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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Hidden Manna

The wisdom of this world, or the Wisdom of God

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The wisdom of the world or the wisdom of God, which do you speak? We know by scripture that the world by its own wisdom knows not God. Just as we know the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, and that God made foolish the wisdom of this world. But most people still speak the wisdom of this world, including many carnal Christians. This concept is also shown in the parable of the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins. The wise had the wisdom that only comes from God by His Holy Spirit (oil in their lamps), but the foolish had the wisdom of the world by the spirit of this world; which would in turn leave them in the dark.

 

I believe the reason most carnal Christians still speak the wisdom of this world is because that is where they seek wisdom from. And that is from sources written by other carnally minded men, and not from the wisdom that comes from God alone by faith.

 

When Paul would speak foolishness he would say he speaks “as a man,” referring to the way a carnally minded man would think and speak. Paul would also say he speaks after “the manner of men” so that those who were yet carnal might relate to and even perhaps comprehend what he was saying. The carnal mind and manner of men is the same manner and mind of the natural brute beast, who understands not the spiritual things of God.

 

This is also why Paul would say to the carnal members of the congregation that he could not speak unto them as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal. Paul also said they “walked as men” meaning they were still walking according to the flesh.

This carnal mind is of the flesh and is guided by the spirit of this world, thus it speaks of what it knows naturally and often judges by outward appearances. These 2 minds flesh/Spirit also strive against one another, which is why they will never agree and are in constant conflict. This is also why there are so many different divisions in thinking and interpretations of scripture in the man-made church system today, because not all have the wisdom, Spirit and mind of Christ.

 

Paul shows these 2 minds/2 spirits here, one being the wisdom of the world, the other being the Wisdom that only comes from God.

 

1 Corinthians 2:4-14“And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

 

Jesus said he would give us a mouth and wisdom, so stop going to the wrong source for understanding and Wisdom in God's words. James 1:5-6 In Christ, Mark

 

 

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I think a big foolishness in this world is believing in macro-evolution and Neo-Darwinism and natural selection. DNA proves we were designed and created. The fine-tuning of the universe proves the universe was designed and created.

 

I believe in an old earth and old universe though. I believe the universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old and the earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old. I believe humans existed for approximately 400,000 years. I believe the literal days God was creating the earth eons were going by inside the universe. As the Bible states, one day is like a thousand years to God and a thousand years is like one day. I believe in Old Earth Creationism and the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis.

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I think a big foolishness in this world is believing in macro-evolution and Neo-Darwinism and natural selection. DNA proves we were designed and created. The fine-tuning of the universe proves the universe was designed and created.

 

I believe in an old earth and old universe though. I believe the universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old and the earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old. I believe humans existed for approximately 400,000 years. I believe the literal days God was creating the earth eons were going by inside the universe. As the Bible states, one day is like a thousand years to God and a thousand years is like one day. I believe in Old Earth Creationism and the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis.

 

Where do you get these ideas from about DNA, about the universe being 13.8 billion years old and the earth being 4.5 billion years old, and humans existing for 400,000 years? All these ideas are of men and are not of God. Adam was the first man, and we know his age and the age of his descendants in the Bible. We are given a record by God of approximately how many years it was from the first man Adam to Jesus, and it is most certainly not 400,000 years. God created heaven and earth in 6 literal days, and we are given what a day means in the context of creation in scripture, which is an evening and a morning = a day.

 

What people are trying to do is mix worldly knowledge (which is foolishness) and science (falsely so called) with what God said is true. Remember a little of mans leaven can leaven the whole lump.

 

 

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I argee, absolutly. I get tired of people trying to justify their reasoning as far as the interpretation of the Bible to calculate the beginnings of the Earth. We don't know this because we have only been told what we need to know by God, through the Bible.

 

I don't believe in the theories of man as it is the same mindset as those who go out on a limb and claim they have special knowledge, of how old the Earth is or when it will end. People who do these things want their 15 seconds of fame and like the Bible says. They will get their reward.

 

God gave us everything we need to survive and thrive in today's world. His son died so that we can have everlasting life in Heaven, so all aspects of our needs have been provided for. Speculation beyond that, we do allone without God and what comes from that is on us. I don't think I can count on one hand the times so person claimed they knew when the world would end and every time that that date came due, he and the rest of the community was mocked and laughed at. When will we learn that we are servants here living by the grace of God for the short time we are here. We can't be wasting that time by contemplating what we can't prove anyway.

 

Great points. I agree.

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Where do you get these ideas from about DNA, about the universe being 13.8 billion years old and the earth being 4.5 billion years old, and humans existing for 400,000 years? All these ideas are of men and are not of God. Adam was the first man, and we know his age and the age of his descendants in the Bible. We are given a record by God of approximately how many years it was from the first man Adam to Jesus, and it is most certainly not 400,000 years. God created heaven and earth in 6 literal days, and we are given what a day means in the context of creation in scripture, which is an evening and a morning = a day.

 

What people are trying to do is mix worldly knowledge (which is foolishness) and science (falsely so called) with what God said is true. Remember a little of mans leaven can leaven the whole lump.

 

 

DNA is so complex and specific it must be designed. It is a code known as the language of life. It encodes proteins for cell function. It proves God's existence.

 

The Bible lists generations of people, not necessarily every son and daughter. There could be great great great grandfathers in that listing in the Bible so the age of man is unknown. The best science can tell us is approximately 400,000 years so that is my best estimate as well. I don't have anything to refute that figure.

 

Also, I agree with the way the universe age is calculated. They look at doplar shifts of distant galaxies which show red as moving away for the expanding universe and calculate the rate of expansion. They can then reverse that calculation and determine the approximate age of the universe. I have nothing to refute this information.

 

God gave man wisdom to use and science is a part of man's wisdom so we should use it. It can be pretty clear using discernment and knowledge to detect when man is being deceitful. I find this in macro-evolution and Neo-Darwinism. DNA clearly proves the existence of a designer and creator and there is no evidence for macro-evolution and Neo-Darwinism so they should be thrown out.

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What I am talking about is that we don't know how long a day is to God, who has existed forever and time has no significance to him. He does things when he wishes and in his own sweet time. This idea that the days that God took to create all things was of a 24 hour, to us period is an assumption of our own and as such counts as the foolishness of man, riight along with those scientists you keep on talking about. You seem to forget that just because we are Christian, doesn't make us any more sentiant than any other human.

 

It has already been said that a day to God is like, and I will repeat LIKE a 1000 years. The days were a referance for us to use as a time period with which we could calculate the Sabath on. That is what I think and that has nothing to do with the time it took to create the universe.

 

I've heard over and over by those who equate their assumptions to Biblical fact when they say that the day for God is 24 hours as iof he needed the light of the Sun and Moon to see.

 

Excellent post. I agree.

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CDF47, I think you should consider this argument:

 

"The first three days of Creation involve the physical environment, and the next three days involve the filling of that environment. On day one God creates light, on day two He creates the sky. On the third day, God creates the terrestrial environment by gathering the water into one place and letting dry land appear in another. He then creates the plants, which are to serve as food for the life forms to be created on the subsequent days...On the fourth day, God creates the sun and the moon. If we were to suggest that the days of Creation represent long periods of time, our dilemma would be that the plants, created on day three, would have had to exist without a sun for millions of years." http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-Creation_week_evolution

 

Old-Earth Creationism is an attempt to blend the modern scientific theories with the Bible, but "can two walk together, except they be agreed?" Amos 3:3, and "what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Cor. 6:14. As Hidden Manna mentioned, the genealogy (specifically in Luke 3) is perfect from Jesus to Adam, and the ages can be approximated to add up to around 4,000 years before Christ. You can look up Ussher's chronology. Just some things to ponder. God bless!

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One thing to note is that the genealogy was only for the first borne male in each family that could continue that family line.

. Any number of those people referenced in the Bible could have had stillborn males and males that could not father children. I don't think they would have been documented because the line would end with them. Nothing was written until the one son that carried on the linage came to be born.

 

Very interesting. I wasnt aware of that.

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CDF47, I think you should consider this argument:

 

"The first three days of Creation involve the physical environment, and the next three days involve the filling of that environment. On day one God creates light, on day two He creates the sky. On the third day, God creates the terrestrial environment by gathering the water into one place and letting dry land appear in another. He then creates the plants, which are to serve as food for the life forms to be created on the subsequent days...On the fourth day, God creates the sun and the moon. If we were to suggest that the days of Creation represent long periods of time, our dilemma would be that the plants, created on day three, would have had to exist without a sun for millions of years." http://amazingdiscoveries.org/C-deception-Creation_week_evolution

 

Old-Earth Creationism is an attempt to blend the modern scientific theories with the Bible, but "can two walk together, except they be agreed?" Amos 3:3, and "what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Cor. 6:14. As Hidden Manna mentioned, the genealogy (specifically in Luke 3) is perfect from Jesus to Adam, and the ages can be approximated to add up to around 4,000 years before Christ. You can look up Ussher's chronology. Just some things to ponder. God bless!

 

I believe in the Day-Age Interpretation of Genesis which explains the light, including the sun and moon were created when God said let there be light. This occured over eons in this universe. On day 4 the cloud over the earth was gone and the sun and moon were visible on earth.

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Very interesting. I wasnt aware of that.

 

Well, If you look at it there are two lists of genealogy in the Bible. There is the one in the old testament, in Genesis and another in the new testament that follows the line of David from Adam to Jesus. That linage had to be a solid line of session from patriarch to patriarch.

 

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and. from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

 

 

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You know what blows my mind is the idea of so many who think Gods perfection is the perfection that we as human beings can understand.

 

Lets take this idea of a 24 hour day that so many assume is what God confined himself into using for our benefit, even though there was no reason to do so, because we weren't there. Now, it says in the Bible that it was a day, so those who are determined that God used the 24 hour day, because in their own logic a day is 24 hours and they qualify that ideal by saying that God would never deceive them by putting the reference of a day in the Bible. They don't even think of them deceiving themselves by the mindset they use... It's really a circular argument of assumption and presumption that what works for us should work for him, because we are thinking about him in the lines of the highest order.

 

God's ways are not our ways and his idea of perfection is so far above ours it isn't even funny. What we need to do is ask for guidance in all of this and that comes from the Holy Spirit, not our rationalizations. I still say that all of this speculation is a moot point, but there it is.

 

Great points. I agree.

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Believing in the words of God is believing in Jesus Christ.

 

Genesis 1:5

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

Genesis 1:8

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

Genesis 1:13

And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

Genesis 1:19

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

Genesis 1:23

And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

 

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

 

 

John 11:9

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

 

God gave us the definition of a day and the hours in the day in the creation account and by His Word, so why argue against it? Unless of course mans science has an agenda to promote.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:20

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

 

 

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Well, If you look at it there are two lists of genealogy in the Bible. There is the one in the old testament, in Genesis and another in the new testament that follows the line of David from Adam to Jesus. That linage had to be a solid line of session from patriarch to patriarch.

 

 

 

 

Yes, different lineages makes a lot of sense. That way the earth can be as old as science estimates and humans could have been around a lot longer than some people assume.

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I don't see that science is comes from the darkness. It is what it is. It is a study of that which God created. What is evil is to manipulate what is found or to funnel the research towards a predetermined destination, which is what the atheists do.

 

Exactly.

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Believing in the words of God is believing in Jesus Christ.

 

Genesis 1:5

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

Genesis 1:8

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

Genesis 1:13

And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

Genesis 1:19

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

Genesis 1:23

And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

 

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

 

 

John 11:9

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

 

God gave us the definition of a day and the hours in the day in the creation account and by His Word, so why argue against it? Unless of course mans science has an agenda to promote.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:20

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

 

 

I believe in the Day-Age Interpretation which fits both the Bible and science. See below:

 

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html

 

There are falsehoods in science but they are macro-evolution and Neo-Darwinism. I believe the age of the earth predicted by science is correct. I also believe the age of the universe is correct and the age of human beings is correct.

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That way the earth can be as old as science estimates and humans could have been around a lot longer than some people assume.

 

Nope, because Adam is the first man per the words of God. 1 Corinthians 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

 

 

SUMMARY OF THE TIME FROM ADAM TO JESUS *

* * * Adam to Abraham .................. 1948 yrs * * Abraham to Egypt ................. 290 yrs * * * * From Egypt to Moses: (X) Let X = 63 63 yrs * * * * X = (Kohath to Amram to Moses) * * * * Moses to the Exodus .............. 80 yrs * * Exodus to death Joshua ........... 70 yrs * * Judges to Samuel ................. 450 yrs (Acts 13:20) * * Kings of Judah ................... 513 yrs * * Babylonian Captivity ............. 586 B.C.E. * * --------------- * * Adam to Jesus 4000 yrs .......Source of chart..... http://www.hebroots.com/lul7_8.html

 

Again, you can either believe the words of God, or the words of men.

 

Luke 4:4

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

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Yet again, are these times according to Man's reckoning of years or Gods reckoning in years? If the time was reconed in Gods year and taking the 1000 to one comment that the Bible makes it means that Adam lived for 9,300 years. instead of 930 years..

 

Another swing and a miss. I already showed you by the words of God how God defined a evening and a morning as a day. I also already showed you by the words of Jesus that "the day" has 12 hours of light in it. (12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness=24 hours) Also God (not man) has defined what months, seasons, and years are based on the Sun and moon cycles.

 

Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

 

So your effort to redefine time in order to push mans science agenda is of men, and is not based on the words of God.

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Nope, because Adam is the first man per the words of God. 1 Corinthians 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

 

 

SUMMARY OF THE TIME FROM ADAM TO JESUS *

* * * Adam to Abraham .................. 1948 yrs * * Abraham to Egypt ................. 290 yrs * * * * From Egypt to Moses: (X) Let X = 63 63 yrs * * * * X = (Kohath to Amram to Moses) * * * * Moses to the Exodus .............. 80 yrs * * Exodus to death Joshua ........... 70 yrs * * Judges to Samuel ................. 450 yrs (Acts 13:20) * * Kings of Judah ................... 513 yrs * * Babylonian Captivity ............. 586 B.C.E. * * --------------- * * Adam to Jesus 4000 yrs .......Source of chart..... http://www.hebroots.com/lul7_8.html

 

Again, you can either believe the words of God, or the words of men.

 

Luke 4:4

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

 

I believe Adam was the first man and Eve was the first woman. The time between Adam and Noah is an unknown figure which according to science may add up to 400,000 years.

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