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Elda

Social Security

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Elda

If there is a biblical basis for modern day Social Security in the United States, I'm having a difficult time finding it.

 

Should the government garnish the wages of workers to fund a system that seems doomed to failure?

 

Not only does the government tax workers at an ever increasing rate since the inception of social security, but they tax self-employed workers more (double?)... What about people who've never worked, never contributed, yet are "entitled" to a monthly "retirement benefit" when they reach the designated age; or receive benefits sooner if they meet certain "disability" requirements.

 

I believe in helping the needy (beginning at the family and local level). I'm also certain I disagree with a government "Ponzi scheme" that places an ever increasing and unsustainable burden on the youth of this nation.

 

There are people who have finished college with mountain of debt from education costs (perhaps they spent unwisely?); and who are now embarking on new careers, family, housing, etc. They will be among the workers who will shoulder the costs of funding this bubble that will collapse (if major changes are not made).

 

Is there a biblical basis for Social Security? Or is this one of man's inventions to socialize and redistribute the fruits of his labor...

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Sue D.

Wasn't Social Security originally taken from each person's paycheck in anticipation of our retirement? Each paycheck lists where the money earned is going. There's always been a difference between earned income and actual take-home pay.

 

Are you possibly getting Social Security mixed up with the welfare system?

 

Well -- I'm a stay and home mom who's never really had a paycheck. I get a percentage of my husband's S. S.

 

Many years ago a friend of ours had worked most of his adult life and gradually became partially disabled. But he couldn't collect disability because none of his problems was bad enough to qualify. Finally one area got bad enough to qualify him. He finally qualified for a liver transplant. That might be an extreme situation, but that's what his situation was. His wife also worked --his kids were older and already on their own.

 

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who abuse the system. There are those who claim back problems and are seen helping people move,etc. and appear to be perfectly healthy while they are receiving disability checks.

 

Same goes for food stamps. And presc. drugs.

 

'You name it' and people will find a way to abuse 'it'.

 

The New Testament church was to help those in need. The widows and orphans. Those who had no family. Everyone who Could was expected to do some kind of work to earn their 'keep'. And unfortunately there's a generation who are feeling 'entitled' to government assistance. And, yes,the government is corrupt -- it's run by corrupt people. We are All corrupt to some extent.

 

And, yes, there Are people who have a mound of college indebtedness by the time they graduate. It's take them years go work it off. And, yet, there are Also those who take classes and work at the same time. Some colleges won't allow a student to take the next semester until the previous one is paid for. My husband worked his way through 4 yrs old college and then 1 yr of seminary. Easy -- not at all. But it Can be done. And our younger son worked his way through any college he took.

 

The Biblical concept is to work so you can eat and provide for yourself and / or your family.

 

It's up to the individual -- sense of responsibility -- and the individual church. As well as the community being lived in.

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Elda

I'm talking about Social Security.

 

I have family members who collect Social Security. They worked all their lives and contributed. Some of them rely entirely on it, others saved for themselves and their Social Security is a supplement to their savings.

 

I also have family who collect SSDI, which is government support for certain people who qualify with some forms of disability. I have some female family members (who never worked, nor contributed themselves directly) who now collect a percent of their deceased spouse's "entitlement." So it seems there are a number of ways to collect from the Social Security system.

 

My concern, and original question was related to the fact that the entire system is "unfunded" and riding on the backs and shoulders of only those people who are in the workforce (those called earners).

 

I have acquaintances from college who do not work and they collect "welfare" because they manage to qualify for it. As far as I know, they haven't earned any salary and wages, nor contributed anything their entire lives. So there is a big difference between Social Security, SSDI, and Welfare.

 

I agree with the concept to work and provide for self and family; and for family and local community to support the needy.

 

I also agree with the "cash flow" approach to funding an education, rather than pile up huge debt.

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William
Staff

If I am right the greatest area of concern about SS is that the government keeps borrowing from it and not paying it back: https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrill.../#748777ad4947

 

SS has trouble when an entire generation has been murdered through abortion. An entire generation of people (57 million of them) could be positive contributors to society. The idea is that enough Americans will always be working so that other Americans are provided for after the age of retirement. However, we are reaching a point where more people are in the cart rather than pulling it. SS was ideally operating as an insurance which could pay for other Americans which needed retirement, medical and housing. If the statistic I am looking at is correct, those on disability now before the age of retirement only make up less than 10 percent. To collect, one needed to pay into it - as an insurance.

 

The troublesome mentality I see today is not limited to SS but can also be seen in Obamacare. With no prior medical conditions disqualifying a person, people are not treating health insurance as an insurance. They wait until they are diagnosed with an issue and then get insurance. Since they never paid into insurance and contributed they are a loss to insurance companies which drives up the cost of insurance of people that pay into it without any current health issues. Some would rather pay a no insurance penalty which is less than paying for health care insurance.

 

Is SS biblical? As far as taxation we are instructed to give to Caesar. Though our nation is different than biblical models of the day because we are a Republic that believes in no taxation without representation. We do to a degree have a voice. Ideally I think SS makes perfect sense, and I think there should be no guilt in collecting it. It is like me buying insurance for my car, and if I need to make a claim because of an accident - I should feel no negative conviction about it. But the way our society thinks today, as an example, I'll wait until I get into an accident and then sign up for insurance because insurance companies should not be able to disqualify me for a prior incident.

 

Insurance is supposed to exists before there are problems.

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.
If I am right the greatest area of concern about SS is that the government keeps borrowing from it and not paying it back: https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrill.../#748777ad4947

 

SS has trouble when an entire generation has been murdered through abortion. An entire generation of people 57 million of them could be positive contributors to society. The idea is that enough Americans will always be working so that other Americans are provided for after the age of retirement. However, we are reaching a point where more people are in the cart rather than pulling it. SS was ideally operating as an insurance which could pay for other Americans which needed retirement, medical and housing. If the statistic I am looking at is correct, those on disability now before the age of retirement only make up less than 10 percent. To collect, one needed to pay into it - as an insurance.

 

The troublesome mentality I see today is not limited to SS but can also be seen in Obamacare. With no prior medical conditions disqualifying a person, people are not treating health insurance as an insurance. They wait until they are diagnosed with an issue and then get insurance. Since they never paid into insurance and contributed they are a loss to insurance companies which drives up the cost of insurance of people that pay into it without any current health issues. Some would rather pay a no insurance penalty which is less than paying for health care insurance.

 

Is SS biblical? As far as taxation we are instructed to give to Caesar. Though our nation is different than biblical models of the day because we are a Republic that believes in no taxation without representation. We do to a degree have a voice. Ideally I think SS makes perfect sense, and I think there should be no guilt in collecting it. It is like me buying insurance for my car, and if I need to make a claim because of an accident - I should feel no negative conviction about it. But the way our society thinks today, as an example, I'll wait until I get into an accident and then sign up for insurance because insurance companies should not be able to disqualify me for a prior incident.

 

Insurance is supposed to exists before there are problems.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

You were doing Great and then you brought up Obamacare. That's probably the Worse mess ever voted in. The American public was told to "'just vote it in and Then we'll see what it's about" -- worse possible advice ever given and taken.

 

I'm not trying to derail -- believe me.

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William
Staff

 

 

You were doing Great and then you brought up Obamacare. That's probably the Worse mess ever voted in. The American public was told to "'just vote it in and Then we'll see what it's about" -- worse possible advice ever given and taken.

 

I'm not trying to derail -- believe me.

 

I was merely emphasizing the "entitlement" mentality which is a social program buster. The OP expressed an issue with people that did not pay into but are able to or want to collect. I think social programs such as welfare are being treated long term when they ought to be a short term solution.

 

I have acquaintances from college who do not work and they collect "welfare" because they manage to qualify for it. As far as I know, they haven't earned any salary and wages, nor contributed anything their entire lives. So there is a big difference between Social Security, SSDI, and Welfare.

 

Perhaps they "think" they should be entitled to collect when never having contributed? Social Security, Health Insurance, and even Auto Insurance were never supposed to work this way.

 

As far as Obamacare, I'm glad Trump is kicking out the crutches from under it. Health insurance companies recorded double the profits (amazing what happens when everyone is forced to pay into it). At the same time the government is using tax payer money to pay subsidies to them. Trump is stopping the subsidy payments which should expose flaws in Obamacare and allow it to collapse under its own weight.

 

The difference between SS and other programs is that it is claimed that a couple of trillion in a trust fund exists which citizens paid into. That money is not accounted for. Where did it go?

 

God bless,

William

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Sue D.

@ William -- welfare Should be only short term. As of a few years ago -- no doubt longer ago than that -- it didn't pay people To work -- welfare offered / offers too much incentives to stay in it. People are getting paid to stay home. And the abuse in the system is horrible. So - I'm agreeing with you.

 

 

Pres. Trump is Trying to fulfill his campaign promises -- he Needs to kick it -- whatever it takes to remake it into something Good.

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Elda

Any way you look at it, the accounting doesn't add up in order for the "earners" to be able to continue to "fund" the ever increasing number of "non-earners" and bonafide retirees. More emphasis is required on private savings and personal accountability. Get more people earning for themselves and saving for their own retirement, then the burden on taxpayer funded "entitlement programs" will taper off over time. However we may have reached a point of no return. Citizens should demand that "entitlement programs" be part of the budget rather than sitting out there on an island in "unfunded" territory.

 

Ninety-nine months of welfare reminds me of a song they used to sing on the bus trips back home from the away games...

 

My biggest concern is the burden on young wage earners and how the unfunded liabilities racked up by previous political generations will affect their pocket books and "quality of life" as they age... It's a growing problem with each new generation. The other concern it that money will run out for the people who need it the most, who are in retirement with no savings, or out of work with no where to turn, and perhaps most importantly, the people who have no means nor ability to provide for themselves.

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Sue D.
Any way you look at it, the accounting doesn't add up in order for the "earners" to be able to continue to "fund" the ever increasing number of "non-earners" and bonafide retirees. More emphasis is required on private savings and personal accountability. Get more people earning for themselves and saving for their own retirement, then the burden on taxpayer funded "entitlement programs" will taper off over time. However we may have reached a point of no return. Citizens should demand that "entitlement programs" be part of the budget rather than sitting out there on an island in "unfunded" territory.

 

Ninety-nine months of welfare reminds me of a song they used to sing on the bus trips back home from the away games...

 

My biggest concern is the burden on young wage earners and how the unfunded liabilities racked up by previous political generations will affect their pocket books and "quality of life" as they age... It's a growing problem with each new generation. The other concern it that money will run out for the people who need it the most, who are in retirement with no savings, or out of work with no where to turn, and perhaps most importantly, the people who have no means nor ability to provide for themselves.

 

 

 

Isn't that where a 'money-less' Society would come from? Eventually money will have little if any value -- so bartering comes to be a way of life. " I'll be willing to mow your lawn in exchange for your being willing to fix my leaky faucet because you have the plumbing knowledge that I don't have." Or my chickens are laying pretty good so I'll exchange eggs for veggies from your garden -- it would be really nice if the person who's garden is doing Great to volunteer veggies to the neighbor and the neighbor would volunteer some of her chicken eggs in payment for the veggies.

 

If you're a Star Trek person -- there's an old episode based on a society where people who reach the age of 60 turn themselves in to the government. They are euphenized because after That they were developing ailments and were no longer considered 'cost efficient' / able to work and therefore not profitable to Society.

 

There's yet Another group that's looking towards aborting babies who are 'in process' and ultrasounds show deformities / conditions which would be 'too costly' to raise the baby and probably wouldn't become productive citizens. Then again, that's happening Now in some cases. There are already thousands of normal, healthy babies who are purposely aborted simply because they are 'oops' babies. But this is a whole nuther subject. And I'm not trying to derail.

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