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Does the Bible condone slavery?

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didn't the (Bible) say something about Israelite's must free those tied to them in bondage for any reason on the day of jubilee? Those Atheists who claim the Bible endorse slavery take for granted that Bonds man and women and servants were somewho unwilling slaves to those who paid for their food and upkeep for them to survive in a world before the welfare systems of today.

 

They claim that the purging that happened when the Israelite's came into the promised lands were simply a matter of race, since they can't comprehend the idea of spiritual corruption that these others would have sown into the minds and hearts of God's chosen people. They reject the idea of God and so they don't even factor him into what was his plan to begin with.

 

They look at The {Bible) as if it were a book of fiction and then propose that what's in there is so against what they assume in their own heads is the message of Christianity. If they think it's a book of fiction, then why are they so determined to denounce it as if it were to them, factual?

They use the standards of today, that have worked so well for society and you can see that in the anger and turmoil that is world wide, to judge a time when the standards of dealing with other people was just as barbaric, by today's standards as that which is written in the Bible, but somehow they miss that fact. In reality, what happened in the Bible is insignificant to those who try to use it as a weapon against us. What matters is that we are not listening to their voices and stand out as a stark reminder that something not only exists beyond their vision of the world, but that it has stood the test of time, working wonders, while their ideas are simply theories that have never worked anywhere they have been tried. These people are just so arogant that they think such things have failed, simply because they were not the ones who tried implementing them.

 

They are the children of this world, like so many adolescents who have spouted out that the reason their parents won't let them do something is not because they are looking out for them, but because those parents hate them. Most likely anyone who has teenagers can attest to that.

Why else would these people espouse their own intelligence, while characterize us as being hateful, when they can't see their own hatred for the blindness in their own ideals of morale superiority?

 

They simply reject the power that guides us and in so simply rationalizes that we do what we do, not because of honoring our creator, but because we are power hungry and won't refuse to share the power they think we hold, simply because what we stand for is simply blind traditionalism and so have no real purpose but denying that so-called power to others.

 

 

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We atheists simply don’t buy the theistic claims of the existence of a supernatural being so-called god, due to the lack of evidence supporting this claim. I’m sure some atheists may be arrogant and close-minded, but that’s beside the point. The thing is, I can’t believe in the existence of ‘anything’ without evidence, and so far, we have failed to find any convincing evidence that points to god’s existence. And until we do, it is unreasonable to believe it.

 

As for what is said in the bible about slavery, I don’t think the historical context matters. You claim the bible is the perfect word of god, and there are various passages that give clear instructions on how to treat your slaves, how much they’re worth, etc.

In what context is it ever morally acceptable to own someone else as property? Even in the New Testament there are many instructions on how to treat your slaves and how slaves should act. The fact is that a perfectly just god would explain to the people of the time that slavery is immoral (despite the way things where at the time), and certainly wouldn’t give INSTRUCTIONS on how to carry out these (you could even say ‘objectively’) immoral acts.

 

The fact that the bible’s “morality” aligns with the way people acted at the time actually indicates that it was written by the people of the time, with their primitive and barbaric  understanding of morality. It is obvious that if the authors thought slavery isn’t immoral, and a perfectly acceptable behaviour, they would write down instructions on how to carry these actions out following their particular set of rules for them. However if god inspired these writings (and they truly are the perfect word of god), you would expect “him” to only have written commands and instructions on a perfectly moral basis (which I hope we can all agree slavery is a counter-example of (though I believe it’s not the only one)), wouldn’t we?

 

Finally, atheists talk about the immorality in the Bible because christians (and inside the bible itself) claim it is perfectly moral, and so many people believe that claim without ever questioning it.

Edited by Giant-spaghettiMonster

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To address your little inspirational speech in the end of the third paragraph, to 1.1 billion people, you are a reminder of the blatant ignorance that is still sadly common in this world, and to 88% of the entire worlds population, you are seen as heretics (in the most extreme), misguided, or simply wrong. That alone would in no way, of course, discredit your claim if it was demonstrated by sufficient evidence to be true, but I’m just putting it in perspective out there.

 

i also find it interesting that you claim your religion has worked wonders, while scientists mere  “theories” have accomplished nothing, because it is undoubtedly and demonstrably not the case. Without the scientific method, and following only religion, we would still use god to explain MANY phenomenon we now know the actual explanations for, we wouldn’t have most of the technology we now use and have grown accustomed to (including the device you wrote this text on). Without the basic standards of evidence and the scientific method, we would still be killing birds to cure leprocy and would not know the actual cures to most diseases (and would probably not even know what diseases where, & rather than bacteria and viruses, we would still believe our bodies where being possessed by “evil spirits”).

Science works, and that is why we use it. It is the best way to form models about reality, and it consistently produces results that better (and help us understand) this inhospitable world we live in. THAT is why we use science (backed up by evidence) rather than faith; because thanks to science, we got to the point where we are able to escape the earths atmosphere and test the limits of what is phisicaly possible to observe in our universe. Whilst faith is unproductive, unchanging, and produces NO actual results for anything.

 

Finally, I’d like to state that by following the method that actually works, it is unjustified and unreasonable to believe that some specific supernatural being described in some ancient book actually exists, because the basic standards of evidence required to accept such a claim are NOT met.

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image.thumb.png.2c4fe0285202ffb0dfec754532d3107a.png

 

Amazing Grace is a 2006 British-American biographical drama film directed by Michael Apted, about the campaign against the slave trade in the British Empire, led by William Wilberforce, who was responsible for steering anti-slave trade legislation through the British parliament. The title is a reference to the hymn "Amazing Grace". The film also recounts the experiences of John Newton as a crewman on a slave ship and subsequent religious conversion, which inspired his writing of the poem later used in the hymn. Newton is portrayed as a major influence on Wilberforce and the abolition movement.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Giant-spaghettiMonster said:

Finally, I’d like to state that by following the method that actually works, it is unjustified and unreasonable to believe that some specific supernatural being described in some ancient book actually exists, because the basic standards of evidence required to accept such a claim are NOT met.

Is it possible to prove that nothing exists apart from empirical evidence?   

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1 hour ago, Giant-spaghettiMonster said:

To address your little inspirational speech in the end of the third paragraph, to 1.1 billion people, you are a reminder of the blatant ignorance that is still sadly common in this world, and to 88% of the entire worlds population, you are seen as heretics (in the most extreme), misguided, or simply wrong. That alone would in no way, of course, discredit your claim if it was demonstrated by sufficient evidence to be true, but I’m just putting it in perspective out there.

 

i also find it interesting that you claim your religion has worked wonders, while scientists mere  “theories” have accomplished nothing, because it is undoubtedly and demonstrably not the case. Without the scientific method, and following only religion, we would still use god to explain MANY phenomenon we now know the actual explanations for, we wouldn’t have most of the technology we now use and have grown accustomed to (including the device you wrote this text on). Without the basic standards of evidence and the scientific method, we would still be killing birds to cure leprocy and would not know the actual cures to most diseases (and would probably not even know what diseases where, & rather than bacteria and viruses, we would still believe our bodies where being possessed by “evil spirits”).

Science works, and that is why we use it. It is the best way to form models about reality, and it consistently produces results that better (and help us understand) this inhospitable world we live in. THAT is why we use science (backed up by evidence) rather than faith; because thanks to science, we got to the point where we are able to escape the earths atmosphere and test the limits of what is phisicaly possible to observe in our universe. Whilst faith is unproductive, unchanging, and produces NO actual results for anything.

 

Finally, I’d like to state that by following the method that actually works, it is unjustified and unreasonable to believe that some specific supernatural being described in some ancient book actually exists, because the basic standards of evidence required to accept such a claim are NOT met.

 

2 hours ago, Giant-spaghettiMonster said:

We atheists simply don’t buy the theistic claims of the existence of a supernatural being so-called god, due to the lack of evidence supporting this claim. I’m sure some atheists may be arrogant and close-minded, but that’s beside the point. The thing is, I can’t believe in the existence of ‘anything’ without evidence, and so far, we have failed to find any convincing evidence that points to god’s existence. And until we do, it is unreasonable to believe it.

 

As for what is said in the bible about slavery, I don’t think the historical context matters. You claim the bible is the perfect word of god, and there are various passages that give clear instructions on how to treat your slaves, how much they’re worth, etc.

In what context is it ever morally acceptable to own someone else as property? Even in the New Testament there are many instructions on how to treat your slaves and how slaves should act. The fact is that a perfectly just god would explain to the people of the time that slavery is immoral (despite the way things where at the time), and certainly wouldn’t give INSTRUCTIONS on how to carry out these (you could even say ‘objectively’) immoral acts.

 

The fact that the bible’s “morality” aligns with the way people acted at the time actually indicates that it was written by the people of the time, with their primitive and barbaric  understanding of morality. It is obvious that if the authors thought slavery isn’t immoral, and a perfectly acceptable behaviour, they would write down instructions on how to carry these actions out following their particular set of rules for them. However if god inspired these writings (and they truly are the perfect word of god), you would expect “him” to only have written commands and instructions on a perfectly moral basis (which I hope we can all agree slavery is a counter-example of (though I believe it’s not the only one)), wouldn’t we?

 

Finally, atheists talk about the immorality in the Bible because christians (and inside the bible itself) claim it is perfectly moral, and so many people believe that claim without ever questioning it.

The evidence for a creator is obviously creation.

 

There is no way to say that the God or the Bible is immoral, God is the authority of morality and the bible is His word. To say that God wouldn't condone this or command that based on your own opinion doesn't make sence, that's like saying that your God and think as God thinks, which is ludicrous.

 

Do you see anywhere in the bible where it prescribes to kill birds to cure disease? No, your lumping all beliefs in the supernatural to make a straw man argument.

Science and religion are not two separate things, science is simply the study of the natural world.

Going into space helped no one, it had no real significance.

Inventing technology has absolutely nothing to do with belief in God, except for the maybe Amish.

 

Christianity  has changed many cultures for the better, but eugenics, which stems from Darwinism, lead to millions of deaths.

 

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Giant Spaghetti Monster. You do cover a vast array of topics in your replys . You look apon modern science as being brought into existence  by merely secular men. Nothing could be further from the truth. Do look at all your founding universities. Be that medical or science. And you shall find or should already know that it was mostly people of a deep religious faith that gave us the stepping stones for the wonderful cures and scientific achievements that we do know today. As to God being unscientific. Your reasoning or study is just not reality . What do I mean by that. I mean that every civilisation  from the very beginning of time has some reflection or memory of God there in its deepest cultural beliefs. So from what greatness or stepping stone can one abound or aspire to learn from the wonders of atheism that you so earnestly believe.  Do spaghetti monsters like cookies ? : )  I shall await your answer with much interest. Lol Prim 

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Adding some context ...

 

SLAVE - a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.

 

Exodus 21:1 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

 

20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.

 

Ephesians 6:

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.

7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,

8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

 

Colossians 4:1 - Masters, give unto [your] servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

 

Titus 2:9-10 - [Exhort] servants to be obedient unto their own masters, [and] to please [them] well in all [things]; not answering again;   (Read More...)

 

Philemon 1:16 - Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord?

 

________________________

By definition, is not someone who is drafted into the military a SLAVE (a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.)?

Slavery (a pejorative today) means so many things to so many people. 

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On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:15 PM, Giant-spaghettiMonster said:

To address your little inspirational speech in the end of the third paragraph, to 1.1 billion people, you are a reminder of the blatant ignorance that is still sadly common in this world, and to 88% of the entire worlds population, you are seen as heretics (in the most extreme), misguided, or simply wrong. That alone would in no way, of course, discredit your claim if it was demonstrated by sufficient evidence to be true, but I’m just putting it in perspective out there.

 

i also find it interesting that you claim your religion has worked wonders, while scientists mere  “theories” have accomplished nothing, because it is undoubtedly and demonstrably not the case. Without the scientific method, and following only religion, we would still use god to explain MANY phenomenon we now know the actual explanations for, we wouldn’t have most of the technology we now use and have grown accustomed to (including the device you wrote this text on). Without the basic standards of evidence and the scientific method, we would still be killing birds to cure leprocy and would not know the actual cures to most diseases (and would probably not even know what diseases where, & rather than bacteria and viruses, we would still believe our bodies where being possessed by “evil spirits”).

Science works, and that is why we use it. It is the best way to form models about reality, and it consistently produces results that better (and help us understand) this inhospitable world we live in. THAT is why we use science (backed up by evidence) rather than faith; because thanks to science, we got to the point where we are able to escape the earths atmosphere and test the limits of what is phisicaly possible to observe in our universe. Whilst faith is unproductive, unchanging, and produces NO actual results for anything.

 

Finally, I’d like to state that by following the method that actually works, it is unjustified and unreasonable to believe that some specific supernatural being described in some ancient book actually exists, because the basic standards of evidence required to accept such a claim are NOT met.

All the insults , ranting and raving cannot pull me away from the Lord ,My God . He suffered the torments of the cross to take upon Himself the sins of His people , justifying them and bringing them into a saving relationship with Himself through out all eternity. Btw, no one here is having to defend their Christianity . They are all assured of a coveted relationship with God .

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Slavery was addressed because it had already existed. It is just like a man having more than one wife, it was addressed because it existed. God makes worshipping Him fit our manner of life, even if it is less than ideal. Even when I was a child, I understood these things. So there is no mystery as to why God allowed certain things. Let's ignore that atheist.  :RpS_thumbup:

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13 hours ago, deade said:

Slavery was addressed because it had already existed. It is just like a man having more than one wife, it was addressed because it existed. God makes worshipping Him fit our manner of life, even if it is less than ideal. Even when I was a child, I understood these things. So there is no mystery as to why God allowed certain things. Let's ignore that atheist.  :RpS_thumbup:

It must be a baby atheist; more 'mature' ones have long accepted the fact that science cannot prove or disprove God (the physical cannot prove/disprove the supernatural).  Many things of this world cannot be proven by scientific methodology and simply must be accepted for what it is.

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8 hours ago, Civilwarbuff said:

It must be a baby atheist; more 'mature' ones have long accepted the fact that science cannot prove or disprove God (the physical cannot prove/disprove the supernatural).  Many things of this world cannot be proven by scientific methodology and simply must be accepted for what it is.

That last sentence wasn't about the rest of the post. "Let's ignore that atheist" was a stand alone statement aimed at Giant-spaghettiMonster.

 

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