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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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William

Does the Doctrine of the Trinity Matter?

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However, if you have already decided that you don't accept it, you should stop arguing about it.

 

So, there.

One prime example of the nasty spirit I see on this forum.

Why is that.

Can't you guys just accept the fact that things need to be backed up with scripture?

 

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Look at Genesis 1:26 as the first mention of the trinity -- "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image in Our likeness ....."

 

Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,......"

 

John 17:1 "After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed : Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you..... Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. "

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If you are interested in why the doctrine of the Trinity is an essential, non-optional doctrine for the Christian faith, there is plenty of evidence. There are also many here who will help to explain it.

 

 

As noted, Moses, Abraham, Job and millions of others who died before Jesus was born, managed to gain God's favor with no church created doctrine of a "Trinity."

But I'm not saying it's harmful. It's a useful teaching tool even though it's not so important that God included the teaching term inside of scripture.

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You can find Trinitarian references throughout Scripture and the early Church Confessions ( I refer you especially to the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed). If one is a Christian, one is a Trinitarian. Here are the Scriptural references: http://www.dtl.org/trinity/study/scriptural.htm. The Bible you referenced, by the way, was collected and preserved by a Trinitarian Church. You're Welcome.

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We have one God, but he is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.

 

Does this mean that God is now only manifesting Himself as the Holy Spirit?

 

 

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Since I am lazy and a sucker for Reftagger, I'm copying the article here so I can quickly look up the scriptures.

 

Scriptural Basis for the Doctrine of the Trinity

 

By Mike Ediger

 

ONE GOD - THREE PERSONS

 

ONE GOD - Deut 4:35; 6:4; Isa 43:10; 1 Tim 2:5.

 

The FATHER is GOD - John 17:1-3; 1Cor 8:6; 2Cor 1:3; Gal 1:1; Phil 2:11; Col 1:3; 1Peter 1:2.

 

The SON is GOD - Isa 9:6; John 1:1-18; 5:18; 8:58; 20:28; Rom 9:5; Col 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:8-12; 2Peter 1:1.

 

The HOLY SPIRIT is GOD - Acts 5:3-4; 2Cor 3:17-18. Implied in - Mark 3:29; John 15:26; 1Cor 6:19-20; Heb 9:14. "Spirit of God" - Gen 1:2; Gen 31:3; Num 24:2; 1Sam 19:20; 2Chr 24:20; Job 27:3; Isa 61:1; Ezek 11:24; Matt 3:16;12:28; John 4:24; Rom 8:14; 1Cor 7:40; Eph 4:30.

 

Although the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible, the doctrine or the Trinity is plainly taught in Scripture, as evidenced by the passages listed below:

 

Old Testament

 

Strongly implied - Gen 1:1-3; 12:7 (cf. Col 1:15-17; Job 33:4); Isa 48:12-16.

 

Elohim (plural) - Gen 1:26; 11:7. The Trinity is implied in the word

 

Other indications found in - Gen 48:15-16; Exod 31:3; Num 11:25; Judg 3:10; Isa 6:8; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1.

 

New Testament

 

Clearly taught - Matt 3:16-17; 28:19; Luke 1:35; John 3:6-16; 14:16-17,23-26; 15:26; 16:13-15; Acts 2:32-33; 5:29-32; Rom 8:16-17,26ff; 1Cor 12:4-7; 2Cor 1:21-22; 3:14; Eph 1:1-14; 2:17-22; 3:16-19; 4:4-6; Col 1:3-8; 1Thes 1:2-5; 2Thes 2:13-14; Heb 9:14; 1Peter 1:2; 1John 3:21-24; Jude 20-21.

 

The Trinity is implied in the word "Godhead" (KJV): Acts 17:29; Rom 1:20; Col 2:9.

 

Other texts support the doctrine of the Trinity:

 

In Isa 63:7-11, the Trinity is seen in the reference to

 

The Lord who is the God of Israel was their Savior (Is 63:7-8).

 

The Angel of His Presence saved them (Is 63:9).

 

The Holy Spirit was grieved at their rebellion and was within them (Is 63:10-11).

 

The seraphim's song in Isaiah 6:3 and the angelic chorus in Revelation 4:8 both containing the phrase, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord" seems to be a reference to the triune nature of God.

 

The Three-fold Benediction of Numbers 6:24-26 and the similar Apostolic Benediction of 2Corinthians 13:14 also seems to indicate the triune nature of God.

 

Those texts which clearly show a distinction between the three Persons of the Godhead (Father/ Son/ Holy Spirit) support the doctrine of the Trinity. Such passages include: Matt 3:16-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:32-34; John 14:1-31;15:26;16:7-14; 1Cor 12:4-6; 2Cor 13:14; Eph 1:3-14; 4:4-6; 5:18-20; 2Thes 2:13-14; 1Peter 1:2; Jude 20-21.

 

While the word "trinity" is not found in the Scriptures, it is quite clear from the foregoing, that the Bible does, in fact, teach the doctrine of the Trinity. An honest appraisal of the Scripture texts listed above should lead to no other conclusion.

 

Scripture references from: The New King James Version. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1982, unless otherwise indicated.

Edited by Eric T.
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If you mean your previous post then it does work. After creating a post it often takes refreshing the screen.

Thanks, William, now I see that the links are working. Before I asked about it, I thought I had refreshed the screen a couple of times, but for some reason it didn't seem to work.

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The way I understand the Trinity, it is like a user holding a smartphone: The user is Heavenly Father; the smartphone (hardware/OS) is the universe; and the apps are people, one of which is Christ; and the Spirit is what syncs us together.

 

When people don't understand the Trinity and ask about it, I'm reminded of when the internet came about. We didn't really know what the internet was until we starting using it.

 

I agree that one doesn't need to believe in the Trinity to be saved, because salvation is available even to the simple. Salvation is really about a transformation of the soul.

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Why don't we start with the Early Church and see what they were taught, before heading into a debate, that I'm sure began after that. Were the 3000 people who came to Christ saved because they understood the idea behind the Trinity or because after Petter told them that they had cruesified the Son of God, they said.

 

Acts 2:37 - Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

 

Then they listened to Peters word

 

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

I would say that in order to understand what a thing is and what works you should return to where it started and ask of yourself, what was it that they knew when the gave up their old lives and were born again.

 

 

 

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The way I understand the Trinity, it is like a user holding a smartphone: The user is Heavenly Father; the smartphone (hardware/OS) is the universe; and the apps are people, one of which is Christ; and the Spirit is what syncs us together.

 

I'm afraid I think this understanding is not very helpful, and it seems to suggest that the second person is just another person, rather than "Very God of very God" as the Nicene Creed puts it.

When people don't understand the Trinity and ask about it, I'm reminded of when the internet came about. We didn't really know what the internet was until we starting using it.

 

It is true that a fuller understanding of the Trinity didn't come about until the Church had time to work on it, as the emergence of various heresies gave opportunity and need.

 

I agree that one doesn't need to believe in the Trinity to be saved, because salvation is available even to the simple. Salvation is really about a transformation of the soul.

 

This is true, however it is also true that a good understanding of the Trinity is very important to all Christians as they develop in their knowledge of God. If you want to appreciate who God is and how we have been saved, the doctrine of the Trinity is necessary.

 

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If our salvation was based on our ability to understand deep theological points, then we'd all be lost. Thank God that He is so merciful and calls us to a relationship with Jesus Christ. Indeed, a relationship is what God really wants. That being said, I believe these verses sum it up nicely: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." Matt. 28:19,20.

 

But even greater evidence is found in the NKJV and King James versions: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7. Sad that the newer translations butcher this one by removing that most important part of the verse. I think it's also worth mentioning that the word "one" is not a quantitative expression, rather it's used in a relational sense, as in perfect harmony and unity. God bless!

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I'm afraid I think this understanding is not very helpful, and it seems to suggest that the second person is just another person, rather than "Very God of very God" as the Nicene Creed puts it.

 

Yeah, it's not the most exact. But then again, isn't the second person both True User and True App? I tried to come up with an analogy where it is understood that Heavenly Father is outside the system, but effectively controls the system. Jesus is the app of whom the Father approves.

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God is the fire. Jesus is the light that illuminates those that sit within the house and draws us closer to the flame and the Holy spirit is the warmth, the rich glow and the sweet smell that comforts us with the understanding that the Flame is eternal, The light is ever shining and that which they represent is available to us if we just honor them for being that which they are and having shown themselves to us when they needn't have.

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Look at Genesis 1:26 as the first mention of the trinity -- "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image in Our likeness ....."

 

Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,......"

 

John 17:1 "After Jesus said this, He looked toward heaven and prayed : Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you..... Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. "

 

You missed out:

”And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

 

 

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The very first thing a child learns is that Jesus came as a baby, That Mary gave birth to Jesus, and God sent Jesus because He loves them. As that child grows they are taught that Mary baby came from God and God put baby Jesus in Mary/

 

Sunday School is where small children learn about the Father God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. As children mature they assimilate more Theology. If a person old enough to more fully grasp Scripture then they can more fully the concept of the Holy Spirit.

 

Is it essential for people to have a basic knowledge of the Holy Spirit? Yes.

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You missed out:

”And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

 

 

 

 

Yes, that Is another applicable passage :) Thanks for sharing it.

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Sometimes people are almost afraid of the word 'doctrine' -- what the Bible 'teaches' sounds So Complicated. After all -- people spend Years in a Bible college doing their learning. So 'we' tend to simply listen to what 'they' are saying instead of delving in ourselves. But spending years in a Bible college isn't necessary to learn about God's Word. Each one of us can pick up our Bible and read and read and read. With No test involved. Our individual reading pays off when we get into a conversation with someone and we get to share with them. We could say ''hey, I was just reading about that yesterday or this morning and this is what I learned."

 

The trinity Does matter because 'it' makes our salvation possible. :)

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Theology is the study of God. Doctrine is the system of the study of the Bible. Reading and studding alone and not belonging to a Church , where learning about the Bible takes place, people come to some very wrong conclusions.

 

I believe unless a person is involved with a body of believers that are soild Bible believing Christians, they become great converts for the cults.

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The doctrine of the Trinity is from the Catholic Church who as you know have SCORES of things unbiblical. This is what I’ve come to understand and it makes a whole lot more sense than viewing God as a triple-headed being.

 

1-The most High God is the God of the Old Testament.

 

2- Jesus is the Son of the most High God.

 

3. The most high God has given all authority to the Son.

 

4. The apostles call Jesus THEIR God because he has been given all authority.

 

There is a long long 5 hour debate about this between a trinitarian and a person named Chris Lasala. You can find it by clicking the link below.

 

 

 

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James 1:3 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

Matthew 4:1

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

 

So the question is, if Jesus is the most high God, how was he tempted in the wilderness?

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Don’t let anybody quote to you 1 John 5:7 where it says there are three that bear witness in Heaven and these three are one. I used to believe the trinity like all these people then I watched a debate and found out that that verse was not part of the original Canon it was added in AGAIN by the CATHOLIC Church who is notorious for this kind of stuff.

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The doctrine of the Trinity is from the Catholic Church who as you know have SCORES of things unbiblical. This is what I’ve come to understand and it makes a whole lot more sense than viewing God as a triple-headed being.

 

1-The most High God is the God of the Old Testament.

 

2- Jesus is the Son of the most High God.

 

3. The most high God has given all authority to the Son.

 

4. The apostles call Jesus THEIR God because he has been given all authority.

 

There is a long long 5 hour debate about this between a trinitarian and a person named Chris Lasala. You can find it by clicking the link below.

 

 

 

So am I reading you correctly ypu do not believe in the Trinity? If so which one do you not believe in, the Father, Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit?

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James 1:3 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

Matthew 4:1

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

 

So the question is, if Jesus is the most high God, how was he tempted in the wilderness?

 

God (theos), in James 1:13, refers to the Father.

 

 

 

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