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Faber

The indentity of the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 (?)

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2 Thessalonians 2:6

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. (NASB)

 

Who or what is the restrainer?

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It's an interesting question - What is restraining the man of sin from being established - at 2 Thess 2:6 ? 

 

Several years ago I got interested in this question and studied it a lot. The answer seems to be that TIME is the restrainer, that it wasn't yet the right TIME for the "wicked one" when Paul wrote his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians.  The GNT version of 2 Thess 2:6 below seems a bit more clear on this than some of the other versions -

 

2 Thess 2:6 GNT - Yet there is something that keeps this from happening now, and you know what it is. At the proper time, then, the Wicked One will appear.

 

In other words, the events of the past 2000 years had to play out first in order to lead up to the TIME of the 3rd temple to be built in Jerusalem on the temple mount so that the "Wicked One" can be set up there and claim to be God - see Temple Mount

 

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Thanks for the interesting response.

Many years back I think someone expressed to me that they thought it referred to the Holy Spirit.

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On 12/6/2017 at 1:20 PM, Faber said:

2 Thessalonians 2:6

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. (NASB)

 

Who or what is the restrainer?

Probably  Claudius,  God  used him to bring  the full measure of the evil of  Roman paganism to the forefront in the body and person  of  Nero.

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On 12/7/2017 at 5:20 AM, Faber said:

2 Thessalonians 2:6

And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. (NASB)

 

Who or what is the restrainer?

The restrainer is likely the Law of God. ...

 

DANIEL.7: = 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. ...

 

And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

 

The little horn likely refers to USA, the last superpower of the world. Why is it little.? = because USA could not even defeat the communist terrorists during the 1960s Vietnam War and the more recent Muslim terrorists.

 

Since the 1960s, the liberal faction of USA has abolished Church-derived laws(= from English Common Law) against adultery, sodomy/homosexuality, abortion, etc = lawlessness and sexual moral decadence/hedonism.

....... Recently, a few liberal States in USA have prosecuted/persecuted Christian-owned wedding-related businesses who refused to provide services that required them to "participate" in same-sex weddings.

 

So, as prophesied, USA has begun to unrestrain the laws of God = becomes a more evil/satanic/lawless nation.

.

 

P S - About 1500BC, God gave the Jews and their nation His Law or Moses Law, in order to curb humans' inborn tendency to commit sins/evil-deeds, eg GENESIS.6:5. In the 4th century AD, the Roman Catholic Church-based Holy Roman Empire arose and adopted part of Moses Law as Church Law., eg laws against apostasy, adultery, sodomy, bigamy, divorce, etc. The Roman Catholic Church(RCC) Law ruled the Holy Roman Empire for many centuries. When King Henry VIII of England broke away from the RCC during the 16th century, Church Law in England was modified into English Common Law. When USA broke away from the British Empire in 1776, English Common Law was modified into US Law.

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4 minutes ago, discipler77 said:

The restrainer is likely the Law of God. ...

 

DANIEL.7: = 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. ...

 

And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

 

The little horn likely refers to USA, the last superpower of the world. Why is it little.? = because USA could not even defeat the communist terrorists during the 1960s Vietnam War and the more recent Muslim terrorists.

 

Since the 1960s, the liberal faction of USA has abolished Church-derived laws(= from English Common Law) against adultery, sodomy/homosexuality, abortion, etc = lawlessness and sexual moral decadence/hedonism.

....... Recently, a few liberal States in USA have prosecuted/persecuted Christian-owned wedding-related businesses who refused to provide services that required them to "participate" in same-sex weddings.

 

So, as prophesied, USA has begun to unrestrain the laws of God = becomes a more evil/satanic/lawless nation.

.

 

P S - About 1500BC, God gave the Jews and their nation His Law or Moses Law, in order to curb humans' inborn tendency to commit sins/evil-deeds, eg GENESIS.6:5. In the 4th century AD, the Roman Catholic Church-based Holy Roman Empire arose and adopted part of Moses Law as Church Law., eg laws against apostasy, adultery, sodomy, bigamy, divorce, etc. The Roman Catholic Church(RCC) Law ruled the Holy Roman Empire for many centuries. When King Henry VIII of England broke away from the RCC during the 16th century, Church Law in England was modified into English Common Law. When USA broke away from the British Empire in 1776, English Common Law was modified into US Law.

Would  I be correct  assuming you believe  that following the  rapture (sic) a Jewish remnant will  become the greatest  evangelical force in history ?

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Perhaps we can identify the restrainer by looking at who has restrained one of God's past judgments.  After God told Abraham he was planning to judge Sodom Abraham prayed on behalf the the righteous residents of the city and God promised to spare the city if there were ten righteous people in it.  He didn't find ten, only Lot and his wife and two daughters.  They weren't enough to avert judgment but the angel told them he could do nothing until they were taken out of the city.  Perhaps the only thing holding back God's judgment is the presence of believers.  When the number of believers falls below the number that will avert judgment God will remove them from the earth by means of the rapture, just as he delivered Lot from Sodom.  

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The chapter is about the Church Departing, then the Man of Sin will come forth, both come BEFORE the Day of the Lord can come upon the Thessalonians, and they feared they were in the DOTL (God's Wrath). 

 

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (DOTL), except there come a falling away first(Departure of the Church or RAPTURE), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

 

So that which the Thessalonians feared, that they were in God's Wrath, can not come upon them Paul says until the Church Departs AND the Man of Sin (Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast) comes to power. As a matter of fact the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem is the opening of the First Seal, thus it kicks of the Day of the Lord, a 3 1/2 year period of God's Wrath. 

 

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

 

Paul told the Thessalonians about this when he was with them, that the Church would be Raptured, then the Anti-Christ would come forth, before God's Wrath would come upon the world. That is why he states, AND NOW YOU KNOW what withholds (stops/restrains) the the Anti-Christ from coming forth until it's his time. So what is it ? 

 

Well, it's the Church that Departs and thus evil is allowed to again come forth, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. The BEAST SYSTEM went like this, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, thus in Rev. 13 we see this below:

 

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded (Rome) to death; and his deadly wound was healed(Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem): and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

Notice when the Church comes along the Beast goes away, the Church eventually turns the Beast into a conveyor of the word of God. Rome becomes a base for Christianity to be spread worldwide. The Pax Romana made the Gospel go worldwide very quick, all roads lead to Rome and they also used Koine Greek as a common language, thereby spreading the Gospel over the whole world. The Beast was delivered a MORTAL WOUND by the Church that Satan could not defeat!! 

 

Thus when the Church Departs, then and ONLY THEN, can the Beast be revived. 

Edited by Revelation Ron

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2 hours ago, Revelation Ron said:

The chapter is about the Church Departing, then the Man of Sin will come forth, both come BEFORE the Day of the Lord can come upon the Thessalonians, and they feared they were in the DOTL (God's Wrath). 

 

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (DOTL), except there come a falling away first(Departure of the Church or RAPTURE), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

 

So that which the Thessalonians feared, that they were in God's Wrath, can not come upon them Paul says until the Church Departs AND the Man of Sin (Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast) comes to power. As a matter of fact the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem is the opening of the First Seal, thus it kicks of the Day of the Lord, a 3 1/2 year period of God's Wrath. 

 

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

 

Paul told the Thessalonians about this when he was with them, that the Church would be Raptured, then the Anti-Christ would come forth, before God's Wrath would come upon the world. That is why he states, AND NOW YOU KNOW what withholds (stops/restrains) the the Anti-Christ from coming forth until it's his time. So what is it ? 

 

Well, it's the Church that Departs and thus evil is allowed to again come forth, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. The BEAST SYSTEM went like this, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, thus in Rev. 13 we see this below:

 

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded (Rome) to death; and his deadly wound was healed(Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem): and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

Notice when the Church comes along the Beast goes away, the Church eventually turns the Beast into a conveyor of the word of God. Rome becomes a base for Christianity to be spread worldwide. The Pax Romana made the Gospel go worldwide very quick, all roads lead to Rome and they also used Koine Greek as a common language, thereby spreading the Gospel over the whole world. The Beast was delivered a MORTAL WOUND by the Church that Satan could not defeat!! 

 

Thus when the Church Departs, then and ONLY THEN, can the Beast be revived. 

There are "two parts" in events that will take place in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

How is the church going to be raptured and gone, when the verse clearly states the church must be present on earth to witness the man of sin being revealed, thats a no brainer, right?

 

As the scripture clearly teaches the "Falling Away" is from the faith the church once held, this isn't a rapture to heaven.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

1. Falling Away First

2. Man Of Sin Be Revealed

 

Even C.I Scofield in his 1917 reference notes taught the falling aways was the apostasy of the church?

 

C.I Scofield 1917 reference notes below.

 

2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

for that day

 

The order of events is:3

(1) The working of the mystery of lawlessness under divine restraint which had already begun in the apostle's time 2 Thessalonians 2:7

(2) the apostasy of the professing church 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ; Luke 18:8 ; 2 Timothy 3:1-8 .

 

 

Edited by Truth7t7

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4 hours ago, Revelation Ron said:

The chapter is about the Church Departing, then the Man of Sin will come forth, both come BEFORE the Day of the Lord can come upon the Thessalonians, and they feared they were in the DOTL (God's Wrath). 

 

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (DOTL), except there come a falling away first(Departure of the Church or RAPTURE), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

 

So that which the Thessalonians feared, that they were in God's Wrath, can not come upon them Paul says until the Church Departs AND the Man of Sin (Little Horn/Anti-Christ/Beast) comes to power. As a matter of fact the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem is the opening of the First Seal, thus it kicks of the Day of the Lord, a 3 1/2 year period of God's Wrath. 

 

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

 

Paul told the Thessalonians about this when he was with them, that the Church would be Raptured, then the Anti-Christ would come forth, before God's Wrath would come upon the world. That is why he states, AND NOW YOU KNOW what withholds (stops/restrains) the the Anti-Christ from coming forth until it's his time. So what is it ? 

 

Well, it's the Church that Departs and thus evil is allowed to again come forth, Jesus told Peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. The BEAST SYSTEM went like this, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, thus in Rev. 13 we see this below:

 

Rev. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded (Rome) to death; and his deadly wound was healed(Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem): and all the world wondered after the beast.

 

Notice when the Church comes along the Beast goes away, the Church eventually turns the Beast into a conveyor of the word of God. Rome becomes a base for Christianity to be spread worldwide. The Pax Romana made the Gospel go worldwide very quick, all roads lead to Rome and they also used Koine Greek as a common language, thereby spreading the Gospel over the whole world. The Beast was delivered a MORTAL WOUND by the Church that Satan could not defeat!! 

 

Thus when the Church Departs, then and ONLY THEN, can the Beast be revived. 

2 Thessalonians 2:3 is about the great apostasy, and the Church falling away from the faith, this isn't a rapture of the Church to heaven.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

1. Falling Away First

2. Man Of Sin Be Revealed

 

Even C.I Scofield in his 1917 reference notes taught the falling aways was the apostasy of the church?

 

C.I Scofield 1917 reference notes below.

 

2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

for that day

 

The order of events is:3

(1) The working of the mystery of lawlessness under divine restraint which had already begun in the apostle's time 2 Thessalonians 2:7

(2) the apostasy of the professing church 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ; Luke 18:8 ; 2 Timothy 3:1-8 .

Edited by Truth7t7

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9 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

There are "two parts" in events that will take place in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

 

How is the church going to be raptured and gone, when the verse clearly states the church must be present on earth to witness the man of sin being revealed, thats a no brainer, right?

 

As the scripture clearly teaches the "Falling Away" is from the faith the church once held, this isn't a rapture to heaven.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

1. Falling Away First

2. Man Of Sin Be Revealed

 

Even C.I Scofield in his 1917 reference notes taught the falling aways was the apostasy of the church?

 

C.I Scofield 1917 reference notes below.

 

2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

for that day

 

The order of events is:3

(1) The working of the mystery of lawlessness under divine restraint which had already begun in the apostle's time 2 Thessalonians 2:7

(2) the apostasy of the professing church 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ; Luke 18:8 ; 2 Timothy 3:1-8 .

 

 

The Falling Away means DEPARTURE, not apostasy. Nowhere is the Faith being spoken of in this passage, but a "Gathering unto Jesus" (Rapture) is spoken of in the very first verse. We have words that seemingly change meanings all the time in our lexicon of language down through the ages, the word "Gay" is now used to describe a Homosexual whereas as recent as the 1950's it was considered to be denoting being happy. The first Seven English translations did not have "Falling Away" they all had "Departure". It's not a departure of the faith, it's a departure from a standing as per the Church being on earth. That is why in Rev. 19 we marry the Lamb then return with him and the Beast and his minions are still on earth. I wrote a piece on this a bit back using Tommy Ice's teachings amidst some other research I was doing at the time.

 

Is the Falling Away (apostasy) and erroneous understanding ?

 

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage of scripture. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left on earth by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

 

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

 

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

 

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

 

They were as follows:

 

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

 

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the "false teachings" of Catholicism.

 

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

 

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular (Gathering unto the Lord). In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

 

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

 

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

 

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James translation seemingly changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years as per the Latin Vulgate and 1500 years as per Paul's teachings. 

Edited by Revelation Ron

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11 hours ago, Revelation Ron said:

The Falling Away means DEPARTURE, not apostasy. Nowhere is the Faith being spoken of in this passage, but a "Gathering unto Jesus" (Rapture) is spoken of in the very first verse. We have words that seemingly change meanings all the time in our lexicon of language down through the ages, the word "Gay" is now used to describe a Homosexual whereas as recent as the 1950's it was considered to be denoting being happy. The first Seven English translations did not have "Falling Away" they all had "Departure". It's not a departure of the faith, it's a departure from a standing as per the Church being on earth. That is why in Rev. 19 we marry the Lamb then return with him and the Beast and his minions are still on earth. I wrote a piece on this a bit back using Tommy Ice's teachings amidst some other research I was doing at the time.

 

Is the Falling Away (apostasy) and erroneous understanding ?

 

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage of scripture. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left on earth by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

 

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

 

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

 

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

 

They were as follows:

 

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

 

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the "false teachings" of Catholicism.

 

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

 

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular (Gathering unto the Lord). In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

 

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

 

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

 

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James translation seemingly changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years as per the Latin Vulgate and 1500 years as per Paul's teachings. 

Im fully aware of Thomas Ice Hailing From Dallas Theological, This is a new teaching in error, because those bound by Darby & Scofields dispensationalism couldn't refute the greek word "Apostasia" this being the root word for "Apostasy"

 

You continue on in using different translations, "Departure" or "Falling Away"?

 

Both are describing this as falling away from the faith, not a rapture of the church to heaven.

 

You gave complete disregard to my presented claim, why?

 

Don't run from this a second time, answer my claim?

 

How can the church be taken in a rapture, when it states it must be present on earth to see the man of sin?

 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

1. Falling Away First

2. Man Of Sin Be Revealed

 

C.I. Scofield was the founder of Dallas Theological, As he was the teacher and mentor of Lewis S. Chafer. Thomas Ice is following behing C.I Scofield, as he has changed the traditional teaching of "Apostasia" recently.

 

"The Apostasy Of The Professing Church"

 

Even C.I Scofield in his 1917 reference notes taught the falling aways was the apostasy of the church?

 

C.I Scofield 1917 reference notes below.

 

2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

for that day

 

The order of events is:3

(1) The working of the mystery of lawlessness under divine restraint which had already begun in the apostle's time 2 Thessalonians 2:7

(2) the apostasy of the professing church 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ; Luke 18:8 ; 2 Timothy 3:1-8 .

 

 

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3 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

Im fully aware of Thomas Ice Hailing From Dallas Theological, This is a new teaching in error, because those bound by Darby & Scofields dispensationalism couldn't refute the greek word "Apostasia" this being the root word for "Apostasy"

 

The teaching is by Paul, the Harpazo in other scriptures alo means the Rapture, which is only a Latin word used to translate Harpazo, as is the English verbiage "Snatched Away/Caught up". 

 

3 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

You continue on in using different translations, "Departure" or "Falling Away"?

 

No, I use the first 7 English Translations and the Latin Vulgate which was around for 1100 years. You insist that the KJV is the be all end all. I use the KJV myself, but also know that I must used the old Hebrew and Greek to understand many mistranslations, we have a modern day computer, its much easier for us to research these root words looking back into history now. For instance, Rev. 1:1 is not Jesus saying he is coming back soon, there are two root words behind soon. The Greek word EN means a fixed point in time and TACHOS means to come SWIFTLY or QUICKLY, so what it means is at a FIXED POINT IN TIME (when the Father sends Jesus) he will COME SWIFTLY !! Jesus doesn't know when, only the Father knows when He will send Jesus. 

 

The Greek word means a Departure of the Church, thus there is NO REASON for the Thessalonians to fear going through God's Wrath because we will be Gathered unto Christ and in Heaven just like Rev. ch. 19 is described unto us. There was 1500 years of it meaning Departure until the KJV translators changed it, seemingly to take a shot at the RCC. 

 

4 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

You gave complete disregard to my presented claim, why?

 

Don't run from this a second time, answer my claim?

 

How can the church be taken in a rapture, when it states it must be present on earth to see the man of sin?

Your whole thesis seems to imply that you can just assume the Church is still on earth with no scriptural backing whatsoever. Nowhere does any scripture claim that the Church is on earth to see the Man of Sin, you seem to have this ingrained in your thought processes so when we show this is the Departure of the Church you seemingly lose sight of this factoid. I mean, if the Church Departs she is not on earth as you claim, I know from your thought processes that has always been in the back of your mind, but I just challenged that fact pattern woth new facts, so why would the Church still be on earth in my thought pointed observation ? 

 

4 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

How can the church be taken in a rapture, when it states it must be present on earth to see the man of sin?

 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

1. Falling Away First

2. Man Of Sin Be Revealed

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(DOTL/God's Wrath/First Seal) shall not come, except there come a falling away first (Rapture/Departure of the Church FIRST), and that man of sin be revealed(Anti-Christ shows up), the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

What were the Thessalonians fearing ? That they were in the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord. Paul says, HEY LISTEN GUYS !! That day of God's Wrath (DOTL) can not come (THE FIRST SEAL BRINGS IT) until the Church Departs first and THEN the Man of Sin or Anti-Christ must be unveiled, otherwise no one can see the DAY OF THE LORD or God's Wrath. He telling them they have been lied to, that no Wrath of God is going to come upon them, that THAT DAY (DOTL) can not come until the Church Departs this earth and the Anti-Christ comes upon this earth, so FEAR NOT Thessalonians, you will be either dead or in Heaven via the Rapture before God's Wrath comes upon this world. Nowhere does this passage say that Christians will be on earth when the Anti-Christ is on earth.

 

The Saints in Daniel ch. 8 in in Rev. 13 are the Jews, that is why Rev. 17 speaks about the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus !! The souls under the allter in the 5th Seal are the Christians who gave their lives unto God after the Rapture, they must lay down their lives for Christ, whereas the Jews who flee to Petra will be protected because God promised Abraham a Forever Seed. 

 

4 hours ago, Truth7t7 said:

C.I. Scofield was the founder of Dallas Theological, As he was the teacher and mentor of Lewis S. Chafer. Thomas Ice is following behing C.I Scofield, as he has changed the traditional teaching of "Apostasia" recently.

 

For 1100 years the Latin Vulgate stated it was a Departure, the first Seven English translations stated it was a Departure, it seems the KJV changed the meaning to me. 

 

Revelation chapter 19 clearly show the Church is in Heaven then returns to defeat he Beas with Jesus. 

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