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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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The Librarian

Hello - I'm a bible following liberal

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Welcome Librarian. You've made a rather different introduction. What makes you a liberal? Is your liberal status made by your Theology, or what would you say? Enjoy your getting to know us.

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Yes, please elaborate. Happy Thanksgiving, by the way!

 

In everything............................I repeat....In everything

 

Do unto others, just exactly like...you would wish them to treat you.

 

This means that seperate rules for woman, about what they should do, or how they should act.....is against the royal law.

This also applies to any class or group of people you can name.

 

Treat all these of "groups"

the same as you would wish

for them to treat you.

 

If anyone is on your "hate" list.....them too.

 

Any particular group of sinners on your list?

Them too. Honor them as you would wish them to honor you.

Respect their choices as you would wish them to respect yours.

Judge others just as you would want them to judge you as well.

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This means that seperate rules for woman, about what they should do, or how they should act.....is against the royal law.

 

God created us male and female and gave each gender distinct roles in serving him. For example, in marriage a husband is commanded to love and protect his wife and the wife is commanded to submit to her husband.

 

Any particular group of sinners on your list?

Them too. Honor them as you would wish them to honor you.

Respect their choices as you would wish them to respect yours.

 

We are not told to honor sinners but to love them. That means we should warn them of the consequences of their sins and show them how they can be forgiven. We must not respect another's choice if he chooses to disobey God.

 

You appear to be regarding the golden rule as the supreme command and using it as a basis for judging all other commands. The supreme law is to love God and all other commands must be interpreted in its light.

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You appear to be regarding the golden rule as the supreme command and using it as a basis for judging all other commands.

 

That is exactly what I am doing. Finally somebody gets it!

This one idea...is supported by all these passages.

If you claim some other "rule" is must be judged by ALL these first.

Let me support my stand, if I may:

 

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:10

 

The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.

Mark 12:31

 

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

1 Peter 3:8 |

 

No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.

1 Corinthians 10:24

 

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Galatians 6:2

 

Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

1 Thessalonians 5:11

 

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Galatians 5:14

 

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.

Philippians 2:3

 

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 7:12

 

Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Hebrews 13:1-2

 

Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.

Romans 15:2

 

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Romans 14:13

 

Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Galatians 6:10

 

Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Colossians 3:13

 

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

1 Peter 4:8

 

Learn to do right; seek justice.

Defend the oppressed.

Take up the cause of the fatherless;

plead the case of the widow.

Isaiah 1:17

 

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Romans 2:1

 

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 13:34

 

 

There are some "one off" commands that do not pass this test.

 

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"Bible following liberal" sounds like an oxymoron to me, but welcome to the forum.

 

See post #10 for more. You will hate me becasue I defend my liberal stand like the conservative I used to be.

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We are not told to honor sinners but to love them.

 

I said honor them just as YOU would wish to be honored.

If you do not wish me to honor you, then I won't. Your call.

If you wish to be scolded as a sinner, let met know. I will do that.

If you wish to be corrected...I will do that for you.

 

Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up.

Romans 15:2

 

( A few of my neighbors are less than perfect. Some are sinners)

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Good day and welcome, Librarian! I see you've got Anabaptist as your denomination. Would you be interested in telling us about your religious faith in more detail?

 

I grew up in Church of the Brethren....a church after 2 "left" splits off of quakers. No real bible there, and I was saved after reading Tracts that actually had scripture at age 30. A few years of conservative radio listening and a believer in the perfect scriptures and a young earth. But the Bible doesn't really proclaim a "young earth" directly. So I've changed my position on that so have never found a church to be comfortable in. Being raised left, and learned right, now I am middle. Except for social issues. I'm wacky left on social issues. But the scriptures are far right only in a few scattered places. Mostly, they are left wing in volume with a scattering of fire and brimstone sprinkled on top. I also have figured out answered prayer and my experiences give me insights as to why it does and doesn't "work". My relationship with God is through prayer and reading scripture.

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Is the age of the earth a criteria for finding a congregation to be comfortable in? If I understand correctly that is why you are having a hard time finding a congregation.

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There are some "one off" commands that do not pass this test.

But the scriptures are far right only in a few scattered places. Mostly, they are left wing in volume with a scattering of fire and brimstone sprinkled on top.

So, what is your view of scripture? It sounds like you believe that we should sort out which parts of scripture are God's word to us and the other parts are either not really God's word or are no longer to be considered normative for us.

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In everything............................I repeat....In everything

 

Do unto others, just exactly like...you would wish them to treat you.

 

This means that seperate rules for woman, about what they should do, or how they should act.....is against the royal law.

This also applies to any class or group of people you can name.

 

Treat all these of "groups"

the same as you would wish

for them to treat you.

 

If anyone is on your "hate" list.....them too.

 

Any particular group of sinners on your list?

Them too. Honor them as you would wish them to honor you.

Respect their choices as you would wish them to respect yours.

Judge others just as you would want them to judge you as well.

 

Well, if I were a drug addict or alcoholic or pedaphile, I sure wouldn't want people judging me for my sin. I would want them all to be just like you and love me and embrace me and encourage me to continue on in my life of drugs and drunkeness and harming children while being told that God really loves me.

 

I suppose by extension 'suicide prevention' hotlines are also a violation of this yardstick of love since we are failing to support them in the decisions that have made. We would want to be supported in all of our decisions, so the Church really needs 'Suicide Assistance Hotlines' so they don't have to die alone.

[end sarcasm]

 

 

On a more serious note, doing "good" is doing what will benefit the other person, not merely what will give them a brief warm-fuzzy feeling on the way to face an unchanging GOD. Sometimes it means we love the unlovely. Sometimes it means we point out their sin and call them to repent. Sometimes it means we suffer wrongs and forgive. Sometimes it means we offer encouragement.

 

Never Ever does it mean we lie to people and tell them that God loves sin because people don't want to hear what God says about the truth of a subject.

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Well, if I were a drug addict or alcoholic or pedaphile, I sure wouldn't want people judging me for my sin. I would want them all to be just like you and love me and embrace me and encourage me to continue on in my life of drugs and drunkeness and harming children while being told that God really loves me..

 

Likely what troubles such people is lack of love and understanding. Is that why pedaphiles flock to the church? Likely it is.

Drunks don't get up early enough for church to some extent, but they are there. Keep your eyes peeled for people to help.

Never fully trust your leadership with your children.

 

 

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Likely what troubles such people is lack of love and understanding. Is that why pedaphiles flock to the church? Likely it is.

 

Hi Librarian, I believe pedophiles "flock to the church" because children and teens congregate there, and because they are well aware of how easy it is to find their way into a position of authority and influence over them. The church is also a place where they know that they will be quickly trusted by parents, due in no small part to the simple fact that they refer to themselves as "Christians".

 

Drunks don't get up early enough for church to some extent, but they are there. Keep your eyes peeled for people to help.

 

This is true, but it's also the reason that many of our church's members/greeters are often ill-prepared to handle the visitor who seems totally out-of-place (because the appearance of such people happens so infrequently at Sunday morning service, especially in the "burbs", as you just pointed out).

 

Seeing that our members are prepared for the sporadic arrival of such people (so that they seem thrilled rather than put-out when it happens), is GREAT advice! Actually, one of the pastors from my former church does dinner/teaching lectures, special outreach events for other churches on various subjects concerning the church and Christian living, but he always shows up dressed up in costume so nobody knows who he is (posing as a grizzly motorcycle gang member, in leather with lots of tats, riding up on his Harley chopper). And once the meet & greet and dinner portions are over, he takes the podium and admits who he is, then he tells the congregation how they did with his "test". He's told me that over the years, only a handful of the congregations have gotten even a passing grade, much less a "B" or an "A", in regard to their "Christian" treatment of him as the odd, completely out-of-place stranger (weirdo) in their midst.

Doing this has been a wake-up call for many members and congregations, and its effects have been both positive and long-lasting with most :RpS_thumbup:

 

Never fully trust your leadership with your children.

 

This is extremely sad but excellent advice as well (though I believe it would be best to say that parents should never fully trust 'anyone' who they do not know extremely well with their children).

 

Thanks!

 

--David

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This is extremely sad but excellent advice as well (though I believe it would be best to say that parents should never fully trust 'anyone' who they do not know extremely well with their children).

 

Thanks!

 

--David

 

 

I say this becasue my father was a steeple-jack spending most of his career on church steeples. He saw what we all now know now was child abuse.

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