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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Just Mike

Should churches have someone carry a gun during services

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Just Mike

Is it now a time when churches should have protection during Worship, and other activities?

 

My onion, absolutely

 

 

justme!

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Innerfire89
Moderator

Hmmm, an onion told you this? Lol. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

Yes, think they should. I see it as the same principle as locking the church doors when no ones there so people don't just walk in and steal and vandalize. And I dont think it's any different from having a gun anywhere else.

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CDF47

I think licensed CPL holders should be allowed to carry firearms in church.

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DPMartin

there are many church goers that have rifles and pistols that could carry, it don't have to be concealed either. the show of verifies to others the potential for a response is there. its generally thought that back during the American revolution, it was required to carry in church.

 

its pointless for a shooter to shot at the armed, its the innocent and the unsuspecting and unarmed they seek. and if you think about it if people are squeamish about someone there at the ready for their protection then they are in the wrong country.

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Sue D.

Personally, no way should a church , of all places, allow guns on the premises. If a church is doing it's job -- teaching God's Word -- praying for each other, then just Maybe, a church-goer should be spiritually ready to meet his/her Maker -- no matter Where they are.

 

Maybe this could be seen as a congregation / person in a church being Willing to take a bullet in the process of Trying to witness to a gun wielding person.

 

We are at church to worship God -- is God's protection suitable to protect His people?! The people who were gunned down in the FBC in Texas -- they were immediately in presence of God -- that is -- providing they were born-again believers. Go to church and end up in heaven -- WoW -- what a privilege. Seriously.

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DPMartin
Personally, no way should a church , of all places, allow guns on the premises. If a church is doing it's job -- teaching God's Word -- praying for each other, then just Maybe, a church-goer should be spiritually ready to meet his/her Maker -- no matter Where they are.

 

Maybe this could be seen as a congregation / person in a church being Willing to take a bullet in the process of Trying to witness to a gun wielding person.

 

We are at church to worship God -- is God's protection suitable to protect His people?! The people who were gunned down in the FBC in Texas -- they were immediately in presence of God -- that is -- providing they were born-again believers. Go to church and end up in heaven -- WoW -- what a privilege. Seriously.

 

no seriously you go to church without fear for you life because? could that be Indian tribes don't have the ware with all to chase you out of their territory any more, how did that happen? or your not being nuked by so rouge nation because? could that be because the US is loaded to the teeth with an arsenal of weaponry placed through out the world?

 

 

this is a hostile world if you haven't noticed, and appropriate protection from hostilities is appropriate and necessary. the society you live in is changing whether you like it or not.

 

 

let me know when the next shooter that's out there for no real reason but for the excuse to shoot people and you can stand in front of him an tell him about Jesus. you don't get it, people just want to kill people and they look for reasons and opportunities to do so, that has nothing to do with God or your beliefs, other than it might be a reason or opportunity.

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Just Mike
Personally, no way should a church , of all places, allow guns on the premises. If a church is doing it's job -- teaching God's Word -- praying for each other, then just Maybe, a church-goer should be spiritually ready to meet his/her Maker -- no matter Where they are.

 

Maybe this could be seen as a congregation / person in a church being Willing to take a bullet in the process of Trying to witness to a gun wielding person.

 

We are at church to worship God -- is God's protection suitable to protect His people?! The people who were gunned down in the FBC in Texas -- they were immediately in presence of God -- that is -- providing they were born-again believers. Go to church and end up in heaven -- WoW -- what a privilege. Seriously.

 

Last night the FBI said we now live in a time when churches and people must look and plan that should such a thing happen in church where would you exit, drop, and protect yourself. Now as never before it is wise IMO to have a few men with arms hidden on their person in case of a satanic attack like what happened in Texas this last Sunday. It could happen at your church.

 

 

justme

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Innerfire89
Moderator

There was an invention not to long ago, it's an aluminium ball that can be placed on the end of a pistol so the frist shot doesn't penetrate the body but still packs some stopping power. I'm not sure how well that would work in a real life or death situation though, if the gun is in a holster you have put the attachment on and then shoot. In situation that's as full of stress like that I imagine I wouldnt even think to put it on.

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Faber
We are at church to worship God -- is God's protection suitable to protect His people?! The people who were gunned down in the FBC in Texas -- they were immediately in presence of God -- that is -- providing they were born-again believers. Go to church and end up in heaven -- WoW -- what a privilege. Seriously.

 

What about people who may not be Christians and decided to attend the service and were then gunned down.

 

Furthermore, what about people in the future who may think about going and getting involved in the church and decide not to for fear of their lives.

 

 

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Sue D.

 

Last night the FBI said we now live in a time when churches and people must look and plan that should such a thing happen in church where would you exit, drop, and protect yourself. Now as never before it is wise IMO to have a few men with arms hidden on their person in case of a satanic attack like what happened in Texas this last Sunday. It could happen at your church.

 

 

justme

 

 

Well, yes, but I'd just as soon think in terms of fire or something other than a person attacking with fire arms. A couple of plainclothes police outside the church -- just in case -- rather than fire arms inside the church.

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Sue D.

 

What about people who may not be Christians and decided to attend the service and were then gunned down.

 

Furthermore, what about people in the future who may think about going and getting involved in the church and decide not to for fear of their lives.

 

 

 

 

There are presently Christians in other countries who go to church who risk their lives to go.

 

After 9/11 there were Lots of people going to church -- all of a sudden they were appreciating freedom to go to churches -- found comfort doing so.

 

Those same unsaved people could go to any outdoor or indoor public activity and have the same thing happen. As happened at that concert.

 

In the early church in Acts -- people ran because of persecution and the Gospel spread.

 

I understand what you're saying -- and Maybe it's time people took church / God's Word more seriously. A drunk driver could run us down while going to HEB or a mall. How prepared for eternity are the people who are going to church or the mall or a rock concert. Or walking down the street to visit with a neighbor.

 

What are our churches teaching about salvation / eternal life. The authority of God's Word.

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Just Mike
There was an invention not to long ago, it's an aluminium ball that can be placed on the end of a pistol so the frist shot doesn't penetrate the body but still packs some stopping power. I'm not sure how well that would work in a real life or death situation though, if the gun is in a holster you have put the attachment on and then shoot. In situation that's as full of stress like that I imagine I wouldnt even think to put it on.

 

Utterly unbelievable. Who invented such a really odd idea? It sure was not someone who ever had to make a fast move to prevent someone from being shot. I would give this a 100 thumbs down on this one.

 

 

justme

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Just Mike

 

 

 

There are presently Christians in other countries who go to church who risk their lives to go.

 

After 9/11 there were Lots of people going to church -- all of a sudden they were appreciating freedom to go to churches -- found comfort doing so.

 

Those same unsaved people could go to any outdoor or indoor public activity and have the same thing happen. As happened at that concert.

 

In the early church in Acts -- people ran because of persecution and the Gospel spread.

 

I understand what you're saying -- and Maybe it's time people took church / God's Word more seriously. A drunk driver could run us down while going to HEB or a mall. How prepared for eternity are the people who are going to church or the mall or a rock concert. Or walking down the street to visit with a neighbor.

 

What are our churches teaching about salvation / eternal life. The authority of God's Word.

 

I understand your thinking, we will have to agree to disagree. I honestly believe its our responsibility to make sure people in our churches are safe and protected to the best of our ability.

 

 

justme

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theophilus
A couple of plainclothes police outside the church -- just in case -- rather than fire arms inside the church.

What good would that do if someone kept his gun hidden until he was inside the church?

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Just Mike

What good would that do if someone kept his gun hidden until he was inside the church?

 

Its sure better than being totally unprepared. I doubt many churches has a hero just accros the church willing to put his life at risk and shoot the killer like in Texas.

 

 

justme

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Innerfire89
Moderator

I'm not much of a gun expert, but aren't there less lethal types of ammunition? I know there's hard plastic bullets that come in 22 and 9mm. There's also bird shot for shot guns that would probably put a hurting on someone, although a shot gun in church is a bit much. And there's disinagrading bullets, even if those are as lethal at least the bullet will stop after hitting a hard target.

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CDF47
I'm not much of a gun expert, but aren't there less lethal types of ammunition? I know there's hard plastic bullets that come in 22 and 9mm. There's also bird shot for shot guns that would probably put a hurting on someone, although a shot gun in church is a bit much. And there's disinagrading bullets, even if those are as lethal at least the bullet will stop after hitting a hard target.

 

If there is a gunmen, you want to shoot to kill in order to stop him. Also, bird shot will kill a person.

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Innerfire89
Moderator

 

Why would you want it?

 

Here's a tip, never upholster your gun unless you're going to use it. And never point the gun at someone unless you're going to kill them.

 

Yes, there are various ammunitions. I think it was General Storm'n Norman that was behind the tumbling bullet fired from M-16s. The bullets aren't meant to kill, but wound. They tumble through the air and when they hit they break bones and run up the body etc. The logic behind it is, if you kill someone they are dead. If you wound someone the enemy has to care for them, they have to drag the wounded off the field, and the screaming and yelling destroys morale. The amount of people to tend and care for the wounded impairs the enemy.

 

Of course we are not in those kinds of combat situations, but point is they make various rounds which are meant to accomplish various objectives.

 

God bless,

William

 

Oh yeah, absolutely! Guns destroy whatever you shoot. But what I was thinking is if we can, we shouldn't use ammo that would definitely kill a person, but it doesn't really make much difference, especially if the attacker has to be shot more than once.

 

Now if I were to carry a gun myself it would be nothing less powerful than a 38 because that would stop an attacker, but if there were something that would stop them without such an amount of damage to their body I would go for that instead.

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DPMartin

 

Texas rocks.

 

From what I can see mainstream publications are advocating tighter gun control laws, and the Dems walked out of a silent prayer because 'they couldn't go through this again'. The left is blaming the NRA and Conservative Christians which are strong supporters for the right to bear arms. Ironically, it is Christians that were victims and a NRA member that stopped the attacker - a Liberal Atheist.

 

God bless,

William

 

yea your talking about Texas here, not Massachusetts, its a part of the bible belt and defiantly a NRA stronghold. the dems are always trying to tell others what to do with what others have. must be money in it somewhere.

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Sue D.

I'd be more inclined to shoot to stop the shooter --- not necessarily to kill -- just to stop him. Because I'm Also realizing that shooting to Kill Might be sending that person to hell for eternity. Shooting to Wound would put him/ her in a position to Possibly accept Christ as Savior. Jail and/ or prison ministry. Stop the shooter from killing any more than have already died at his hand, or prevent him from shooting in the 1st place.

 

My husband would be out to shoot to Kill -- not wound. He has both a hand gun and shot-gun / rifle in a locked gun case in our bedroom. I won't touch either of them.

 

Maybe - since 'this' Is a Christ forum -- we Could be praying for Would-be shooters to come to Christ so no one would be put in a position to Need to shoot them to protect others.

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Just Mike

More people are killed with a 22 than any other type of weapon. Its not the size of a bullet its where a person gets hit. A shot gun will most assuredly end an animals life or any thing else. Do not ever think a Be Be gun cant seriously hurt someone. David killed a giant with a sling shot...remember? Weapons are designed to do harm, to do physical harm to an animal or person.

 

When firing a 9 mm hand gun its takes practice to be able to even come pretty close to a target, its not something you just aim and shoot and hit what you aimed for. The noise alone hurts your ears, and in target shooting ear protection is really needed. A person is wise to take a gun safety course, and some states unless you take a gun safety course you can't get a hunting permit. Its always a serious thing to shoot any gun or rifle.

 

 

 

justme

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Innerfire89
Moderator
More people are killed with a 22 than any other type of weapon. Its not the size of a bullet its where a person gets hit. A shot gun will most assuredly end an animals life or any thing else. Do not ever think a Be Be gun cant seriously hurt someone. David killed a giant with a sling shot...remember? Weapons are designed to do harm, to do physical harm to an animal or person.

 

When firing a 9 mm hand gun its takes practice to be able to even come pretty close to a target, its not something you just aim and shoot and hit what you aimed for. The noise alone hurts your ears, and in target shooting ear protection is really needed. A person is wise to take a gun safety course, and some states unless you take a gun safety course you can't get a hunting permit. Its always a serious thing to shoot any gun or rifle.

 

 

 

justme

 

It's probably worse to get shot with a 22 than with other pistol rounds because it will bounce around inside the body.

 

Like I said, I'm not a gun expert, but I've shot a few. The best thing I learned was to hold the gun good and tight and to place your finger on the bottom of the trigger for an easier pull. And to practice keeping the gun steady when pulling the trigger, or there is much reason to even try aiming.

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Just Mike

Oh no! Look at the senator who was shot during a baseball game, the bullet spread out and he had internal damage in a number of places. Hollow point bullets are the ones that do not exit.

 

I HATE the very thought of ever thinking I might have to defend my wife, family or anyone against someone intent in harming us. But I would warn and then God help me.

 

I NEVER thought I would ever have this conversation, this is NOT the world I was brought up in. Oh God please be with my family and grandchildren, this is a different USA that I can hardly believe. This brings tears to my eyes as I type this. I am very sad and hurt.

 

I hate to kill the raccoons I trap, I trap them because they attack our pet outside cats as they go after the cat food. But it something that must be done. We had a drop off dog get in our chicken coop and kill several good chickens, I chased it down, it took 4 shot gun shells to kill it I would like to see a person drop off a dog and follow that person and call the Sheriff. These dogs become mean and dangerous and will eat just about anything. We have black bares near us, so far we have never had one on our property, but they can be real problems too.

 

justme

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Just Mike

 

Check out these rounds Justme. If you're going for the most deadly round:

 

 

God bless,

William

 

These bullets have to cost $$. I hate to even think what they would do.

 

 

justme

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Just Mike

William I have slugs for my 20 gage shot gun. I had an old electric stove, I shot a slug in the side of that stove and it went threw 4 layers of steel and each layer's hole got bigger and bigger. The final hole was about an 8'" hole. People her can deal hunt with slugs. I do NOT hunt as I have butchered enough animals in my time, and deer here after final butchering, especially does you might get 70 lbs of meat. Lots of work for so little deer meat, and we don't care for deer too much.

 

 

justme

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