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Chasinglight

Is belief in reincarnation possible as a christian?

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I read somewhere that the early church believed in reincarnation, and that it got scrubbed out of the Bible in the early days. Reincarnation actually makes a lot of sense to me, rather than the concept of hell. What do others think?

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Lots of people don't like the concept of hell being in a person's future. Any more than a child who's done something naughty likes to think about getting spanked or receive a negative disciplinary action as a result Of. But a wise parent Will discipline a child for a wrong action. It's meant to be a correcting action by the parent. But a few spankings applied to the padded back - end usually gets the message across.

 

There had been and still are errorneous teachings being taught. Reincarnation is not Biblical Because a person has but one life to live and then comes the time of judgement. No second chances to change our direction from hell to heaven by living a better life After this one.

 

The term Christian usually means that a person has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. Our eternal destination is determined by a person's acceptance Of or rejection Of what Jesus Christ already did on the cross for us. He shed His blood on the cross for mankind. He paid the price for our sinfulness. There's nothing that we can do to help ourselves get to heaven. Jesus paid it all. We acknowledge our need and God's solution -- through Jesus Christ-- repent -- and say 'Yes' to Jesus Christ and thank Him for his gift of salvation for us. Personally.

 

That will allow a person to spend eternity in heaven with God -- otherwise a person is destined for eternity in hell. The only entity who wants us to be There is satan, himself. That's where satan is destined to be and he wants company -- but 'no thanks'. Utter darkness and eternity in the lake of fire doesn't appeal to me.

 

 

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I guess I just find it hard to understand, when a baby dies at a few hours old, where was his chance to prove himself? It just makes sense to me that that baby would reincarnate. I guess this is just something I struggle with, with my faith.

but thankyou for the information you put forward William, all the same.

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A person needs to be old enough to understand that they are sinners. And be able to understand salvation. A baby - small child doesn't have that understanding yet. They are under God's grace. Back in the Old Testament David and Bathsheba's infant son died. David said that his child couldn't come back to him, but that he would be able to be with his son. David was a man after God's own heart. Which indicates that his child would be in heaven.

 

No one is in a position to need to prove themselves to God. That would be a works-based salvation.

 

And only God knows who His elect are. Gods is gracious. And although all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. A person needs to be old enough to understand and accept.

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Scriptural references please.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

Are you suggesting that David and his infant son are in hell / will be in hell?

 

Scripture says that a person needs to believe in their heart and confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus. If a person isn't old enough to or capable Of understand anything except hunger and discomfort from needing a diaper change, how can that infant understand or respond to salvation. That would mean they are under God's grace until they are old enough. An infant doesn't believe in anything. They are a blank page. It's also true that temper Can be seen in older babies sometimes. But is that Sin? At times it's more the person caring for the child who isn't feeding or changing when it's needed and that infant is Trying to get their attention.

 

I'm not sure there's a Scripture passage that applies -- but Scriptural principles that are involved.

 

Seems I'm repeating myself from # 6.

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Scriptural references please.

  • Psalm 51:5 5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

God bless,

William

 

 

 

That is true -- so you're suggesting that all babies / small children who die are going to end up in hell because they aren't old enough to understand and accept?

 

That Psalm Could also also be used to suggest that the mother was being sinful when having sex -- maybe she was having an affair so the babie's conception would have been illigetimate so his existence was sinful. Just sayin

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If any things going to turn me off Christianity it's hearing that all babies who die go to hell. How could a loving God seriously send a baby to hell? I think you've got your wires crossed.

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No one goes to heaven or hell based on anyone's belief but their own. My parents being believers or atheists will Not affect My ability to accept or reject salvation. I go to heaven or hell based on my own decisions. A baby has no ability to Make any decisions. A small child has no ability to make decisions.

 

So -- where does that place unborn babies. Those who are aborted either by people or naturally. Are they in heaven or hell.

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@William -- actually the above post was directed at you, also.

 

A question -- how would you counsel parents or a parent who'd lost a baby? When you'd be asked 'where is my baby" ? Are you going to respond back with 'depends on if he / she was one of God's elect'? I sincerely hope not.

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Reincarnation works by karma. If you do good you become one with the universe, if your bad you reincarnate to make up for your bad and try to gain enough good karma. Scripture tells us that human kind is wicked and in need of Christ attonment. The only outcome karma has is an endless cycle of dieing and reincarnating until there is nothingness.

 

Now if there was reincarnation in Christianity and it were removed from Scripture there would be some hint left, but what we do see is the opposite.

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I can't say absuoltly what happens to infants, but I believe they go to heaven. We don't know what takes place inside that infant, although they can't comprehend I think they recognize who Christ is somehow. And theres a few other things I like to point out.

 

All die when God wills it, would God create an infant to know nothing and perish?

 

Christ died for us, adults who had a list of heinous sins, I think Christ would have also died for those infants.

 

Like I said, I can't say I know for a fact. And even if infants perish it is still God's right, he's the one who created them after all.

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If any things going to turn me off Christianity it's hearing that all babies who die go to hell. How could a loving God seriously send a baby to hell? I think you've got your wires crossed.

The doctrine of hell is a very difficult one for people to come to grips with. When it comes to the fate of babies the issue is even more difficult because we don't have clear teaching from scripture on it. For myself, especially since I have not tried to study the question very much, I simply don't know what happens to babies when they die or are aborted. But, I know that God is good and he is just, so whatever happens, I know God does the right thing. When God was preparing to destroy the city of Sodom, Abraham said to God, "Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” (Genesis 18:25, ESV) Well, I think that the answer to the question is that God, Judge of all the earth, always does what is just. So, I trust God in this.

 

For me, as I came to read more of the Bible and understand many of the things it teaches, I came to believe that the Bible is true and trustworthy. So that even though I don't always understand everything, nevertheless I take it all as God's word to me and trust him completely. May you come to do the same, I pray.

 

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  • 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or badin order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!

You seemingly reject the Scriptures for your emotional appeal. I'd tell them like you to read Romans 9.

 

Heaven or hell is not MY place to Judge, but heaven or hell, the saints shall praise God.

 

Hated is pass tense, God obviously knew Esau's deeds before he did them. God hated who he became. God saw all his deeds before he did them and hated him, very different from a child who commits no deeds

 

 

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The fact that the child dies as an infant shows that child is under the curse and penalty of sin.

Jeroboam's son died as an infant and it was because God was pleased with him.

 

And all Israel shall mourn for him and bury him, for he only of Jeroboam shall come to the grave, because in him there is found something pleasing to the Lord, the God of Israel, in the house of Jeroboam. (1 Kings 14:13 ESV)

 

You pointed out that we inherit guilt but isn't it that inherited guilt that causes us to die physically?

 

Paul told of a time when he was alive but said that he died when the commandment came.

 

I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. (Romans 7:9 ESV)

 

When could he have been alive? Only when he was first born and didn't have the ability to choose good or evil. It was when he became aware of the law and chose to break it that he died spiritually.

 

Regarding the initial question of whether the Bible teaches reincarnation, here is a verse that proves the impossibility of reincarnation.

 

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23 ESV)

 

Our spirits, souls, and bodies will be preserved. If reincarnation were true each of us would have lived in more than one body. The Bible clearly teaches that our bodies will be resurrected. This belief in incompatible with belief in reincarnation.

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In answering as to where do babies and children go when they die, here is what many Bible scholars believe.

 

In 2 Samuel 12:23 David says "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." NASB 1995. Two meanings are in this verse, First David would also join his infant son in death. Second, David would someday join his infant son in heaven. This verse has brought comfort and assurance for many who have experienced the death of a child. There are many verses in Scripture that gives comfort to those who are left behind, and help us to grieve, here are just a few verses that are of comfort. Philippians 1:20-23, Luke 20:36. Revelation 21:4. Genesis 2:17. Psalm 39:4-5. 89:4, 103::14-18. Romans 14:8-9. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22. 1 Timothy 6:7. 2 Timothy 2:10. Hebrews 2:14-15, 9:27. James 1:10. ! Peter 1:24. Revelation 1:18, 20:12, 21:4. There are so many more but these are the ones used a lot in times of death of a loved one.

 

From a Pastoral stand point, and I include those who want to be an emotional, spiritual, and physical support for those grieving the loss of a child here are some important things. Your simple presence is important. The divorce rate (even with Christians) for those couples who have lost a child is very high. For most couples they are looking for some reason their child died. That reason turns into someone must be to blame. So often couples windup blaming each other. Here is a person must be alert when you here "if only you" or "why didn't you" being alert for little clues what a couple says to each other is so important.

 

Your presence in just listening is vital. Hearing them tell their hurt and sorrow is a great comfort. Much of what a counselor does is listen, but unless you have been trained its best to call a Pastor when you see words of blame. The church family is also a support and helps in the emotional healing. no one should expect that the couple will be back to normal in a month or a year, good grief takes time, so be patient allow the couple to bond together and heal at their pace. Keep in mind this is a time when coupled do divorce a,d with the church family, the pastor and close friends the couple stands a far better recovery and grieving process.

 

Praying with the couple, reading Scripture with them, and as the couple seems ready love them back into their normal pattern of life, which may not be back as it was.

 

 

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William, therein here is one major difference between other like you and me as a Christian first and Baptist second. I know of no place in the New Testament that gives us instructions to Baptize infants. However as most Baptists we ho have a dedication service for our babies and small children. The real issue is does baptism of an iffant save them? If so where in the NT is that?

 

A Christian marriage is a Covenant between God Almighty and the husband and wife. Those children born to that union are a part of the Covenant, until they reach the age of accountability. At least thats how I understand it

 

I respect your position, but in love we don't agree. When we stand before the Lord it may not matter or He may explain all this and other differences to us. In the mean time brother William I love you brother.

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In answering as to where do babies and children go when they die, here is what many Bible scholars believe.

 

In 2 Samuel 12:23 David says "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." NASB 1995. Two meanings are in this verse, First David would also join his infant son in death. Second, David would someday join his infant son in heaven. This verse has brought comfort and assurance for many who have experienced the death of a child. There are many verses in Scripture that gives comfort to those who are left behind, and help us to grieve, here are just a few verses that are of comfort. Philippians 1:20-23, Luke 20:36. Revelation 21:4. Genesis 2:17. Psalm 39:4-5. 89:4, 103::14-18. Romans 14:8-9. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22. 1 Timothy 6:7. 2 Timothy 2:10. Hebrews 2:14-15, 9:27. James 1:10. ! Peter 1:24. Revelation 1:18, 20:12, 21:4. There are so many more but these are the ones used a lot in times of death of a loved one.

 

From a Pastoral stand point, and I include those who want to be an emotional, spiritual, and physical support for those grieving the loss of a child here are some important things. Your simple presence is important. The divorce rate (even with Christians) for those couples who have lost a child is very high. For most couples they are looking for some reason their child died. That reason turns into someone must be to blame. So often couples windup blaming each other. Here is a person must be alert when you here "if only you" or "why didn't you" being alert for little clues what a couple says to each other is so important.

 

Your presence in just listening is vital. Hearing them tell their hurt and sorrow is a great comfort. Much of what a counselor does is listen, but unless you have been trained its best to call a Pastor when you see words of blame. The church family is also a support and helps in the emotional healing. no one should expect that the couple will be back to normal in a month or a year, good grief takes time, so be patient allow the couple to bond together and heal at their pace. Keep in mind this is a time when coupled do divorce a,d with the church family, the pastor and close friends the couple stands a far better recovery and grieving process.

 

Praying with the couple, reading Scripture with them, and as the couple seems ready love them back into their normal pattern of life, which may not be back as it was.

 

 

I appreciate your post from the standpoint of my two daughters who've miscarried pregnancies and one who lost their older son due to an accident at home. The younger of the two lost two probably boys early in pregnancy and had strong family and church support. They were able to have two daughters.

 

The older of the two daughters -- she and her husband's older son- died-- Greg decided they'd cope with their loss as a family and not get counseling from church or anyone. The blame was heavy towards our daughter -- a nasty divorce followed through her 'then' husband. They had four other children -- well --they still do. Greg has made it as rough as possible. The one daughter had gotten involved with some kids from the neighborhood and school with the 'choking / fainting game'. Ben was found by his younger brother -accidentally hung himself from his top bunk. He didn't like math and that's what he was supposedly studying from his top bunk. The kids weren't willing to admit what they'd been doing. So - since Ben had been alone -- the police stated it was a suicide rather than an accidental death. The family was half Baptist and half Catholic.

 

Another part of the problem was that Greg was concerned that if the authorities discovered more about their home life - - that C.P.S. might be called in. He was and has been in the military. They weren't usually at home -- they'd be at a park or somewhere to be alone as a family. Their pastor tried to connect with them, but couldn't because they never answered their cell phones.

 

As a result of all this -- our daughter has made some poor choices -- ended up in and out of a couple of mental health facilities and is on medication.

 

Greg had to have someone to blame -- and Debs and us were his targets. We contested the divorce and highly encouraged counseling -- that was ignored and he threatened to take us to court -- which he did -- got a nasty divorce lawyer who helped him get control of everything.

 

I could go on -- but won't.

 

On the flip side -- there was a young couple in another church we'd gone to . Early in their pregnancy they miscarried. Were totally crushed as a couple. The pastor and wife went to their house every day for the first week or so and basically took care of them. After a while they were able to come back to church. Pastor took opportunity to share with the church congregation that they would try to be there the following week -- but to please Not make any big deal about their being back. Allow them to be back quietly. The wife shared some time later that the experience brought her much closer to God than she could have imagined possible. For that she was very thankful. She and her husband later had another child.

 

One thing about counseling -- there are people out there who are ready to help -- but a person needs to be willing to get the help.

 

Thanks for 'listening'.

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I read somewhere that the early church believed in reincarnation, and that it got scrubbed out of the Bible in the early days. Reincarnation actually makes a lot of sense to me, rather than the concept of hell. What do others think?

 

No. Hebrews 9: 27- 8 states 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

There are probably certain Gnostic groups that hold to reincarnation, but they shouldn't be considered historically Christian bodies. There is a Heaven and a Hell, full stop. What happens to unbaptized babies who die before they can get to a baptismal font is not for us to speculate, but for us to simply trust in God's mercy. The Lord knows who are His.

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Come on Baptists, they first reject baptizing children but then try to make a case that children are heaven bound? Are they good enough to enter into heaven but not good enough to receive the covenant sign, seal, and mark and be initiated into the churches?

 

Given both examples, David's son and Jeroboam's son I think one can make a case that a "covenant child" that dies in infancy is in the hands of the Lord. I still see no evidence that non-covenant children receive the same privilege as covenant children. Only one parent of a child needs be believing in a covenant relationship 1 Corinthians 7:14. I am more inclined to believe that those who are members of covenant families and die as infants are regenerated by the grace by God who works when, where, and how he pleases.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

Some churches do infant sprinkling to protect the child until that child is ready - on his own - to believe and receive. Is That Biblical -- no.

 

Some Baptist churches have infant dedication services. They have the parents bring their infant down front of the church in front of the church body - along with any extended family who want to join in. They have the parents promise to raise their child in God's Word and the extended family promising to be supportive of that. They are given a Bible to read to the child as he's getting bigger. The pastor prays with them. That's usually at the end of the service.

 

You have a covenant belief system -- not everyone agrees with that. That doesn't make anyone 'right or wrong'.

 

There are Baptist churches that 'allow' church membership based on a person's salvation and baptism. No one becomes a member by being born into a family that is already a member of the church. Lots of times when families move from one city to another -- they will transfer church membership from one Baptist church to another. They don't have to be baptized again to be able to join the new church. It's coming by "church letter."

 

1 Corinthians 7:14 is talking about believing and non-believing spouses. If the non-believer chooses to stay with the believer -- the non-believer will be sanctified through the believing spouse . Otherwise the children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

The believing spouse would be living as holy a life as possible in order that the unbelieving spouse would see Christ in her life and be won to Christ as a result. The Godly influence in her life would be a holy influence to her husband and children in the home. The footnote at the bottom of my Bible's page continues to say that 'some believe that such children are called holy because they are included with their parents in the new covenant in Christ, just as the children of Abraham were included in the covenant with their father (and so were circumcised).

 

So that's suggesting that children born into covenant homes and die will be okay. But those Not born into such a home are not in that situation. Isn't that kind of saying that children in a covenant home inherit their salvation from believing parents so if they die, they are okay. Otherwise they aren't.

 

You also believe that the Church is Israel.

 

And if a child born into a family who are not believers -- some entirely different -- non-Bible belief system and their child dies -- then that child is less likely to end up in heaven.

 

Well -- each person Does have their beliefs.

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I read somewhere that the early church believed in reincarnation, and that it got scrubbed out of the Bible in the early days. Reincarnation actually makes a lot of sense to me, rather than the concept of hell.

I think it is worth making the point that the eastern idea of reincarnation is actually utterly different than the gospel message of Christ, all he is recorded to have said and done, and is in fact a contradictory concept. So, if it was present there at one time and was later scrubbed out. it would have represented a conflicting message and world view to the gospel. I don't think that God is a God of confusion, so there is no good reason to believe both messages existed together at one time.

 

Eastern religion has been getting a lot of traction lately, and it seems lots of folks find it appealing. However, here is a different take, which I just heard this evening. This fellow makes what I think is a really good point, that a system of reincarnation cannot really offer the hope for the future that the gospel of Jesus Christ does. Have a listen and see what you think.

https://www.truthforlife.org/resources/sermon/knowing-god/

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Being destined to live and die over and over is more like a depiction of hell. I can only imagine that if Reincarnation is true I am in a lot of trouble, because I do not have any memory of previous lives so I am bound to repeat my mistakes for there are no lessons learned.

 

I am thankful that our days are limited upon the earth.

 

God bless,

William

 

Likewise. It sounds like a sadistic recycling system that delights in creating suffering and then creating more suffering. God is not a sadist, but Satan is. One can readily see where the concept of reincarnation originated.

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Some churches do infant sprinkling to protect the child until that child is ready - on his own - to believe and receive. Is That Biblical -- no.

 

Some Baptist churches have infant dedication services. They have the parents bring their infant down front of the church in front of the church body - along with any extended family who want to join in. They have the parents promise to raise their child in God's Word and the extended family promising to be supportive of that. They are given a Bible to read to the child as he's getting bigger. The pastor prays with them. That's usually at the end of the service.

 

You have a covenant belief system -- not everyone agrees with that. That doesn't make anyone 'right or wrong'.

 

There are Baptist churches that 'allow' church membership based on a person's salvation and baptism. No one becomes a member by being born into a family that is already a member of the church. Lots of times when families move from one city to another -- they will transfer church membership from one Baptist church to another. They don't have to be baptized again to be able to join the new church. It's coming by "church letter."

 

1 Corinthians 7:14 is talking about believing and non-believing spouses. If the non-believer chooses to stay with the believer -- the non-believer will be sanctified through the believing spouse . Otherwise the children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

The believing spouse would be living as holy a life as possible in order that the unbelieving spouse would see Christ in her life and be won to Christ as a result. The Godly influence in her life would be a holy influence to her husband and children in the home. The footnote at the bottom of my Bible's page continues to say that 'some believe that such children are called holy because they are included with their parents in the new covenant in Christ, just as the children of Abraham were included in the covenant with their father (and so were circumcised).

 

So that's suggesting that children born into covenant homes and die will be okay. But those Not born into such a home are not in that situation. Isn't that kind of saying that children in a covenant home inherit their salvation from believing parents so if they die, they are okay. Otherwise they aren't.

 

You also believe that the Church is Israel.

 

And if a child born into a family who are not believers -- some entirely different -- non-Bible belief system and their child dies -- then that child is less likely to end up in heaven.

 

Well -- each person Does have their beliefs.

 

I do not believe that a child under the age of accountability goes to hell. I find no place in Scripture to support a child will go to hell until they can make that Spiritual choice.

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William -- back in post 30 on the previous page -- lots of subjects were being covered. I'll refer back to the marriage -- unbelieving / believing spouses -- Scripture says we are not to be yoked together with non-believers in marriage. Believers are to seek marriage with other believers. Sometimes two non-believers get married and then one is reached with the Gospel and does accept. That makes the union unequal -- and that is where the non-believing spouse has the option of staying or leaving. The believing spouse is not to force the non-believer to stay or leave. But they are to - as much as possible -- keep peace within their household - for the sake of the spouse and any children already in the household.

 

In the New Testament - believers' baptism is by immersion to show Outwardly to others what has already taken place Inwardly. That the person believes that Jesus Christ died and was buried and then rose again -- giving a person New life in Christ. Our goal / aim would be to live a Christ-like life in home -- community and draw people to Christ. Thus -- we have baptistries -- lakes -- pools -- to have baptisimal services in. The person doing the baptizing --usually the pastor will confirm with the person his / her salvation and say 'My brother / sister in Christ -- I now baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The person is dunked completely under the water and raised back up immediately. A church we went to many years ago had their baptisimal service in the nearby park lake. Very Scriptural -- out in the open where everyone could observe what was happening and why.

 

Other than 'this' I'm not here to pick a fight or debate much of anything. Just sharing. I do take a stand when I feel it's important. But I also know when I'm in over my head. You and I have some different beliefs. Salvation is the most important subject -- each of us Will enter eternity in the future -- it's important to be prepared Spiritually for that. Scripture tells us to share Gospel of salvation with all who are willing to listen. It's up to them to accept or reject.

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And, reincarnation is not Scriptural. Each person dies once and then on to judgement. Well -- Most everyone. There are some Old Testament men who were 'taken' -- didn't die.

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