Abrahamic covenant of God's Birthright. One can easily read Bible history about Jacob in the Book of Genesis of how the name Israel came about. Its definition is about 'prevailing with God'. It's the same overcoming idea our Lord Jesus used in Revelation in His Messages to the seven Churches.

 

The way the name Israel is tied to the Abrahamic covenant is through God's Birthright, which is about the inheritance God promised to Abraham via his Faith on The Promise (Gospel actually). In Galatians 3, Apostle Paul covered this idea of the promise to Abraham, and the inheritance, as we (Church) also are joined in that with faithful Abraham, having become the "children of Abraham" even according to Paul's analogy. Well, God's Birthright promises were part of that also, care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ included with it. Eventually the name Israel was given to Jacob to symbolize God's Plan of Salvation through Jesus, and His Birthright promises (our inheritance WITH Abraham per Paul in Galatians 3).

 

1 Chron 5:1-2
5:1  Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

2  For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)
KJV

 

God's Birthright promises begin in Genesis with Abraham, then his son Isaac, then his son Jacob, and then to his son Joseph, and then finally to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where it stopped and still is today. Thing is, the majority don't know who or where God's Birthright is today, because they have not looked for where those promises from God have been fulfilled today, and they certainly have not been fulfilled among the unbelieving Jews.

 

Gal 3:7-9
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

 

Gal 3:14
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

 

Did we as Gentiles receive only... The Spirit through our Faith? Is that all that Christ's Salvation is about? No, there is more; there is an inheritance, and Paul did not discard it when explaining about the promise by faith to Abraham...

 

Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
KJV

 

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

 

What all did God promise to Abraham per the Book of Genesis? That's what many should take time to study, because God's Birthright continued with Christ's Church under the New Covenant. So can we really try to separate believers of the seed of Israel apart from Christ's Church? No. Nor can Gentile believers separate God's promises to Israel apart from Christ's Church. Christ's Church is... God's Israel today. Those who still reject Jesus in the world to come will be cut off.

 

 

Edited by davy

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, William said:

All men born in Adam are hardened and cannot receive the Gospel. There is no distinction between Jew or Gentile in respect to the natural man. Because one is born a Jew doesn't mean that they are in Christ.

 

Jesus reiterated that in John 3 one must be born again to Nicodemus. The natural man cannot see or enter nor even draw close to the object of faith John 6:44. John 3, the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus draws an allusion to Ezekiel 36:25-27. It applied to Jews then, and now.

 

I don't care to get into long discussions about the concept of predestination, but that's basically what you're talking about. And it seems you haven't yet understood what all our Lord Jesus prayed in John 17 regarding His chosen elect.

 

Also, the conversion event of Saul (Apostle Paul) in Acts 9 is an unmistakable example showing how The LORD has chosen an elect and directly affects their free will. This is why Jesus simply told His Apostles to follow Him, and they got up, left what they were doing, and followed Him, asking no questions. It shows He already owned them, had chosen them already. This He did not do for everyone, it should be obvious.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
8 minutes ago, davy said:

What all did God promise to Abraham per the Book of Genesis? That's what many should take time to study, because God's Birthright continued with Christ's Church under the New Covenant. So can we really try to separate believers of the seed of Israel apart from Christ's Church? No. Nor can Gentile believers separate God's promises to Israel apart from Christ's Church. Christ's Church is... God's Israel today. Those who still reject Jesus in the world to come will be cut off.

You have an Israeleo-centric way of thinking. It assumes that the temporary, national people was, in fact, intended to be the permanent arrangement. Such a way of thinking is contrary to the promise in Gen. 3:15. The promise was that there would be a Savior. The national people was only a means to that end, not an end in itself. According to Paul in Ephesians 2:11-22, in Christ the dividing wall has been destroyed. It cannot be rebuilt. The two peoples (Jews and Gentiles) have been made one in Christ. Among those who are united to Christ by grace alone, through faith alone, there is no Jew nor Gentile (Rom. 10:12; Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11).

 

1 minute ago, davy said:

I don't care to get into long discussions about the concept of predestination, but that's basically what you're talking about. And it seems you haven't yet understood what all our Lord Jesus prayed in John 17 regarding His chosen elect.

 

Also, the conversion event of Saul (Apostle Paul) in Acts 9 is an unmistakable example showing how The LORD has chosen an elect and directly affects their free will. This is why Jesus simply told His Apostles to follow Him, and they got up, left what they were doing, and followed Him, asking no questions. It shows He already owned them, had chosen them already. This He did not do for everyone, it should be obvious.

You'd be right about not going into Predestination because you'd be missing the point entirely. You should really try to address the Scriptures put to you rather than begin in a game of scriptural ping pong.

 

I'm convinced that not only is your soteriology horrible and should be rejected, but that you have removed the urgency for the Jewish people. No doubt your national Israel fan fare and patriotism are unmatched.

 

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, William said:

You have an Israeleo-centric way of thinking. It assumes that the temporary, national people was, in fact, intended to be the permanent arrangement. Such a way of thinking is contrary to the promise in Gen. 3:15. The promise was that there would be a Savior. The national people was only a means to that end, not an end in itself. According to Paul in Ephesians 2:11-22, in Christ the dividing wall has been destroyed. It cannot be rebuilt. The two peoples (Jews and Gentiles) have been made one in Christ. Among those who are united to Christ by grace alone, through faith alone, there is no Jew nor Gentile (Rom. 10:12; Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11).

 

You'd be right about not going into Predestination because you'd be missing the point entirely. You should really try to address the Scriptures put to you rather than begin in a game of scriptural ping pong.

 

I'm convinced that not only is your soteriology horrible and should be rejected, but that you have removed the urgency for the Jewish people. No doubt your national Israel fan fare and patriotism are unmatched.

 

Can you really omit God's 'eternal' promises to Abraham in Genesis 17? No. What you fail to realize is that God's promises to Israel is part of His Salvation Plan through Christ Jesus. The Church is not going to wind up floating on some ether in outer space in Christ's future Kingdom. His Kingdom is going to be manifested upon this earth, and the area of today's Jerusalem will be the center, which is the place God has chosen to dwell forever.

 

The view you espouse appears to be an anti-Kingdom view, and that certainly is not the Biblical view of our Lord Jesus' future Kingdom.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. 
Jos 21:44  And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 
Jos 21:45  There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. 

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, William said:

You'd be right about not going into Predestination because you'd be missing the point entirely. You should really try to address the Scriptures put to you rather than begin in a game of scriptural ping pong.

 

I'm convinced that not only is your soteriology horrible and should be rejected, but that you have removed the urgency for the Jewish people. No doubt your national Israel fan fare and patriotism are unmatched.

 

Those are rash and very rude statements, and they actually reveal how little understanding you have regarding the concept of God's chosen elect, which I referred you to in John 17, our Lord Jesus' own words there.

 

And your last paragraph is even more false assumption. What I show from God's Word is what is written, and is SUPPORTIVE of the future conversion of the orthodox Jews which Paul said God blinded. And you throw out words opposite of what Paul said there, which I proclaimed directly from the Romans 11 Scripture?

 

You obviously are not who you want others to think you are here, and I have come to a website falsely promoting doctrines of men instead of God's Word as written.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Scriptures tell us exactly what the  Kingdom of God is. 

 

Rom_14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
38 minutes ago, davy said:

Can you really omit God's 'eternal' promises to Abraham in Genesis 17? No. What you fail to realize is that God's promises to Israel is part of His Salvation Plan through Christ Jesus. The Church is not going to wind up floating on some ether in outer space in Christ's future Kingdom. His Kingdom is going to be manifested upon this earth, and the area of today's Jerusalem will be the center, which is the place God has chosen to dwell forever.

 

The view you espouse appears to be an anti-Kingdom view, and that certainly is not the Biblical view of our Lord Jesus' future Kingdom.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I am referring to. You are not addressing anything including the scriptures put to you. You quoted Galatians 3:16, do you comprehend? 

 

And your following rant once again makes me believe you cannot discern the Scripures. Don't blame me for your lack of comprehension. You brought up predestination in response to what I wrote. I think that that act was trying to demonstrate your knowledge of the subject but it backfired because you evidently missed the point entirely. My rebuttal was not that predestination does not exist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
Just now, William said:

This is exactly what I am referring to. You are not addressing anything including the scriptures put you. You quoted Glatians 3:16, do you comprehend? 

 

And your following rant once again makes me believe you cannot discern the Scripures. Dont blame me for your lack of comprehension. You brought up predestination in response to what i wrote. I think that that act was trying to demonstrate your knowledge of the subject but it backfired because you evidently missed the point entirely. My rebuttal was not that predestination does not exist. 

William this person cannot even admit the fact that the word "gather" is not found in the KJV Amos 9:9.  There is no reason to believe he will even try to address anything that clearly refutes his view.

Share this post


Link to post
Staff
37 minutes ago, davy said:

Those are rash and very rude statements, and they actually reveal how little understanding you have regarding the concept of God's chosen elect, which I referred you to in John 17, our Lord Jesus' own words there.

 

And your last paragraph is even more false assumption. What I show from God's Word is what is written, and is SUPPORTIVE of the future conversion of the orthodox Jews which Paul said God blinded. And you throw out words opposite of what Paul said there, which I proclaimed directly from the Romans 11 Scripture?

 

You obviously are not who you want others to think you are here, and I have come to a website falsely promoting doctrines of men instead of God's Word as written.

 

@Origen wrote

Quote

William this person cannot even admit the fact that the word "gather" is not found in the KJV Amos 9:9.  There is no reason to believe he will even try to address anything that clearly refutes his view.

So tell me @davy how is your interpretation of Amos :9: 9   "What I show from God's Word is what is written"


@davy says this.

Quote

 

Just as God is able to preserve an elect remnant to Himself, likewise those born of Israel He can turn back to Him in final. Each soul still must choose to believe on The Father and The Son, so that requirement isn't any different for Israel than it is for us Gentiles who have believed. And like He said through Amos, He will gather the house of Israel (lost ten tribes) like grain through a sieve, and not the least grain will fall to the ground (Amos 9:9).


 

When Amos 9:9 is quoted it says this. Amo 9:9  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I was talking to a Rabbi and he asked where i got my Spiritual fill.

When i replied, "Yeshua", he said, something like, oh, well thank you for not pushing it.

Now i have heard we are doing a great disservice to the Jew if we do not proclaim Jesus to them, but if they have been blinded and hardened, does anyone think they will be judged under the Law? If they don't want the Gospel, God already said they were gonna reject it so i let it go. I find predestination a semi interesting subject to listen to, but like eternity that i cannot comprehend, why God would predestine a very small part and leave the rest to die. Why bother with anything then? This must be a thread somewhere...

Edited by Even So
clarify?

Share this post


Link to post
Staff

Rom 10:12  For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 

Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 
Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. 

 

Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/16/2018 at 8:57 PM, Even So said:

I was talking to a Rabbi and he asked where i got my Spiritual fill.

When i replied, "Yeshua", he said, something like, oh, well thank you for not pushing it.

Now i have heard we are doing a great disservice to the Jew if we do not proclaim Jesus to them, but if they have been blinded and hardened, does anyone think they will be judged under the Law? If they don't want the Gospel, God already said they were gonna reject it so i let it go. I find predestination a semi interesting subject to listen to, but like eternity that i cannot comprehend, why God would predestine a very small part and leave the rest to die. Why bother with anything then? This must be a thread somewhere...

Some of it I covered right here on this Thread. But there are some here that don't want to hear how God in final is going to turn the orthodox Jews in majority, to Christ Jesus.

 

Apostle Paul in Romans 11 told us believing Gentiles to not be conceited over the unbelieving Jews who still reject Jesus. That because God put the "spirit of slumber" upon them so that they are not given 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'.

 

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
KJV

 

Paul said there "And so all Israel shall be saved:..," quoting from OT Isaiah. He said they are enemies as concerning The Gospel, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. And that the gifts of calling of God are without repentance, meaning God will not go against having chosen them.

 

Thus The Gospel had to be preached at Jerusalem first, and the majority of Jews ordained to reject it, so it could then go to the Gentiles, which among the Gentiles are the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel mixed in among them, with those in mass becoming Christ's Church, and fulfilling the prophecy to Jacob that his seed would become "a company of nations" also (Gen.35). This is why The Gospel first took off like wildfire in the Christian West. For the majority of unbelieving Judah, in final they will be turned once God removes that "spirit of slumber" He put upon them so that we Gentiles could obtain mercy, and in turn they shall receive mercy.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...