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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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shuwb

Greetings!

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Hi all. I hope we can grow together in Messiah Yeshua. The Protestants corrected much when they first began, but there is still much more to correct. Hopefully we can reason together about what needs correcting, even if it is me that needs correcting :RpS_biggrin:

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Welcome.

 

I'm gald you're willing to accept corection. So to start with, the Presbyterians got it right. Well, that about wraps it up. Lol.

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Welcome.

 

I'm gald you're willing to accept corection. So to start with, the Presbyterians got it right. Well, that about wraps it up. Lol.

 

If you are sitting on the Catholic side of the fence, Presbyterians got it wrong. I'm not on either side. I'm in heavenly places dwelling above both .:RpS_lol:

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Hi all. I hope we can grow together in Messiah Yeshua. The Protestants corrected much when they first began, but there is still much more to correct. Hopefully we can reason together about what needs correcting, even if it is me that needs correcting :RpS_biggrin:

 

Welcome shuwb!

 

What are the things that you think still need correcting?

 

Thanks

Faber

 

 

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Welcome shuwb!

 

What are the things that you think still need correcting?

 

Thanks

Faber

 

 

Well, I don't want to get into a discussion of them in this welcome thread, but to name a few;

 

The restoration of the Sabbath, Feasts, and dietary laws

The restoration of the correct names for our Father and His Son

The restoration of pure monotheism

The restoration of the glory that belongs to Father YHWH

The restoration of the true Gospel

 

 

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Hello shuwb. You started with a rather brash statement. I am wondering why you think you have a lot of correcting to do with FOLLOWERS of Jesus Christ here? I sincerely hope you are here to join in the different posts that interest you. Frankly I don't believe I am interested in being corrected by someone brand new that has just made his first post. I suggest you take your time and get to know people before starting to correct them.

 

I don't believe in worshiping Yahweh on but just one day but all days. Sunday is when the church I belong to assemblies to worship God together. Dietary laws are no longer required for a FOLLOWER of Jesus Christ. I have the true GOSPEL and do not need correcting. You may use the name of Jesus Christ in any language you so desire, but I speak and write in English. I an not under the LAW, but I live by the LAW Jesus Christ gave and God Almighty.

 

I will not debate nor dialogue you on any of the points you listed. I will respect you and and I request the same from you..

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Hello shuwb. You started with a rather brash statement. I am wondering why you think you have a lot of correcting to do with FOLLOWERS of Jesus Christ here? I sincerely hope you are here to join in the different posts that interest you. Frankly I don't believe I am interested in being corrected by someone brand new that has just made his first post. I suggest you take your time and get to know people before starting to correct them.

 

I don't believe in worshiping Yahweh on but just one day but all days. Sunday is when the church I belong to assemblies to worship God together. Dietary laws are no longer required for a FOLLOWER of Jesus Christ. I have the true GOSPEL and do not need correcting. You may use the name of Jesus Christ in any language you so desire, but I speak and write in English. I an not under the LAW, but I live by the LAW Jesus Christ gave and God Almighty.

 

I will not debate nor dialogue you on any of the points you listed. I will respect you and and I request the same from you..

 

Sorry you feel that way, but so be it.

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I am with @justme regarding debating the various points you listed, but I would like to clarify something. You said,

The restoration of pure monotheism

Am I correct in taking this to mean that you do not hold to a Trinitarian view of God?

 

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Hi Shuwb, WELCOME TO CF :RpS_smile: I agree with others in this thread, you definitely wrote an interesting intro. If you don't mind me asking, what "other" religion do you follow?

 

Thanks!

 

--David

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I am with @justme regarding debating the various points you listed, but I would like to clarify something. You said,

 

Am I correct in taking this to mean that you do not hold to a Trinitarian view of God?

 

Correct.

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Hi Shuwb, WELCOME TO CF :RpS_smile: I agree with others in this thread, you definitely wrote an interesting intro. If you don't mind me asking, what "other" religion do you follow?

 

Thanks!

 

--David

 

I now call myself a Messianic Hebrew. I used to be a Christian until my church kicked me out, told me I was fallen from grace and turned me over to Satan for the destruction of my flesh all because I started keeping the Sabbath day holy out of love for my Heavenly Father. I went to worship with Seventh Day Adventists. While there, I learned about the Father's name (Yahweh) from an outside source. Even though Adventists teach that is His name in their SDA Encyclopedia, they refused to use it when reading Scripture. I then started worshiping with a Sacred Name group, but when I rejected the preexistence doctrine, I was told I am no longer a member of the Body of Messiah. I then started worshiping with Messianic Jews, but they were not very Torah observant, refused to use the Name and believed in the trinity. The Almighty finally directed me to several families that believe like me. We have a home fellowship. For me to call myself by any of the names of the groups I worshiped with would be to associate myself with their teachings. I had no choice but to rename myself. Since all the great men of faith from Abraham to Paul were all called Hebrews and since I believe in Messiah Yeshua as my Master and Savior, "Messianic Hebrew" fit well. I don't care if no one else in the world is called a Messianic Hebrew as long as YHWH and Yeshua know my heart.

 

BTW, I'm not sure if the verses at the end of your post were meant for me or if that is just part of your signature, but I try to live by them all. My "Greeting" here was done out of love in order to share my light in a gentle way. That is how I would want others to treat me (by sharing light). Obviously, some thought it "brash", but it wasn't meant to be. I'm just trying to be up front and honest with you all.

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Sorry you feel that way, but so be it.

 

Shuwb, I do not think there is a single person in the forum who does not believe in the Trinity. I see that Eric T brought it up, and not you. Do you intend to bring that up again?

 

I like the Holman Christian Standard Bible because as you mentioned that Bible uses YAHWEH where it should be correctly used. That Bible went out of print late last year, but some LifeWay Book stores and (Christian Book Distributors) CBD still has some. I find it very sad that many Bibles have deliberately made the intentional choice to not use the proper name for the LORD. In fact several Bibles the front introduction pages says that YAHWEH should be used but people are unfamiliar with it so they don't. That is beyond stupid IMO. So we both agree on this issue.

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Shuwb, I do not think there is a single person in the forum who does not believe in the Trinity. I see that Eric T brought it up, and not you. Do you intend to bring that up again?

Being in the minority does not affect me since I firmly believe I am correct and that my view aligns with Scripture. The trinity has already come up somewhat in the Arian forum.

 

I like the Holman Christian Standard Bible because as you mentioned that Bible uses YAHWEH where it should be correctly used. That Bible went out of print late last year, but some LifeWay Book stores and (Christian Book Distributors) CBD still has some. I find it very sad that many Bibles have deliberately made the intentional choice to not use the proper name for the LORD. In fact several Bibles the front introduction pages says that YAHWEH should be used but people are unfamiliar with it so they don't. That is beyond stupid IMO. So we both agree on this issue.

Several other versions use the name "Yahweh" as well. Even though Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge the correct name is "Yahweh", they continue to use Jehovah because the people are familiar with it. When YHWH shines the light of truth in one's eyes, we MUST embrace it or risk having less and less truth revealed to us. I'm glad we can agree on this issue (which also extends to the Son's name, "Jesus" vs "Yeshua").

 

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Usually excommunication follows quite a process. Were they not willing or were you not willing to be corrected?

They didn't even try to correct me. We had one meeting of the leadership and me. They gave me some verses that I understood differently. There was no process. They simply said I was no longer welcome and turned me over to Satan. I was a one year old believer at that time. It is by the grace of YHWH that I didn't just abandon my faith altogether at the total lack of love and concern I was shown.

 

Most heretics do. And this is what concerns me.

Most Christians believe they are correct as well and believe their view is Scriptural. Does that concern you as well? It doesn't concern me. It is normal. It is only through sincere dialogue where both parties share their views can unity come about. Kicking people out of the church or threatening them with loss of salvation is not going to help the situation.

 

If your church was not able to edify you nor are you willing to be corrected then I see nothing but trouble from you on this board.

As I said in my OP, I am open to correction, but I certainly will not be corrected by giving me verses where things are read into the text or the Hebrew and Greek are ignored or things are taken out of context.

 

Any words of encouragement?

Yes, I encourage everyone on this forum to not be so fearful of being deceived that you will not even hear what someone has to say. The Bereans first heard the message, then they compared it with Scripture to determine if the message/doctrine was true. They did not shut their ears in fear (or pride). If the Almighty did truly send a messenger to teach His people what He wanted them to know and they refused to listen, they would be grieving the Holy Spirit. So, again, I encourage you all to fear not, but prayerfully and studiously deal with the issues presented and allow the Holy Spirit to move in you to either accept or reject what any messenger has to say.

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The Nicene Creed is one of unity for the Christian churches. We do not believe the Nicene Creed because it says so, but like all essential creeds we believe them because they accurately convey scriptural truths.

 

I believe the scriptures do not support the creation of "Creeds".

 

I consider it both "adding to scriptures" and "Do not repeat words over and over in public."

 

But that's just me. Millions of people do it.

Edited by The Librarian
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Shuwb, What do you think of the JW Bible?

 

I don't like it. It is very stiff reading, doesn't flow nicely and they use the name "Jehovah" which they admit is incorrect.

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No, it doesn't concern me when people understand and side with orthodoxy. The Arian view for example has been dealt with by the Nicene Council. All denominations agree to central truths which are essential to the Christian faith. The Nicene Creed is one of unity for the Christian churches. We do not believe the Nicene Creed because it says so, but like all essential creeds we believe them because they accurately convey scriptural truths.

I believe it to be inaccurate, but that is a discussion for a different thread.

 

 

However, going from church to church and being kicked out or leaving shows a pattern of behavior that is not isolated. Am I correct to assume you have also been kicked out of other Christian forums? Look, you have a fresh start here and opportunity to become part of our community.

My “pattern of behavior” was forced upon me for the most part. I try to abide by Forum rules, but I have not seen any rules against discussing the trinity/deity/feasts/Sabbath/ Torah, etc., in a peaceful way. Am I missing something?

 

 

I can't help but read your posts and see the Pharisee in you. I hope this isn't taken as an attack but a moment of reflection. The Pharisees distorted the gospel and turned everything in it to do with "I, me and myself". That is, when they read the scriptures they turned it into works righteousness or performance based salvation. It was all about what the individual does or does not do instead of Christ. Not to mention the obvious which was the Bereans did not search with a motive of power. The Pharisees continually tried to establish themselves as the authority, again, the scriptures became all about "I, me and myself" rather than about Christ Jesus.

Your words here are part of the problem. You have now planted seeds in the minds of forum readers that I am to be viewed as a Pharisee from the get-go. That may not have been your intention, but that is the result. You might as well have just come out and said, “Shuwb is a Pharisaical legalist trying to be justified and saved by his law keeping. Beware of him.” That is far from the truth. Do you look at Yeshua or David as Pharisees too? They both loved the law and obeyed it, one perfectly and the other with some transgressions.

 

My word of encouragement to you is to let your guard down. Moderation is very keen on people that attempt to lay snares down for others. Have confidence in this group, but at the same time be meek and easily corrected. I realize it takes time to establish rapport in a new place. But if you're going to last more than a week I really do suggest you follow the rules and be open to edification. We welcome you if you have genuine inquiry, but if you're going to use topics and subjects in order to turn every post in rejecting the Trinity then you're not going to last long. Our moderators are really nice people, and they hate to ban anyone. Just for FYI, nobody wants to see you go.

 

I hope that we can work past these things to glorify God.

The church is in the spiritual condition they are because they let their guard down. As for following the rules, I can’t find any rules concerning discussing the trinity or deity issues. It seems it is permissible as long as I do it “decently and respectfully”.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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This whole board is designed and focused on the Christian Protestant faith: https://www.christforums.org/articles/51845-moderator-announcements

 

There are no places or sub-forums for JWs, Mormons, SDA, Oneness Pentecostals, and other cultist or heretical individuals to gather.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, that is perfectly true. This is a very Protestant Christian place and a wonderful tool for learning if learning is what one wants to do. We're not here to be convinced of beliefs we find heretical. We're here to build up each other in the One True Faith of which Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher. If one wants to learn about the beliefs we hold so dearly, there are a lot of people who would be perfectly happy to serve as instructors on matters of faith. One would be very wise to heed William's words ( he owns the site, after all and this site has proven a blessing to all who approach it in good faith).

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We're not here to be convinced of beliefs we find heretical. We're here to build up each other in the One True Faith of which Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher.

Thanks, brother!

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