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SovereignGraceSingles

Welcome to SovereignGraceSingles.com. Where Reformed Faith and Romance Come Together! We are the only Christian dating website for Christian Singles in the Reformed Faith worldwide. Our focus is to bring together Christian singles of all ages. Reformed single Christian men and women who wish to meet other Reformed Christian singles for spiritually, like-minded, loving relationships.

SovereignGraceSingles

Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” - Genesis 2:18

SovereignGraceSingles

Meet Like Minded Believers Can two walk together except they be agreed? - Amos 3:3

SovereignGraceSingles

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

SovereignGraceSingles

SGS offers a "fenced" community: both for private single members and also a public Protestant forums open to Bible-believing Christians such as Presbyterians, Lutherans, Reformed, Baptists, Church of Christ members, Pentecostals, Anglicans. Methodists, Charismatics, or any other conservative, Nicene-derived Christian Church.
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Hidden Manna

Love fulfills the law

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Hidden Manna
When we are in Christ we are not in sin, we are in perfection. But our flesh still does sin. But that sin is not imputed to us because there is no law. However, if we still cling to the law, sin IS IMPUTED to us.

 

The above statement is also a sign of this new hyper grace movement and of the false doctrines of men, like with the t.v. evangelist Joseph Prince. This concept of continuing in sin, but at the same time declaring yourself as "perfect" in Christ is rooted in the doctrine of men called Dualism. I call it a doctrine of a "disassociated identity" because the person who is under this strong delusion believes their constant sinning in the flesh while in this world has no effect on their already obtained "spiritual perfection". So they try to mentally disassociate themselves from their sinful behavior, and believe they will not be held accountable for it because they are already "spiritually perfect".

 

I've had people of this movement tell me a practicing homosexual is still in Christ, even though they continue in their sins. One guy told me, if that practicing homosexual died he would still be saved because he was already made perfect in Christ. This of course is foolishness because a practicing homosexual who never repented of his sinful behavior was never in Christ by the Spirit to begin with.

 

This hyper grace movement is a fast growing deception which is pleasing to sinners because they believe they can sin all they want and still be saved, even while they commit abominations like homosexuality. I would advise you stay away from these doctrines as they are not of God.

 

 

 

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Ransol
When we are in Christ we are not in sin, we are in perfection. But our flesh still does sin. But that sin is not imputed to us because there is no law. However, if we still cling to the law, sin IS IMPUTED to us.

 

The above statement is also a sign of this new hyper grace movement and of the false doctrines of men, like with the t.v. evangelist Joseph Prince. This concept of continuing in sin, but at the same time declaring yourself as "perfect" in Christ is rooted in the doctrine of men called Dualism. I call it a doctrine of a "disassociated identity" because the person who is under this strong delusion believes their constant sinning in the flesh while in this world has no effect on their already obtained "spiritual perfection". So they try to mentally disassociate themselves from their sinful behavior, and believe they will not be held accountable for it because they are already "spiritually perfect".

 

I've had people of this movement tell me a practicing homosexual is still in Christ, even though they continue in their sins. One guy told me, if that practicing homosexual died he would still be saved because he was already made perfect in Christ. This of course is foolishness because a practicing homosexual who never repented of his sinful behavior was never in Christ by the Spirit to begin with.

 

This hyper grace movement is a fast growing deception which is pleasing to sinners because they believe they can sin all they want and still be saved, even while they commit abominations like homosexuality. I would advise you stay away from these doctrines as they are not of God.

 

 

Are you mocking Grace, tramppling it under foot? Just what do you think the Gospel is?

 

I'm going to walk you thru a verse that I'm sure you're very familiar with but exciting about grabbed you after running it through your "What an angry God we serve" filter.

 

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you ARE SO SOON REMOVED FROM HIM, who called you into THE GRACE OF CHRIST unto ANOTHER gospel. Do you see It? By believing your other gospel, which is NOT a gospel at all, you are removed from Him (God the Father). GRACE is the Gospel.

 

Are you trying to say that "where sin abounds, judgment wrath, and punishment "HYPER abounds?" Is that how you read that verse? Actually, it reads ....GRACE Hyper abounds.

 

I know you believe whole heartedly what you've said, but you're completely wrong. Faith comes by hearing, but what you're hearing is not the Gospel. When you preach your other gospel, do you get accused of say ,"Let us sin more, that Grace should come" as Paul was when He preached the Gospel? I bet no one ever accused you of that. Romans 3:8

 

Also, you obviously do not understand RIGHTEOUSNESS,how to get it and how to receive it. The verses you listed would have to be taken completely out of context or twisted to make them agree with you. Understanding righteousness is what separates the mature in faith from the babes. Hebrews 5:13

 

You gave "If you love me, keep my c ommandments." as if the commandments He is talking about is the 10 Commandments. It's not, but that is what's stands out after running thru your filter. Look a few verses down the page and He says, "and this is my commandments, love....) Jesus said that in the book of John, and John recorded it again in 1 John. Check it out.

 

Nothing you posted is in context with scripture. Take out the "text" and all you're left with is the con.

 

BTW, Joseph Prince understands Grace, Churches like his are growing like crazy, those who teach the law are fading away. Just like Jesus said to the Church of Ephesus, remember from where you are fallen or I will remove your candlestick. I know you probably think that means they're going to Hell, but No. It means He will remove their influence. Where are we fallen From? We fall from Grace by going back under the law Galatians 5:4

 

There is so much to say, but I'm not sure you're even paying attention. So, if you want me to show you another verse you're taken out of context, just tell me which one.

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Hidden Manna

I fully understand God's grace and His imputed righteousness by the Spirit, but God's grace and imputed righteousness is given for the obedience of the faith; it is not given so we can be disobedient and used as a license to sin. The new hyper grace movement are the ones who are "another gospel" and who are trampling under foot the Son of God by preaching a sin all you want and still be saved doctrine. Jesus did not come to die for our sins so we can continue to keep on sinning.

 

Jesus Christ came to take our sins upon himself and become a sacrifice for our sins, to forgive us our past sins, and also by His death and resurrection to make us free from sins influence in our lives by the Spirit of grace. (this is the good news of the gospel)

 

It is those who willfully sin after receiving the spirit of grace that are going into destruction, because they have fallen away from the faith, and even deny the Lord by their own sinful behavior and evil works.

 

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-31(KJV)[/h] 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

 

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Ransol
I fully understand God's grace and His imputed righteousness by the Spirit, but God's grace and imputed righteousness is given for the obedience of the faith; it is not given so we can be disobedient and used as a license to sin. The new hyper grace movement are the ones who are "another gospel" and who are trampling under foot the Son of God by preaching a sin all you want and still be saved doctrine. Jesus did not come to die for our sins so we can continue to keep on sinning.

 

Jesus Christ came to take our sins upon himself and become a sacrifice for our sins, to forgive us our past sins, and also by His death and resurrection to make us free from sins influence in our lives by the Spirit of grace. (this is the good news of the gospel)

 

It is those who willfully sin after receiving the spirit of grace that are going into destruction, because they have fallen away from the faith, and even deny the Lord by their own sinful behavior and evil works.

 

[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-31(KJV)[/h] 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

Okay, good. I'm glad to hear you say that understand Grace. Good.

 

But, who wants to Sin? Who is teaching to sin as much as you want? Not Joseph Prince. He makes a point to say the opposite pretty much every time I've heard him preach. I've never heard any one preach that, I've only heard people, including myself, who didn't understand how Grace, HYPER Grace, works, say things like that. GRACE is not a license to sin, the 10 Commandments are. Grace teaches us to say No to ungodliness. The 10 commandments cause us to sin more.

 

You never hear of Grace preacher's getting caught in adultery, or some other illegal scheme. No, that is always those fire and brimstone, 10 commandment-toten preacher's. My best friend's ex pastor was one of them.

 

The point is, sin has been judged and punished in Christ, and if we walk in the light of that TRUTH as He is in the light of that TRUTH, He cleanses us from all our sins. Sin is going to happen, but that is the OLD man, and we are not to pay any attention to him but to focus all our minds thoughts on the New MAN. Old man is the flesh, new man is the spirit. The 10 commandments preacher's always focus people on the OLD man (under that covenant, there was no new man), instead of focusing on Christ. and what did Paaul say about That? God will not be mocked, if we sew to the flesh (Old man) we will reap to the flesh (only more fleshly stuff. Not that all fleshly stuff is bad, but a lot of it is, but here he is talking about all that fleshly corruption he mentioned earlier). This probably needs a lot more explaining, but for a another time.

 

That's what I like about Joseph Prince, He teaches to focus on the New MAN, to focus on who we are In Christ. This doesn't make you want to sin it makes you want to tell the world how good God is.

 

I know there are those who use Grace as an excuse to continue in sin. They're mentioned in Revelation 2 or 3 times, but I've never actually met them, but they don't understand Grace. I have met those who are trying so hard to stop sinning but can't because they were trying to stop with their own power (Old man). I was one of them. It wasn't until I quit trying in the flesh that I learned who I am in Christ, that those sins just fell off, I lost all interest. It wasn't difficult at all. He did it for me. I'm not even tempted by them any more. It's the law that tempts us.

 

BTW, Paul also was accused of saying let us sin more that Grace should come. Romans 3:8. I think those pastors who DON'T get accused of saying that, should take a good hard look at what they are preaching.

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Hidden Manna
GRACE is not a license to sin, the 10 Commandments are.

 

This is a common pattern I saw in hyper grace followers doctrine, as I also saw in your posts from the start. Hyper grace followers do not speak evil of sin, or even speak out against sin, but they do speak evil of God's law.

 

The 10 commandments cause us to sin more.

 

There it is again, God's commands do not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13)

 

You never hear of Grace preacher's getting caught in adultery, or some other illegal scheme.

 

Not true, most all claim to be grace teachers, but you will know them by their fruit. Joseph Prince is serving the "unrighteous mammon" and preaches a health, wealth, and prosperity doctrine which serves the lusts and desires of the flesh. You cannot serve 2 masters. I know his false doctrine well, as I fought against IT for over a year at another forum where this hyper grace movement had already over run the forum.

 

Sin is going to happen, but that is the OLD man, and we are not to pay any attention to him but to focus all our minds thoughts on the New MAN. Old man is the flesh, new man is the spirit.

 

This is another error of the hyper grace doctrine, they believe that after being born again of the Spirit we still serve both sin and righteousness, both the old man nature and the new man nature, both the flesh and the Spirit. If you live after the flesh you shall die. (Romans 8:13) Also the old man and his sin nature should be dead and gone, that is, if you are truly raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

It's the law that tempts us.

 

Again we see the error of the hyper grace doctrine which speaks evil of the law that was given by God, but does not speak evil of sin. This is also how I know this doctrine is not of God's Spirit.

[h=1]James 1:13-14(KJV)[/h] 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

Also no one of God's Spirit would speak evil of God's law......

 

 

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ransol
GRACE is not a license to sin, the 10 Commandments are.

 

This is a common pattern I saw in hyper grace followers doctrine, as I also saw in your posts from the start. Hyper grace followers do not speak evil of sin, or even speak out against sin, but they do speak evil of God's law.

 

The 10 commandments cause us to sin more.

 

There it is again, God's commands do not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13)

 

You never hear of Grace preacher's getting caught in adultery, or some other illegal scheme.

 

Not true, most all claim to be grace teachers, but you will know them by their fruit. Joseph Prince is serving the "unrighteous mammon" and preaches a health, wealth, and prosperity doctrine which serves the lusts and desires of the flesh. You cannot serve 2 masters. I know his false doctrine well, as I fought against IT for over a year at another forum where this hyper grace movement had already over run the forum.

 

Sin is going to happen, but that is the OLD man, and we are not to pay any attention to him but to focus all our minds thoughts on the New MAN. Old man is the flesh, new man is the spirit.

 

This is another error of the hyper grace doctrine, they believe that after being born again of the Spirit we still serve both sin and righteousness, both the old man nature and the new man nature, both the flesh and the Spirit. If you live after the flesh you shall die. (Romans 8:13) Also the old man and his sin nature should be dead and gone, that is, if you are truly raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

It's the law that tempts us.

 

Again we see the error of the hyper grace doctrine which speaks evil of the law that was given by God, but does not speak evil of sin. This is also how I know this doctrine is not of God's Spirit.

[h=1]James 1:13-14(KJV)[/h] 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

Also no one of God's Spirit would speak evil of God's law......

 

 

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:56 the law is the strength of sin

 

Sin will not have dominion over you because you ARE NOT under the law but under grace.

 

The law was given so that the offence would abound.

 

For the law is the knowledge of sin (Hey, so was the forbidden fruit which God said NOT TO EAT OF IT)

 

10 commandments are the ministry of death a nd condemnation. 2 Corinthians 3:6-10

 

There are so many more.

 

A prosperity preacher tells you that if you give, God will bless you. That is not what Joseph Prince teaches. He preaches Isaiah 54, Jerimiah 23, and 33 and so many other OR scriptures pointing to the fact that God blesses once Christ is sacrificed for our sins because we are removed from the law and the curse .

 

associated with it.

 

Sickness, disease, poverty depression, are all part of the curse of the law. None of that is in my house. Ever.

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Ransol
GRACE is not a license to sin, the 10 Commandments are.

 

This is a common pattern I saw in hyper grace followers doctrine, as I also saw in your posts from the start. Hyper grace followers do not speak evil of sin, or even speak out against sin, but they do speak evil of God's law.

 

The 10 commandments cause us to sin more.

 

There it is again, God's commands do not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13)

 

You never hear of Grace preacher's getting caught in adultery, or some other illegal scheme.

 

Not true, most all claim to be grace teachers, but you will know them by their fruit. Joseph Prince is serving the "unrighteous mammon" and preaches a health, wealth, and prosperity doctrine which serves the lusts and desires of the flesh. You cannot serve 2 masters. I know his false doctrine well, as I fought against IT for over a year at another forum where this hyper grace movement had already over run the forum.

 

Sin is going to happen, but that is the OLD man, and we are not to pay any attention to him but to focus all our minds thoughts on the New MAN. Old man is the flesh, new man is the spirit.

 

This is another error of the hyper grace doctrine, they believe that after being born again of the Spirit we still serve both sin and righteousness, both the old man nature and the new man nature, both the flesh and the Spirit. If you live after the flesh you shall die. (Romans 8:13) Also the old man and his sin nature should be dead and gone, that is, if you are truly raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

It's the law that tempts us.

 

Again we see the error of the hyper grace doctrine which speaks evil of the law that was given by God, but does not speak evil of sin. This is also how I know this doctrine is not of God's Spirit.

[h=1]James 1:13-14(KJV)[/h] 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

Also no one of God's Spirit would speak evil of God's law......

 

 

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jim Baker was a prosperity preacher, but he loved pushing the law and condemning Christians.

 

Swaggard (sp?) Big time guilt and condemnation preacher.

 

I can't think of any others right now, but I'm sure there are many.

 

When the law was given, 50 days after Passover (Penticost) , 3000 people died. When the Holy Spirit was given, also 50 days after Passover, 3000 people saved. The Letter Kills, the Spirit gives life.

 

Moses first miracle turning water to blood. Signifying death. Jesus first miracle was turning water into wine, signifying Life.

 

We are not under the law. It's the first thing a Christian should learn. In China and Africa, they are learning it, but not in USA. Churches in US are fading fast, In other parts of the world they are growing like wild fire.

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Hidden Manna

You have a misunderstanding about the law and sin; which is why you see the law as the problem rather than sin. Here is a thread I posted on this topic which may help you to understand what Paul was saying---->>>>>https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/covenant-theology/61821-the-curse-of-the-law

 

There is an easy way to spot a false grace message.

 

The true grace message says under God's grace sin shall not have dominion over you.

 

The false grace message says under God's grace sin still has dominion over you.

 

See the opposite message?

 

Death reigns through sin. But God's grace reigns through righteousness.

 

So though God's grace and imputed righteousness is a gift, if God's grace is active in your life by the Spirit, then you will no longer be serving the lusts of the flesh and sin.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:34

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

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Ransol
GRACE is not a license to sin, the 10 Commandments are.

 

This is a common pattern I saw in hyper grace followers doctrine, as I also saw in your posts from the start. Hyper grace followers do not speak evil of sin, or even speak out against sin, but they do speak evil of God's law.

 

The 10 commandments cause us to sin more.

 

There it is again, God's commands do not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13)

 

You never hear of Grace preacher's getting caught in adultery, or some other illegal scheme.

 

Not true, most all claim to be grace teachers, but you will know them by their fruit. Joseph Prince is serving the "unrighteous mammon" and preaches a health, wealth, and prosperity doctrine which serves the lusts and desires of the flesh. You cannot serve 2 masters. I know his false doctrine well, as I fought against IT for over a year at another forum where this hyper grace movement had already over run the forum.

 

Sin is going to happen, but that is the OLD man, and we are not to pay any attention to him but to focus all our minds thoughts on the New MAN. Old man is the flesh, new man is the spirit.

 

This is another error of the hyper grace doctrine, they believe that after being born again of the Spirit we still serve both sin and righteousness, both the old man nature and the new man nature, both the flesh and the Spirit. If you live after the flesh you shall die. (Romans 8:13) Also the old man and his sin nature should be dead and gone, that is, if you are truly raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

It's the law that tempts us.

 

Again we see the error of the hyper grace doctrine which speaks evil of the law that was given by God, but does not speak evil of sin. This is also how I know this doctrine is not of God's Spirit.

[h=1]James 1:13-14(KJV)[/h] 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

Also no one of God's Spirit would speak evil of God's law......

 

 

Isaiah 8:20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should become familiar with Romans 7:1-6. Study it, and pay particular attention to verse 5, the motions of sin, WHICH WERE BY THE LAW.... brings forth fruit unto death (like sickness, disease, poverty, depression: the curses of the law) .

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Ransol
You have a misunderstanding about the law and sin; which is why you see the law as the problem rather than sin. Here is a thread I posted on this topic which may help you to understand what Paul was saying---->>>>>https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/covenant-theology/61821-the-curse-of-the-law

 

There is an easy way to spot a false grace message.

 

The true grace message says under God's grace sin shall not have dominion over you.

 

The false grace message says under God's grace sin still has dominion over you.

 

See the opposite message?

 

Death reigns through sin. But God's grace reigns through righteousness.

 

So though God's grace and imputed righteousness is a gift, if God's grace is active in your life by the Spirit, then you will no longer be serving the lusts of the flesh and sin.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:34

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

I think you are misunderstanding me. True Grace says sin will not have dominion over us because WE ARE NOT under law. Sin Has Zero dominion over me. I struggle with no sin. Under the law, I struggled with lots of sin. I hated that sin, but No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't break free of it. Not until I realized that Grace is enough. No body is saying keep you sin, or stay in your sin because it's covered. We are saying, Grace is the only way out. You trying to keep the law, will not take away the lust of the flesh. That would be like feeding the OLD man taking care of all his needs, and hoping he dies.

 

What I think you still don't understand is that we are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. That is our nature, so we are just being true to our nature. However, Jesus gave us a new nature: the spirit, His Spirit. That old nature, is the OLD man. Even if you get that old man to perfectly submit and never sin a gain, SO WHAT? He is still NOTHING and we still should put no confidence in Him. He is still dead.

 

We are perfected, forever in Him.

 

Paul said that if he does not want to do sin, but he does it anyway, it's NOT HIM doing it, but SIN that is still in him. It's that old man doing what the flesh does. I'm not saying, so it's ok to sin, I'm not. Because Paul also said that just not wanting to do to it, we are approving the law, that it is good. So, when we do what we dont want to do, then it is no longer us (the new man) doing it, but the OLD man.

 

If we believe in Christ, we have eternal life, that's Jesus promise. Sin does not change that. Only faith can change that. If we believe in Christ, we ARE PERFECTED FOREVER. We ARE PERFECT in God's eyes. He will not be angry with us, nor rebuke us. All of our judgment and punishment was put on Christ.

 

Where in scripture to you find that we SHOULD teach and focus on Sin?

Also, I'd like to know what you believe happens when we do sin. Or, do you never sin any more? I'm just trying to see where you're coming from.

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Ransol
You have a misunderstanding about the law and sin; which is why you see the law as the problem rather than sin. Here is a thread I posted on this topic which may help you to understand what Paul was saying---->>>>>https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/covenant-theology/61821-the-curse-of-the-law

 

There is an easy way to spot a false grace message.

 

The true grace message says under God's grace sin shall not have dominion over you.

 

The false grace message says under God's grace sin still has dominion over you.

 

See the opposite message?

 

Death reigns through sin. But God's grace reigns through righteousness.

 

So though God's grace and imputed righteousness is a gift, if God's grace is active in your life by the Spirit, then you will no longer be serving the lusts of the flesh and sin.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:34

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Hebrews 8:10 begins to lay out our NEW COVENANT. It says nothing about keeping the 10 Commandments. It just says that He wrote them on our hearts and mind. The old covenant gave the 10 Commandments, the it told what to do when we break them (we always break them). Under the new covenant, He just says He will be merciful when we break them. But He also never said what we should do when we break them, it's NOT in this covenant. What we should do when we break a law in the OLD covenant, is sacrifice an offering. But Jesus is our perfect sacrifice, no more sacrifice is needed.

 

Note also that He didn't say He would be merciful to our unrighteousness IF ANYTHING. Who keeps adding that in?

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Hidden Manna
What I think you still don't understand is that we are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. That is our nature, so we are just being true to our nature.

 

That is why we must be born again of God's Spirit and given a new nature in Christ, which serves righteousness and not sin. I've found while debating these hyper grace followers that they believe if you remove the law you also remove sin, but all that makes for is a bunch of "lawless" sinners. Jesus said those who commit sin are servants of sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. But those who the Son makes free, they shall be free indeed. It is that sin nature we need to be made free from, not the law. Believing in Jesus Christ is also believing in the Truth, and as Jesus said the Truth shall make you free.

 

The Son of God is the Word of God, and God's Word is the way, the truth and the Life. We are not made free from sin by removing the law, we are made free from sin by the putting to death of that old man of sin nature through the power of Christ's resurrection. And if you are truly made free by the power of God's Spirit then you will no longer serve sin. Those who commit sin are of the Devil, those who walk in the Spirit of righteousness are of God. You shall know a tree by his fruit.

 

So if the deceiver has convinced you the law is the problem rather than sin, then you have believed the lies of the Devil; and no lie is of the Truth. We cannot make ourselves free by keeping the law, it is the Son of God who can make us free. Believing in the words of God is believing in Jesus Christ.

 

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Ransol
What I think you still don't understand is that we are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. That is our nature, so we are just being true to our nature.

 

That is why we must be born again of God's Spirit and given a new nature in Christ, which serves righteousness and not sin. I've found while debating these hyper grace followers that they believe if you remove the law you also remove sin, but all that makes for is a bunch of "lawless" sinners. Jesus said those who commit sin are servants of sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever. But those who the Son makes free, they shall be free indeed. It is that sin nature we need to be made free from, not the law. Believing in Jesus Christ is also believing in the Truth, and as Jesus said the Truth shall make you free.

 

The Son of God is the Word of God, and God's Word is the way, the truth and the Life. We are not made free from sin by removing the law, we are made free from sin by the putting to death of that old man of sin nature through the power of Christ's resurrection. And if you are truly made free by the power of God's Spirit then you will no longer serve sin. Those who commit sin are of the Devil, those who walk in the Spirit of righteousness are of God. You shall know a tree by his fruit.

 

So if the deceiver has convinced you the law is the problem rather than sin, then you have believed the lies of the Devil; and no lie is of the Truth. We cannot make ourselves free by keeping the law, it is the Son of God who can make us free. Believing in the words of God is believing in Jesus Christ.

Romans 7, do you believe there are two covenants? I'm going to assume you do. 1st covenant is the law. BEFORE YOU CAN be married to another the former covenant must be dead. Your former husband must be dead or YOU WILL BE CALLED ADULTRESS. You are trying to start a new covenant of Grace while you're still in the first covenant.

 

The fruit of the new covenant is not something you work so hard to produce. It comes naturally under grace. Notice in Romans 7:4 tha t leaving that dead covenant and being married to another is how you bring forth fruit.

 

In a real life marriage, babies are the fruit of the covenant. They are a natural part of being in that covenant. It's not hard work tyo bring forth fruit, it's pleasurable. It's the same in the new covenant of Grace, which you can't fully get into, until you end the first one. How, by becoming dead in Christ to the law. We a re dead, buried, and resurrected with Him.

 

Bringing baggage from the first covenant into the new, is not fair to our new spouse. You must separate the two covenants.

 

Just so you know Paaul is talking about the 10 Commandments here look down to verse 7, I would not have known lust had the law not SAID, THOU SHOU NOT LUST. Only the 10 Commandments said that.

 

I know you think you understand Grace, but you really don't. You have NEVER even started to live until you experience His Grace.

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Hidden Manna

The hyper grace movement tries to use Romans 7 as an sort of justification for their ongoing sinful behavior, but like Peter said, the unlearned and unstable struggle to understand what Paul was saying in his writings.

 

Here is a post I made about the Romans 7 condition---->>>>https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/morality-and-laws/62298-the-son-can-make-you-free-from-the-romans-7-condition

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Ransol
The hyper grace movement tries to use Romans 7 as an sort of justification for their ongoing sinful behavior, but like Peter said, the unlearned and unstable struggle to understand what Paul was saying in his writings.

 

Here is a post I made about the Romans 7 condition---->>>>https://www.christforums.org/forum/christian-community/morality-and-laws/62298-the-son-can-make-you-free-from-the-romans-7-condition

Yeah, Peter didn't understand Grace too well either. He was sent to preach to those under the law, but Paul was sent to us gentiles who were never Under the law.

 

Why did you think Grace is keep us in sin. Jesus didn't give Zach the little tree guy laws or commandments, just gave Him love and Grace. Look how it changed him. Just before we are told about Zach, we're told about the rich young ruler, who got nothing but law and commandments, He came in proud, but went away sad. Zach willing to give up lots, the young ruler walked away unwilling to give up anything. That's the difference between what the law does to us and what Grace does to us. Look also at the woman who washed Jesus feet with her tears and Simon the host of that party.

 

You still don't know Grace. The law is Satan's power over you. Do you want to know that verse? Are you even reading any of this? Or do you not want to know Grace and TRUTH, that came with Jesus.

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Hidden Manna

Well, I've tried to reason with you out of the scriptures, but there comes a point when I begin to repeat myself over and over again, so no point in continuing this conversation. Hopefully you will come to see by the grace of God that sin and Death are the enemy, not God's holy commandments. Peace and God bless

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Ransol
Well, I've tried to reason with you out of the scriptures, but there comes a point when I begin to repeat myself over and over again, so no point in continuing this conversation. Hopefully you will come to see by the grace of God that sin and Death are the enemy, not God's holy commandments. Peace and God bless

Yes, sin and death ARE the enemy and both are associated with the law, the OLD covenant. That's why the new covenant built on better promises is better. I will never go back to the law now that I know the truth. I'm reigning in life over sin, sickness disease and poverty just like Romans 5:17 says we will. The truth (which came by Jesus with grace) can't set you free unless you know it.

 

Sin has no power over us because WE ARE NOT under the law but under grace. So when sin does have power over us it's because we ARE under the law.

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Meir-Simchah
The law came by Moses, Grace and truth come by Christ Jesus, and Paul points out that sin shall not have dominion over us under his grace. Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. So I probably dont get why it should be considered acceptable that sin should have dominion over us under grace . Since we are not under law but under grace (under which sin would have no dominion) even as we are told not to let sin reign in our mortal body, that we should obey it in the lusts thereof. And also in respects to our walk he says, Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. So walk by one and you will not be fulfilling the other. Considering our walk again, he also says in Ephes 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. As we know God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. So if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. Jesus said, John 8:12 I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. But we were in darkness sure even as it says here in Ephes 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light. Whereas in 1 John 1;6 he says, If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. No one can say they have not sinned for the scriptures state all have sinned, Paul says dont obey sin in your members so I cannot see how one can be without sin, but when it comes to grace sin shall not have dominion over us. As Jesus said in John 8:34 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. Paul also speaks of being servants of sin beginning in Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. He also said, For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. You can see the progression from the one chapter into the next how he speaks and according to what like when he says, "I speak as a man" on these sorts of things.

 

That would make for a decent topic by itself, thats one of my favorites

Wow! That's a fascinating position. Is this your unique idea, or is this official dogma or a whole group?

 

What does it mean to not be accountable to the 10 commandments? Is it permissible then to murder, adulter, worship idols, deny the unity of God? Or is all that stuff still bad but for some other reason?

 

(Btw, why focus on the so-called "10 Commandments" when there are hundreds of other commandments in the Hebrew Bible?)

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Fireproof

Meir-Simchah replies,

Wow! That's a fascinating position.



Which position on which particular scripture is so fascinating?

 

 

What does it mean to not be accountable to the 10 commandments?



We are told we shall give an account of ourselves to God, although, I am not sure what you might mean by us being "accountable to the 10 commandments"

 

Is it permissible then to murder, adulter, worship idols, deny the unity of God? Or is all that stuff still bad but for some other reason?



Are we given some kind of license to sin under grace? Is that what you are asking? I can't tell where your reasoning comes from but the question, "shall we sin that grace might abound" is also mentioned in scripture.

 

 

(Btw, why focus on the so-called "10 Commandments" when there are hundreds of other commandments in the Hebrew Bible?)



The title of the thread is "Love fulfills the law" which is what Paul (a Hebrew of the Hebrews) touches upon concerning the same commandments in its context along with " if there be any other commandment" here...

Romans 13: 9-10 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Which again pertains to the title of the thread).

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