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Genesis 1:7 The waters above the firmament

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I have always wondered if it was the waters that god made above the firmament that allowed people to live so long, between Adams sin and the great flood. I mean you hear all about this ozone layer that filters out the harmful light that falls on the world. It just seems that before the flood that there is great care to document just how long a person lived and how long it was before he had his first male heir, before the flood, but after it, there is virtually nothing

 

I know the benefit of living longer, when there is so few people on the world as was the case in Adam and Seth's time meant that they could father more people and in that way fulfill god's command that we be fruitful. I just wondered what you guys think of this as if it has any merrit for discussion.

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Yes, I think it's a great discussion. I have always wondered the purpose of the waters above the firmament. I'm sure it may have had something to do with protecting the earth in a certain way. I think the longevity of lives before the flood was also due to their diet and lifestyles, as well as the fact that there was a lesser amount of years in which sin had corrupted the genetics. Now we are seeing the incredible results of sin on this world and on our own health, as well as the health of plants and animals. I think it's also helpful to point out what the firmament (expanse) was between the waters. Gen. 1:8 says that God called it heaven. Now there are 3 uses of the word heaven, one where the birds fly (Gen. 6:7), one where the stars are (Deut. 4:19), and one where God is (Heb. 8:1). I believe the firmament in Gen. 1:7 is actually where the birds fly, as your post suggests. God bless!

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When God created the world he foresaw that he would have to destroy it by a flood. During the flood there were 40 days of rain. I believe the waters above the firmament were placed there for that purpose.

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Merry Christmas everyone :RpS_smile:

 

I also find it interesting that it had never rained prior to the flood, that the ground had been watered by a mist until that point in time (somewhat similar to living in a terrarium I would think).

 

I also find it interesting that until very recently, our modern scientists believed that our water supply was not native to our planet, that all of the water on the earth came from comets and asteroids (which contained water) crashing into the earth. But now that they've found the fountains of the great deep .. Genesis 7:11, and they know that more water lies within the earth today than the water that sits on top of it (in all our oceans, seas, lakes and rivers combined). They've had to completely rethink their theory about where all of our water came from!

 

--David

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I hope it's not too late to respond to this thread.

When you look up the words "Water" or "waters," "the deep," "flood," "seas" and firmament, you'll find that they are sometimes used in a way that doesn't make sense. These indicate that the meanings are more than just what people guess.

 

For instance, "the waters that be above the heavens." Psalms 148:4. If the heavens are the starry sky, are there waters above them?

Any thoughts?

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I had written this some time ago on another thread, but If I understand it correctly, and probably not, higher carbon in the atmosphere produces elevated temperatures, that promotes rain sometimes referred to as acid rain, and though that more acidic carbon is inserted back into the soil encouraging plant growth, and the cycle repeats itself.

Now you ask if God gave us a supply of carbon to go into the atmosphere, and I’m sure He did, but I ask if putting something into action created or lessens that given amount or merely affected its purpose, and how it is replenished.

That is, in Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. (At that time was there not enough heat producing carbon yet in the atmosphere to produce rain?)

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 

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23 minutes ago, CDF47 said:

Day-Age Interpretation "it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea."

 

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html

The sight says: 

Quote

What does the text specifically say? The heavens (universe, solar system, sun, earth, etc.) were already created before the first "day" (Genesis 1:1, ~14 x 109years ago). Science tells us that the entire planet was covered in a global sea soon after its creation (3). In other verses, the Bible says that the earth is controlled by the heavens, refuting geocentrism (4). In Genesis 1:2, God was "hovering or brooding" over the seas of the newly formed earth (4.4-3.8 x 109years ago, 5). We know from science this is where the first unicellular life forms first appeared (6). The Hebrew word, rachaph, translated as "hovering or brooding" is used only twice in the Old Testament. The second reference is to an eagle caring for its young (7). Therefore, it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea.

רחף is actually used 3 times in the Old Testament: 

 

Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was1 on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2 NKJ)

 

Deuteronomy 32:11 As an eagle stirs up its nest, Hovers over its young, Spreading out its wings, taking them up, Carrying them on its wings, (Deu 32:11 NKJ)

 

Jeremiah 23:9 My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the LORD, And because of His holy words. 

 

Furthermore in regards to Deut 32:11 which says, "Hovers over its young" if we were to take the step of saying in means 'care for' - then the text would be saying that the spirit is 'caring for the waters' - not for life that is in the waters. 

 

This is the problem with theistic evolution is seeks to cram scripture into scientific theory - we do not 'know' that life started in the water, certain scientists theorize that to be the case - but the hypothesis has never been proven. The bible is clear that God created fish, birds and animals separately (Gen 1)   

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, reformed baptist said:

The sight says: 

רחף is actually used 3 times in the Old Testament: 

 

Genesis 1:2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was1 on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (Gen 1:2 NKJ)

 

Deuteronomy 32:11 As an eagle stirs up its nest, Hovers over its young, Spreading out its wings, taking them up, Carrying them on its wings, (Deu 32:11 NKJ)

 

Jeremiah 23:9 My heart within me is broken Because of the prophets; All my bones shake. I am like a drunken man, And like a man whom wine has overcome, Because of the LORD, And because of His holy words. 

 

Furthermore in regards to Deut 32:11 which says, "Hovers over its young" if we were to take the step of saying in means 'care for' - then the text would be saying that the spirit is 'caring for the waters' - not for life that is in the waters. 

 

This is the problem with theistic evolution is seeks to cram scripture into scientific theory - we do not 'know' that life started in the water, certain scientists theorize that to be the case - but the hypothesis has never been proven. The bible is clear that God created fish, birds and animals separately (Gen 1)   

 

 

 

 

 

You may be correct.  That site may not be right in this instance.  I think the Spirit was hovering over the waters of the sea though.

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Read Psalms 148 again, and it begins with God in the highest and ends up on earth, and places the heaven of heavens below the sun and moon. That agrees with Genesis and the waters above the firmament or our sky. Yet in another place the sun and moon are set in the firmament or sky. So it is a description from our point of view looking up. And looking up we see the celestial bodies and of course the universe. 

The only water I see is in the atmosphere - billions of tonnes of water.

One hurricane can hold water in weight equal to the great pyramid in Cairo.

 

I have heard that the waters are a supernatural substance, just like the initial light, caused by the word of God, from which all matter is produced.

Genesis and Job 38 mention the waters and the deep, etc in the context of the beginning of creation.

The foundations of the earth are these waters. Psalms says the earth is established above the waters, which are supposed to be up there...as well.

 

If we look at natural water - we have water above and below as well. And if the waters of Genesis 1:2 is natural, then we have an earth or creation existing prior to the power of the word in verse 3. Old earthers have capitalized on this.

 

However, if these waters are supernatural, or the invisible aspect of creation, then we don't have the idea of the earth existing before the creation begins in Genesis 1:3, but the earth only appears (the visible aspect of creation) in verse 9 or on the third day. On that day God names it "Earth."

 

So is it possible that the waters are a primary substance which produces what we experience as tangible matter, that our elements are  the visible aspect of creation, and that both the visible and invisible co exist in the whole of creation as said in the New Testament?

 

Or does that sound too etherical and new age?

 

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