Jump to content

The Christian Protestant Community Forums

Sincerely inquiring about the Protestant faith? Welcome to Christforums the Christian Protestant community forums. You'll first need to register in order to join our community. Create or respond to threads on your favorite topics and subjects. Registration takes less than a minute, it's simple, fast, and free! Enjoy the fellowship! God bless, Christforums' Staff
Register now

Community Fellowship

John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
Sign in to follow this  
hoper

An unprecedented event: would you join?

Recommended Posts

 

"knock and the door will be opened to you.

 

Imagine this unprecedented event. Christians, from all over the world, united physically in congregations, united virtually through technology, united spiritually in the Holy Ghost, praying together with a clear, unified intention: shortening, hastening the Return of the Lord (2Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13) Wouldn’t the Lord be quick, in fulfilling their holy prayer?

[…] And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?

 

 

SUMMARY

1 - Brief history of the Church

2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans

3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer

4 – The Rapture

5 – While in the world

6 – Warnings

7 – Avoid misconceptions

8 – An unprecedented event

 

1 - Brief history of the Church

 

Along the history, many spiritual leaders did not listen to (Matthew 23:9-10)And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.” Therefore, it comes as no surprise that many false teachings did spread for centuries. Nor it is a surprise that true Christians come to a better understanding of some concepts through centuries, because luckily some of them are able to get rid of the false teachings they have received. Indeed, luckily some listened to Matthew 23:9-10. Moreover, Jesus said (John 16:12):I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.Thus, an increasing understanding, founded on the Gospels and never contradicting them, is to be expected through history.

 

2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans

 

Even though God could do everything alone, by not waiting his followers to align their will to His will, still he wants men to decide to cooperate with Him, to proceed in His salvation Plan. For those who knows the Scriptures, it’s not needed to quote the countless times in which God waited for men to turn to Him, and adhere His plan, before making things happen. Because being a loving Father, he doesn’t force His will upon men.

 

3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer

 

Point 2 on cooperation between God and men, is one of the reasons why Jesus stressed so much the importance of prayer. To be short, we only quote some passages, but there are countless ones in the Gospels alone: (Matthew 7:7) “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (John 16:24) “Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.” Of course, we need to make prayers aligned with God’s will. But even if something is already in God’s will, it’s really important for us to pray for it, because the Lord don’t want to force his gifts upon us, but want us to desire Him. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be any need for any prayer whatsoever. Now, what’s the only prayer that the Lord directly taught us? The Lord’s prayer. Let’s examine some passages: “your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” […] “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” Now, let’s think about it, by knowing the Scriptures. When and how can the Lord completely fulfill these requests? Could they be fulfilled while we are still on earth?

 

4 – The Rapture

 

It doesn’t take a leap of imagination, to realize that the Lord’s prayer promises will be fully fulfilled only with the Rapture and His Second Coming. [Even the only apparently not messianic request about the “bread”, is translated somewhere as “the bread of tomorrow”, thus indicating the bread of the Kingdom.] Now, it’s not a purpose of this work to choose which interpretation of the Second Coming is more Scriptural. Whatever it is, pre/post/multi/anti/tribulation,this is not the point here. The point is that only in the Last Day, the Lord will fully fulfill the Lord’s prayer requests. Now, are we aware of this? Are we, most Christians, praying that prayer with full intention and awareness, with the awareness that we are asking the Lord, according to His will, to shorten the days of His coming? It doesn’t seem like this awareness has been fully reached so far, but now the times may be arrived. Now this intention can be shared to Christians all over the earth. And it’s nothing new, it’s something fully Scriptural (Matthew 24:22, Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13), it’s just a better understanding of the power of our prayer in the name of Jesus. We are not predicting the day or the hour, and we’ll never try to do it. There is no needing of knowing the day nor the our, to ask the Lord to come quick, according to His will. How powerful would be this prayer, shouted by all His elects? What if some wise pastors could be able to share this intention to Christians all over the world, and all together we could pray “Come”, and “Deliver us from evil”, with the full understanding that we are asking for the Rapture, instead of passively waiting for it? This would be an unprecedented event in History, since so far most Christians have passively waited for it

 

 

5 – While in the world

 

Asking for the rapture, doesn’t cut off any obligation for a true Christian life. Before Jesus returns, we’ll still have the obligation to love everyone, serve other people, improve the society, improve ourself, spread the Gospel. All of these commandments are in the Gospel and are immutable. At the same time, with this prayer, we clarify our intention to God, we tell Him that we are ready, and it is now time for our plans to align with His plans, and that we fully want and responsibly request His return for the elects.

 

6 – Warnings

 

Unfortunately, there will always be some Christians who don’t really want the Lord to come soon. They are not excited at all about Heaven. Exactly like in these Parables: (Luke 14:15-20) “When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ (Luke 19:14) "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' (John 12:43) “For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.” But other Christians who aspire to Heaven, would have no reason to not pray this prayer. In the worst case, it will have no effect. In the best case, how glad we will be, to see the Lord coming quick for us.

 

7 – Avoid misconceptions

Q: “Does praying the Lord to come quick, mean that we don’t trust His promise that He will come?”

A: “Absolutely not. The Lord knew the future. He knew about the prayers from His elects, and that he wouldn’t wait to fulfill them. Exactly as in countless other situations, in which the Lord has waited for men to ask Him for what is good. (Matthew 15:21-28). We are sure that His promise will be fulfilled, but we want to be among the ones that have aligned with His will and asked Him to fulfill it quickly.”

Q: “Are we forcing the Lord to do something not in His will? Doesn’t He know the Right Time?”

A: “He knows the Right Time, and we don’t know according to which criteria He has decided it. But maybe, when He decided it, part of the weight for the decision, came from considering the prayers of His elects (Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13, Luke 18:1-8). Exactly as in other situations, He gave importance and weight to the will of his disciples and prophets, when aligned to His will”

Q: “Are Christians praying this prayer exempt to contribute to society, and to spend their lives serving others until the Lord come?”

A: “Absolutely not. A real Christian will follow all Jesus words,not only ones about prayer,respect the laws of his country, and will spend His life helping other people, so that when the Lord will come, he will find him ready.” (Matthew 24:45-51) “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Q: “Will shortening the return of the Lord prevent some people from salvation?”

A: “First off, remember that there will never be a moment on earth in which everyone will be Christian, before the rapture. It is not written anywhere. On the contrary, it is written about an increasingly diminishing of faith. Moreover, people who haven’t met Christ but are seeking for the Truth in their hearts, and are loving their brothers, will be likely raptured too. Exactly as some other righteous people like Socrates, will be raised in the last day, while evil people who are not seeking for repentance because they don’t have the seed of repentance in their hearts, will be left. Therefore, there is no such risk in shortening the day. Otherwise, the Lord wouldn’t have taught us this prayer.”

Q:”What about theological and philosophical implications of the Rapture? Why someone is taken and someone else left?”

A: “These are not treated here. They will be treated in other works, and some wise pastors will be able to answer this, by following the Scriptures”

 

8 – An unprecedented event

 

If most Christian living today will share this intention, and pray together for it, this will be an unprecedented even in the history of the world. If the rapture happened centuries ago, it would have likely remained unexplained and not testified everywhere. But nowadays, thanks to technologies and to the Gospel spread everywhere, it will be testified to people of all nations, and everyone will know what happened. Now, our hope is that some wise pastor, who spent his life in the hope of Jesus’ Return, will actively spread this prayer and this intention among other pastors and Christians, so that all of us may be reunited under the Lord’s prayer, and pray together, with full intention and understanding and without the usual countless distractions and desires:

 

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day the bread of tomorrow. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

 

Maranatha. Our Lord, come!

Edited by hoper
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hoper, I personally would never pray for the early return of Jesus Christ. I honestly believe that to be wrong. God is in complete control, and if I really believe that then YAHWEH has a plan and who dare think they know better that Almighty God?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who would be organizing this?

(Btw. The Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events.)

 

By what Scripture whould you use to say that they are two different events?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you disagree?

 

Yes I do. I understand Scripture in Matthew 24:29 that AFTER the tribulation Jesus returns.

 

There are four different views about this; Historic Premillennialism, Dispensational Premillennialism, Postmillennialism, and Amillennialism. Many solid Bible Believing Scholars hold to one of these views. I happen to be of the Historic Premillennialism belief personally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rapture of the church is when Jesus Christ is in the air and the trumpet calls all the dead in Christ to rise first and then all born-again believers to be caught up. All born-again believers will be safe with Jesus Christ.

 

The 2nd Coming is when Christ comes down to this earth -- stands on the Mt. of Olives -- reigns on earth for 1,000 yrs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the OP question -- if that event ever took place I wouldn't attend Because Scripture says that no one knows when that will happen. Nothing is going to prevent or encourage God's plan. That entire - world time of prayer wouldn't happen. Too many time zones to work with.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who would be organizing this?

(Btw. The Rapture and the Second Coming are two different events.)

 

I don't know, I hope that pastors from all over the world could spread this intention, starting from some first pioneers.

Even if, the term "pioneer" is not correct, this is a prayer that was done in the early Christianity (Maranatha, the very last prayer in the Bible), but then Catholics, with their extreme focus on this world, made it lost, and now nobody is praying this anymore.

Which is ironic, because these days a whole lot more Christians could be praying for this, but it's not happening, they are mostly now praying for worldly things, and some even wish that the Lord should return as late as possible (Luke 19:14).

So I hope in wise people to spread this. If you google "hastening the return of Jesus" you can find several articles and videos, from different pastors and confessions, that confirm that this is Scriptural. However, such fundamental information is lost in the sea of countless useless points, so very few few Christians are aware of this.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hoper, I personally would never pray for the early return of Jesus Christ. I honestly believe that to be wrong. God is in complete control, and if I really believe that then YAHWEH has a plan and who dare think they know better that Almighty God?

 

Just me, let's analyze some different, complementary concepts of 1) God knowing and predicting the future, and 2) the way He took His decision by taking into account the elect's action too.

 

(if you google "hastening the return of Jesus" you'll find the same logical (and scriptural) explanations )

 

Since you talk about the future, I hope you have familiarity with logical reasoning.

 

Premise: God created men with free will.

 

FIRST EXAMPLE

Imagine 2 possible timelines of the future, one in which a person (let's call her Martha) prays, and another in which she doesn't pray. And let's imagine that the prayer is about getting the courage to testify the Lord in a hostile country.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

TIMELINE 1

 

Event A: Martha prays for courage

 

Event B: The Lord, by knowing Martha's prayer and by considering the prayer according to His will, gives her the courage

 

Event C: Martha goes in a hostile country to testify the Lord

 

 

 

TIMELINE 2

 

Event A-2: Martha doesn't pray for courage

 

Event B-2: The Lord doesn't force the gift of courage upon Martha, by respecting her free will

 

Event C-2: Martha stays at home

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, the Lord knows the future. He knows from the very beginning if Martha will choose event A or event A-2 (and let's say that she decides A), so he knows that He will send her courage. But this doesn't mean that Martha's prayer wasn't important, indeed it was fundamental!

 

 

Now, imagine 2 possible different timelines in the history of the world.

 

SECOND EXAMPLE

 

TIMELINE 1 - what is predicted (the events are in order):

 

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

 

Event B: His disciples START to spread the Gospel in the whole world

 

Event C: His disciples prepare the bride (the Spiritual Church) by ardently desire the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord

 

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

 

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

 

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

 

Event G: The Gospel is finally spread all over the world, and all over the elects cry and shout to the Lord (Luke 18:1-8) for His return

 

Event H: The Lord has set the time of the End here (from the very beginning), by knowing that B, C and G would have happened and by taking into account them too.

 

Event I: Something else that may have happened if the Lord didn't cut short the days, but will never happen because the Lord knew that B, C and G will happen before.

 

Now the Lord, by knowing this timeline, have told us some things that will happen in the last days, like D, E and F that you can find forecasted in the Bible. It doesn't mean that when fixing H, he didn't take into account B, C and G, on the contrary, he gave importance to His people in cooperating in His salvation plan, and to their actions and prayers, and decided H by taking into account them too!

 

Now imagine another timeline (that luckily will not happen, because the Lord has predicted that the Timeline 1 will happen)

 

TIMELINE 2 - what could have happened if nobody cared about the Gospel (the events are in order):

 

Event A: Jesus preach the Gospel

 

Event B: Nobody care

 

Event C: The few that care, think that they'd be better off to hope the Lord to return very late

 

Event D: one of the events predicted, say, a war

 

Event E: one of the events predicted, say, a tribulation

 

Event F: one of the events predicted, ecc.

 

Event G: The Gospel is still almost unknown

 

Event H: The Lord could have set the time here if his Bride should have cooperated, but since nobody cared and nobody wanted His return, He delayed His return. So nothing happens here

 

Event I: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

 

Event J: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen

 

Event K: other events that in Timeline 1 wouldn't have happen, but in this timeline happen (etc.)

 

[...]

 

Event V: FInally someone wake up, understand the Good News of the Kingdom, spread it and pray "Come"

 

Event Z: The Lord by knowing the timeline, has set the date here (from the very beginning).

 

In timeline 2, More events happen, so more events would have been predicted if it was what the Lord forecasted. But luckily, we are in timeline 1, because from the beginning people started to spread the Gospel; by taking a quick look on Google by typing "Hastening the return of Jesus", looks like there are many pastors from different denominations (and non-denominational) who understood the Lord's prayer Peter and Revelation, and are teaching to hastening the Return.

 

You can find in one of those articles the same explanation as above, but I invested my time to make the schema for you in case it wasn't clear with just words, so now I'm 100% sure that it's impossible not to understand that simple, commonly accepted theological concept (that everyone take for granted with respect to all other prayers, like the prayer to send workers into the field).

 

 

 

The difference between timeline 1 and timeline 2 is made by the free will of men. And for God, men's free will is sacred, He respects it. He doesn't joke with us when he teach us the importance of the prayers, and when He puts a prayer such Maranatha at the very end of His book.

 

I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of someone trying to stop this prayer, but I'm having hard time understanding. I don't know what someone gains in trying to block this prayer. If the prayer is wrong, blocking it would have no effect anyway, so there would be nothing to gain.

 

If the prayer is correct, how sad someone will feel to have tried to block it, to discourage his siblings to make an action for hastening the Return of the Lord (that some elects will realize anyway), thus delaying it.

 

But there is an actual positive outcome from those trying to block it, and it is that thanks to their counterarguments, each point can be presented with more details. So I thank them for that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand your thinking. I personally think it is unnecessary and that YAHWEH has this all planned out.

 

Thanks for investing your time in understanding this! This is an awesome behavior from you because it's perfectly ok to disagree, but everybody should try to at least understand other points of view, and you invested your time in doing that. Great example :)

 

I understand your thinking too, even though I don't understand what someone would have to lose anyway from this prayer.

 

God bless you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hoper, not to condemn your efforts in the least, but for me I think it would be sinful, imo.

 

Don't worry about that justme, if anything this is certainly not sinful, I don't think that Peter and John were sinful when they wrote this in the BIble :)

 

 

Also, all these pastors writing in these blog and referring to the scriptures and to the Lord's prayer, aren't sinful either:

https://www.google.it/search?q=hastening+the+return+of+the+lord&oq=hastenin&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i60j69i65l3.3199j1j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I'd be more worried about making some prayer for worldly things, becuase definitely that is at a far higher risk to be sinful since Jesus said:

 

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

 

“‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]

but deliver us from the evil one."

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't worry about that justme, if anything this is certainly not sinful, I don't think that Peter and John were sinful when they wrote this in the BIble :)

 

 

Also, all these pastors writing in these blog and referring to the scriptures and to the Lord's prayer, aren't sinful either:

https://www.google.it/search?q=hastening+the+return+of+the+lord&oq=hastenin&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0j69i60j69i65l3.3199j1j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

I'd be more worried about making some prayer for worldly things, becuase definitely that is at a far higher risk to be sinful since Jesus said:

 

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

 

“‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]

but deliver us from the evil one."

 

Your takinh what I have said out of context,please don't do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we should leave the 'logical reasoning' out of this , because that's putting the Lord's returning on Our reasoning ability / level. God's ways are Not our ways.

 

Only God knows when He will return -- we are Not to try to figure out the timing. We Can pray for the strength to withstand persecution as it comes our way. The world conditions are going to get worse and worse -- we don't know at what point the Church will be taken out of it. Only that it Will be. We CAN pray 'Lord come quickly' -- and help us to be strong in You Until then.

 

There Is a place in Scripture -- somewhere -- that when everyone on earth has had a chance to hear the Gospel -- then the end will come. But what does That mean. The End. The Rapture? Only the non-believers will be here. After Christ has reigned for the 1,000 yrs ? The End? When this earth is destroyed and the New Heaven and Earth are here. Because that will be eternity.

 

So --maybe 'hastening the Lord's return' will be hastened by our reaching to every person We come in contact with and sharing Gospel unto salvation with them.

 

 

God's giving someone -- a missionary -- the gift of courage?! It's not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Unless you're referring to someone knowing they need to do 'something' and the person asks God for the strength to do it. And God answers their prayer. That reminds me of back in the Old Testament -- God has called Moses to lead His people out of Egypt. Moses says he doesn't have the necessary ability to lead the people. God gets a bit irritated with him. He will Give him what he needs. But Moses pleads with God -- so God gives him Aaron as his helper.

 

 

I also think that your concept of man's free will is a bit scewed. God's respecting man's free will?!

 

Okay -- I've read it but don't agree with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe we should leave the 'logical reasoning' out of this , because that's putting the Lord's returning on Our reasoning ability / level. God's ways are Not our ways.

 

I love it, I was using logical reasoning only to refute some positions that through human sentences like "since the Father knows everything, he has decided everything and it's useless to pray" , try to cancel the power of the Scriptures. (human reasonings, not scriptural, but even from a human standpoint it's logically flawed as I demonstrated above).

 

 

But I'd prefer to leave out logical reason and refer only to the Scriptures too!

 

"And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will will give justice to them, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” Luke (18, 1:8)

 

"Therefore…what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?" (2 Peter 3:11-12)

 

"And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

This, then, is how you should pray:

 

“‘Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,

your will be done,

on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,

as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]

but deliver us from the evil one"

 

He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. (Revelation, 22:20) (the very last prayer in the Bible!!!)

 

But those who don't hope the Lord to come quick, will never accept these Scriptures, and it's ok.

 

Thanks for reminding us to only use the Scriptures without complaining about them. I also agree that prayer must be done in addition to spreading the Gospel too.

Amen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

William,

thank you very much for your deep answer! And also for trying to understand better the point of view.

 

I think the question is not about God's omniscience but rather about His sovereignty here.

 

You are right, it's more about that. I think that the reasoning presented above with the multiple timelines, is one possible explanation of how the sovereignty would be preserved even if He accepts the prayers. Because "what he has already ordained from times past", He has ordained by also taking into account the prayers that He forecasted in the future.

 

I do not know about your eschatological position but I am an amillennialist

 

I think that the intention expressed in the thread starter can be shared regardless the eschatological position.

I don't have a strong position on this matter yet, but definitely, it makes more sense to me to think that the millennium is symbolic (not 999, not 1001, really? ). I'm recently landing toward a pre-tribulation Rapture, so what I'm praying for is to hurry that, as in Luke:

"pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man".

 

But even if someone doesn't believe in Rapture, could pray for the Second Coming of Jesus.

 

You can also look at this matter from another perspective. It was due to men action, that men have been thrown out of Eden. Now, it would make sense for men to ask to be admitted again!

Like in the prodigal son parable, the prodigal son could be humanity and his sad "adventure" outside Heaven. In this metaphor, humanity as the prodigal son has to say ""How many hired servants of my father'shave bread enough to spare, and I'm dying with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will tell him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight". Where that "I will get up and go", could be done through our prayers too. Indeed, it is surprising that in this parable it's mentioned sin against Heaven, it doesn't seem to fit the narration unless you see it from the perspective of the sin of humanity that made her loose Heaven.

 

This is another perspective if you want to look at a possible reason why the prayer may be powerful.

But, even if this doesn't sound convincing, I'd still make this prayer just because it's Biblical and commanded by Jesus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re - the millennium being real or symbolic -- looking at Revelation 20: 2 "He (an angel) seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years . He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be set free for a short time."

 

Vs 7 "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them for battle.

 

vs 9 "They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city He loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown . They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

vs 11 "Then I saw a great white thrown ......"

 

Re: the Jewish nation of Israel turning to Christ. -- looking at Daniel 9:20 - 27 vs 27 talks about one 'seven' and the middle of that time 3 1/2 yrs and after is the Great Tribulation time. God is not finished with the Jewish people -- we are now in the time of the Gentiles -- but there is a seven-year period of time yet in the future when God deals with the Jews once more. Revelation also talks about 144,000 Jews being sealed and going to the Jewish population especially. And, possibly anyone else who is willing to listen. That is found in Revelation 7 and 14 as well.

 

The Rapture, 2nd coming of Christ and the 1,000 earthly reign of Jesus Christ are all in Scripture.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't see how your efforts are controversial no matter how I look at them though

 

Awesome, me neither :)

 

And if you want, below are more hints from other pastors who share this intention, here they are.

 

Unfortunately, differently from early Christians, it seems that no pastor has yet been able to spread this intention widely through Churches and common Christians. Average Christians are overwhelmed by thousands of intentions (Matthew 6:7) and thus not aware of this.

 

http://learnbibleprophecy.blogspot.i...maranatha.html

 

http://www.versebyverseministry.org/....7QHYMEE5.dpbs

 

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/...ist-15204.html

 

http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com...ds.Return.html

 

http://christianteaching.org.uk/blog...#comment-32538

 

http://folkslisten.blogspot.it/2010/...-of-jesus.html

 

https://nathanaelflock.wordpress.com...y-of-the-lord/

 

http://quailandmanna.com/god-justice/

 

 

https://peteenns.com/why-jesus-hasnt...new-testament/

 

http://ifollowjesusnow.tk/hastening-ready-day-lord/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
William,

thank you very much for your deep answer! And also for trying to understand better the point of view.

 

 

 

You are right, it's more about that. I think that the reasoning presented above with the multiple timelines, is one possible explanation of how the sovereignty would be preserved even if He accepts the prayers. Because "what he has already ordained from times past", He has ordained by also taking into account the prayers that He forecasted in the future.

 

 

 

I think that the intention expressed in the thread starter can be shared regardless the eschatological position.

I don't have a strong position on this matter yet, but definitely, it makes more sense to me to think that the millennium is symbolic (not 999, not 1001, really? ). I'm recently landing toward a pre-tribulation Rapture, so what I'm praying for is to hurry that, as in Luke:

"pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man".

 

But even if someone doesn't believe in Rapture, could pray for the Second Coming of Jesus.

 

You can also look at this matter from another perspective. It was due to men action, that men have been thrown out of Eden. Now, it would make sense for men to ask to be admitted again!

Like in the prodigal son parable, the prodigal son could be humanity and his sad "adventure" outside Heaven. In this metaphor, humanity as the prodigal son has to say ""How many hired servants of my father'shave bread enough to spare, and I'm dying with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will tell him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight". Where that "I will get up and go", could be done through our prayers too. Indeed, it is surprising that in this parable it's mentioned sin against Heaven, it doesn't seem to fit the narration unless you see it from the perspective of the sin of humanity that made her loose Heaven.

 

This is another perspective if you want to look at a possible reason why the prayer may be powerful.

But, even if this doesn't sound convincing, I'd still make this prayer just because it's Biblical and commanded by Jesus.

 

 

@ hoper

 

Why does it make more sense to have the 1,000 yrs be symbolic. Especially considering the Revelation passage I shared.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@ hoper

 

Why does it make more sense to have the 1,000 yrs be symbolic. Especially considering the Revelation passage I shared.

 

Dear Sue D,

simply because in Revelation other things are symbolic. Are the beasts real beasts? No. Therefore, why other things shouldn't be symbolic?

 

And exactly 1000, if not symbolic, seems a made up number, I don't think that the Lord makes his complex decisions in order to obtain numbers that look beautiful to the human eye (999 or 1001 wouldn't look as beautiful), I think He based His decisions or more complex variables, so it's unlikely that the end result is such a round number. It is like to say: how likely it is that the human population would be exactly 8 billion at his return? Not 7999999, not 8000001, but exactly 8? It's unlikely, because this kind of numbers appeal human eyes, but not the Lord, the Lord is more concerned about events, prayers, intention, than rounded numbers.

 

Btw, I don't exclude that it could be literal! It could be literal! I admit that I don't know that for sure. And I don't think is even necessary to know it for sure.

 

I think this is a very hard topic.

 

However, the topic of Hastening His return is a very simple and lapalissian topic, and the prayer can be done regardless one's one eschatological idea on the millennium.

 

For instance, here is a pastor that, like you, believes in the millennium, and still preach with a loud voice, to pray for hastening the Last Day events, by referring to 3Peter 3:12, the Lord prayer, and Revelation:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...