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Welcome to SovereignGraceSingles.com. Where Reformed Faith and Romance Come Together! We are the only Christian dating website for Christian Singles in the Reformed Faith worldwide. Our focus is to bring together Christian singles of all ages. Reformed single Christian men and women who wish to meet other Reformed Christian singles for spiritually, like-minded, loving relationships.

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Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” - Genesis 2:18

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Meet Like Minded Believers Can two walk together except they be agreed? - Amos 3:3

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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.

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BenReilly

The crux of the matter...

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BenReilly

Hello,

 

Seven being the perfect number I have seven questions for you to ponder.

 

1. Why did God create humans?

2. What is the purpose of a human?

3. Why did sacrifice of animals atone for sin?

4. How does Jesus' sacrifice wipe all sin from a person?

5. How does Jesus dying once cover the sins of all humans who believe in him?

6. When the bible says, "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life" what is the exact definition of "believe"?

7. What is the exact definition of the word "worship"?

 

Any answers and discussion welcome.

 

Thanks,

Ben.

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theophilus
1. Why did God create humans?

2. What is the purpose of a human?

 

Everything God does is for his glory. Our purpose is to glorify him.

 

3. Why did sacrifice of animals atone for sin?

 

It didn't atone for sin. It was only a picture of the sacrifice Jesus Christ would make. Offering animal sacrifices was a way of expressing faith that God would take away sins by the perfect sacrifice.

 

4. How does Jesus' sacrifice wipe all sin from a person?

5. How does Jesus dying once cover the sins of all humans who believe in him?

 

Sin can be atoned for by the shedding of the blood of a perfect sacrifice.

 

6. When the bible says, "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life" what is the exact definition of "believe"?

 

It means to acknowledge your sins, repent of them, and trust in Jesus for salvation.

 

7. What is the exact definition of the word "worship"?

 

I means to acknowledge God's supremacy in all areas of our lives. I believe it is summed up in 1 Corinthians 10:31, "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

 

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BenReilly

Hi Theophilus,

 

Thanks for you answers and your time :)

 

Everything God does is for his glory. Our purpose is to glorify him.

 

What does it mean to glorify God / why does God need to be glorified?

 

It didn't atone for sin. It was only a picture of the sacrifice Jesus Christ would make. Offering animal sacrifices was a way of expressing faith that God would take away sins by the perfect sacrifice.

 

Did the people back then know that it was a parallel to the perfect sacrifice to come, or did they have another reason of their own for doing it?

 

Sin can be atoned for by the shedding of the blood of a perfect sacrifice.

 

Why?

 

It means to acknowledge your sins, repent of them, and trust in Jesus for salvation.

 

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that simply believing in Christ is enough. Personally I share your view here :)

 

I means to acknowledge God's supremacy in all areas of our lives. I believe it is summed up in 1 Corinthians 10:31, "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

 

I too came to similar conclusion :)

 

- Ben

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theophilus
What does it mean to glorify God / why does God need to be glorified?

 

It means to acknowledge that all that everything exists to serve God's purposes and desires and not our own. I don't know if God needs to be glorified but anyone who is in a right relationship witn him will want to glorify him.

 

Did the people back then know that it was a parallel to the perfect sacrifice to come, or did they have another reason of their own for doing it?

 

There is no way to know how much the people understood. Probably most of them offered the sacrifices simply because God had commanded them.

 

Why?

 

I don't know how a blood sacrifice atones for sin. I only know that the Bible says that it does.

 

 

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jud50

 

1. Why did God create humans?

For His Glory

 

2. What is the purpose of a human?

To Glorify God through, being fruitful and multiplying, subduing creation, and ruling/leading creation.

 

3. Why did sacrifice of animals atone for sin?

It didn’t. It was an example of what was to come.

 

4. How does Jesus' sacrifice wipe all sin from a person?

Propitiation of God’s wrath through the great exchange and Imputation of righteousness

 

 

 

5. How does Jesus dying once cover the sins of all humans who believe in him?

Perfect sinless sacrifice by an eternal perfect high priest in the Order of Melchizedek.

 

6. When the bible says, "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life" what is the exact definition of "believe"?

 

“that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

 

 

7. What is the exact definition of the word "worship"?

Hebrew

 

שָׁחָה

 

shâchâh

 

shaw-khaw'

 

A primitive root; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

 

Greek

 

προσκυνέω

 

proskuneō

 

pros-koo-neh'-o

 

From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.

 

 

 

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BenReilly

Hi Guys and Gals,

 

Thanks for your answers.

 

1. Why did God create humans?

A. For his glory.

Problem: this is very vague and in my opinion God isn't vague. If he created humans he did so for exact reasons. What are the exact reasons?

 

2. What is the purpose of a human?

A. To glorify God.

Problem: We have too many attributes for simply glorifying God. If man's purpose was only that, then he could have made us perfectly spherical, rolling around on a flat plane - but he didn't.

 

3. Why did sacrifice of animals atone for sin?

A. It was an example of what was to come.

Problem: It was only an example of what was to come in hindsight after Jesus arrived. These people carried out animal sacrifice for a long time before Jesus arrived - it had definite meaning to them. So too did pagan nations and also Islamic ones then. People forget that these sacrifices weren't just burned up. They were given to the community as food. So a sacrifice was also an offering to the community. A good-will gesture. I believe this is a far better explanation as it's practical. This idea of animal sacrifice being, "an example of what was to come" allows you to miss so much of the picture.

 

4. How does Jesus' sacrifice wipe all sin from a person?

A. Propitiation of God’s wrath through the great exchange and Imputation of righteousness.

Problem: Doesn't answer the question. "The Great Exchange". I.e. Postulate. In other words, "because the bible says so". Again, if God did this there must be an exact reason for it that is comprehensible. Didn't expect an answer to that one as even old Andrew Murray himself can't answer it in his book The power of the blood of Christ lol.

 

5. How does Jesus dying once cover the sins of all humans who believe in him?

A. Perfect sinless sacrifice by an eternal perfect high priest in the Order of Melchizedek.

Problem: Again, this is a postulate. "Because the bible says so" isn't an answer.

 

6. When the bible says, "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life" what is the exact definition of "believe"?

A. “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

Problem: Belief in Jesus rising for the dead is what gets you into heaven? A belief is an idea, an arrangement of neurons in your brain. How can an idea get you into heaven? You could be the most absolute useless person on the planet but because you have an idea in your head you get to go to heaven. This makes no sense. What makes more sense is believing in what Jesus taught and applying it. This is hard to do as Jesus was a radical. I find lots of Christians have the opinion just believing Jesus existed is the key... but this is a scapegoat. They can't be bothered being Christ-like, so they take the easy option. "I'll put my hand up in Church... woo hoo I'm saved!" total nonsense.

 

7. What is the exact definition of the word "worship"?

A. Couple of ideas here - It means to acknowledge God's supremacy in all areas of our lives. Also - prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

Problem: I'll accept that one.

 

******

 

What I've written sounds harsh but bare with me.. When I read the bible I had a few questions in mind. Why did God create humans? What is the purpose of a human? How can a man being sacrificed cover sin? I didn't get answers to these questions.

 

It's important to understand what a postulate is. It's a thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief. In other words it's an explanation not derived from any other idea. Doesn't mean it's useless, Newton's 3 laws of motion are postulates. But! Later Einstein then showed a more fundamental derivation of Newton's laws, more accurate to reality ! Seek and ye shall find!

 

When I ask, why did God create humans and I hear, "to glorify God" this is a postulate in that the bible says this and that's the end. But it's not the end.

 

Always remember, knock and it shall be opened to you. Ask and you will receive.

 

It's ok to question all these things, because it's only through questioning it that you get the real answers. Some people get hung-up on the idea that believing every word of the bible as fact is what makes them a 'good' Christian, but it's not. You have to understand it from the ground up to really 'believe' it. And by stopping at postulate answers we're saying, "this doesn't really answer it, but I dare not ask any more questions for fear of being labelled a non-believer."

 

Jesus said, "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

 

There's more to this than meets the eye and we have to dig to find out the answers to these questions.

Edited by BenReilly

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theophilus
When I read the bible I had a few questions in mind. Why did God create humans? What is the purpose of a human? How can a man being sacrificed cover sin? I didn't get answers to these questions.

Do we really need to know the answers now? There are a lot of things about God that we won't know during this life. He has told us all we need so we can life a life that is pleasing to him. After this life is over we will find the answers to the rest of our questions.

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BenReilly
Do we really need to know the answers now? There are a lot of things about God that we won't know during this life. He has told us all we need so we can life a life that is pleasing to him. After this life is over we will find the answers to the rest of our questions.

 

Of course we need to know. The pursuit of knowledge is vital, it's part of what drives you forward on your Christian journey. You were clearly in the pursuit of knowledge when you decided to read the bible and become a Christian. What changed? Why did you stop looking?

 

Here's how things stand in the discussion so far... we all claim to be Christian, but when we ask really simple questions about the fundamental ideas at its core all we end up with is, "the bible says so, so it must be true". I hope that doesn't sound rude. What I mean is... there /are/ reasons for everything that the bible claims. You're suggesting that we'll never know the answers to these fundamental Q's - but you're giving up before you've even tried. It's like throwing in the towel because google.com can't give us an answer - that doesn't mean there isn't an answer! And in this case because the answer is hard to find, it doesn't mean that it's a supernatural answer that we'll only get in heaven. There's no reason at all why the answer would be hidden. It's just that the bible didn't mention it in a clear way. Maybe it's ambiguous on purpose? Parts of the bible are like that. Maybe it's because knowing that is only for the people who really seek it out? Like what Jesus said about speaking in parables.

 

There is obviously a reason God created humans and humans must have a purpose. Saying that reason is to glorify God is too vague. It's might be correct in that it's part of it, but there has to be more to it as well. It's so fundamental too to Christianity and yet we had to go looking up definitions of it. The fact that we had to go look up definitions of it shows us how far removed we are from it. We had to go check what it meant, then think about whether we're doing it right lol.

 

I'll highlight this other item I discovered whilst reading the bible;

 

What is the most fundamental definition of a christian?

 

Normally people say, "to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and accept him into your life."

 

But more fundamental is this are these postulates;

 

1. You believe that God created the universe and everything in it.

2. You believe the bible is the word of God.

 

Now if you believe in those two ideas, the rest flows. Because you'll read the bible and then know what to do.

 

But there's a catch! If you agree with number 2 then you stop questioning things. Because the bible the is ultimate authority, and if it doesn't tell you something then you're not meant to know it! But this isn't right. The bible doesn't teach engineering or how to paint, yet people have to learn these things.

 

What am I on about? Check this out... I'm gonna blow your minds.

 

John 14:26King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

There's an addition to those two fundamentals;

 

You believe that God created the universe and everything in it. PS. God = father, son and Holy Ghost.

 

You see? Our postulates needed an update that was not obvious.

 

Now for the mind-blow! Who or what is the Holy Ghost and how does this entity interact with humans???????????????? ;-)

 

Go find that out and I'll tell you the next piece of the puzzley wuzzley !!!! :D

 

 

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theophilus
when we ask really simple questions about the fundamental ideas at its core all we end up with is, "the bible says so, so it must be true".

Right now the only way we can know if something is true is to read the Bible. Of course it doesn't tell us everything we want to know but it does contain all we need to know now. Probably it contains all the knowledge we are capable of understanding now. When we leave this life our capacity for understanding will be increased and God will give us the knowledge that will fill that capacity.

 

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:12 ESV)

 

Our responsibility during our present life is to study the Bible and learn the things God has already revealed. When this life is over, that will be the time to learn the things God hasn't revealed yet.

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BenReilly

Ah but that's just it ! I believe he has revealed things that we just can't see at first glance ! I have discovered things! :D

 

Anyway, I see your age there so you're probably a mine of info. What is your view on how the Holy Spirit interacts with man?

 

 

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theophilus
Anyway, I see your age there so you're probably a mine of info. What is your view on how the Holy Spirit interacts with man?

Yes, I have acquired a lot of information during my life. Unfortunately a lot of it is from sources other than the Bible so much of it is inaccurate or worthless.

 

I have never really studied how the Holy Spirit interacts with man. I know that if we become aware of our sinfulness or come to faith in Christ it is the result of the Spirit's work. When we are saved the Spirit comes to live within us and our success of failure in serving God depends on how closely we obey the leading of the Spirit.

 

 

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atpollard
Hello,

Seven being the perfect number I have seven questions for you to ponder.

 

1. Why did God create humans?

 

You will have to ask God. I cannot know the true motivations and innate drives of another person, and I am at least a person. How can I know the hidden motivations and secret desires of God, who is not a person and whose thoughts are beyond understanding. Others have given you partial answers based on the limited information that God has provided himself and you have rejected it. So go ahead, conjecture away if you wish. However, all attempts by a finite being to fully comprehend an infinite being are folly, foredoomed to failure.

 

 

2. What is the purpose of a human?

Q. What is your only comfort in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,
1

but belong— body and soul, in life and in death—
2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.
3

 

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,
4

and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.
5

He also watches over me in such a way
6

that not a hair can fall from my head

without the will of my Father in heaven;
7

in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.
8

Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life
9

and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him.
10

1
1 Cor. 6:19-20

2
Rom. 14:7-9

3
1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14

4
1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2

5
John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11

6
John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5

7
Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18

8
Rom. 8:28

9
Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14

10
Rom. 8:1-17

 

Q. Since we have been delivered from our misery by grace through Christ without any merit of our own, why then should we do good works?

A. Because Christ, having redeemed us by his blood, is also restoring us by his Spirit into his image, so that with our whole lives we may show that we are thankful to God for his benefits,
1

so that he may be praised through us,
2

so that we may be assured of our faith by its fruits,
3

and so that by our godly living our neighbors may be won over to Christ.
4

1
Rom. 6:13; 12:1-2; 1 Pet. 2:5-10

2
Matt. 5:16; 1 Cor. 6:19-20

3
Matt. 7:17-18; Gal. 5:22-24; 2 Pet. 1:10-11

4
Matt. 5:14-16; Rom. 14:17-19; 1 Pet. 2:12; 3:1-2

 

 

 

Let's see where these lead us before we waste time on any more.

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DPMartin
Hello,

 

Seven being the perfect number I have seven questions for you to ponder.

 

1. Why did God create humans?

2. What is the purpose of a human?

3. Why did sacrifice of animals atone for sin?

4. How does Jesus' sacrifice wipe all sin from a person?

5. How does Jesus dying once cover the sins of all humans who believe in him?

6. When the bible says, "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life" what is the exact definition of "believe"?

7. What is the exact definition of the word "worship"?

 

Any answers and discussion welcome.

 

Thanks,

Ben.

 

 

 

man was given God's place in the earth, and Adam:

 

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

 

 

 

Adam "lost" that Life of son ship and was left with dust to dust and ashes to ashes. therefore that which is of earth remains in the earth, and that which is of Heaven remains in Heaven.

 

 

so in God's place in the earth as a son of God, man is to execute God's Judgement, and God's Judgement is Life, which was expressed in His commandment to Adam. its not man's job to judge what is good and evil for God's creation that is God's job. man's job is to discern what is for and against what God's Judgement of what is good and evil for His creation. but they sot to be like gods didn't they? knowing good and evil.

 

 

and God in His good Judgment has brought that Life back into the world via His Beloved Son the Word of God made flesh our Lord Jesus Christ and requires of use the same thing that lost the Life in the first place which is the same thing that would have kept that Life.

 

belief/trust also known as faith. Adam listened to Eve who listened and believed/trusted the serpent.

 

and if you don't know what honor, fear, and admiration, belief and trust is, then you don't know what worship is.

 

 

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BenReilly
I know that if we become aware of our sinfulness or come to faith in Christ it is the result of the Spirit's work. When we are saved the Spirit comes to live within us and our success of failure in serving God depends on how closely we obey the leading of the Spirit.

 

Hmm, the Spirit lives within us... yet we don't know how to communicate with it? How does it 'lead' a person?

 

Others have given you partial answers based on the limited information that God has provided himself and you have rejected it.

 

I haven't rejected it, I said...

 

It's might be correct in that it's part of it, but there has to be more to it as well.

 

~~~

 

man was given God's place in the earth, and Adam:

 

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

 

DPMartin, interesting idea. Came across a similar idea a while back, Adam was possibly literally God's son, like Jesus, but he messed it up.

 

so in God's place in the earth as a son of God, man is to execute God's Judgement, and God's Judgement is Life, which was expressed in His commandment to Adam. its not man's job to judge what is good and evil for God's creation that is God's job. man's job is to discern what is for and against what God's Judgement of what is good and evil for His creation. but they sot to be like gods didn't they? knowing good and evil.

 

and God in His good Judgment has brought that Life back into the world via His Beloved Son the Word of God made flesh our Lord Jesus Christ and requires of use the same thing that lost the Life in the first place which is the same thing that would have kept that Life.

 

belief/trust also known as faith. Adam listened to Eve who listened and believed/trusted the serpent.

 

and if you don't know what honor, fear, and admiration, belief and trust is, then you don't know what worship is.

 

 

"man's job is to discern what is for and against what God's Judgement of what is good and evil for His creation. but they sot to be like gods didn't they? knowing good and evil."

 

This sounds intriguing ! Can you clarify this part?

 

"...and requires of use the same thing that lost the Life in the first place which is the same thing that would have kept that Life."

 

Can you clarify this too?

 

Thanks :)

 

 

 

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BenReilly
Do we really need to know the answers now? There are a lot of things about God that we won't know during this life. He has told us all we need so we can life a life that is pleasing to him. After this life is over we will find the answers to the rest of our questions.

 

1 Corinthians 2:9-10King James Version (KJV)

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 

...the deep things of God, revealed unto us by His Spirit.

 

Voila ! It says so in the bible lol

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atpollard

 

1 Corinthians 2:9-10King James Version (KJV)

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 

...the deep things of God, revealed unto us by His Spirit.

 

Voila ! It says so in the bible lol

 

You have committed the Logic Falacy known as "Hasty Generalization".

 

Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a rushed conclusion without considering all of the variables. In statistics, it may involve basing broad conclusions regarding the statistics of a survey from a small sample group that fails to sufficiently represent an entire population.

 

For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 people, all of them children, they may erroneously conclude that there are no adult residents in the town.

 

The fact that God chooses to reveal SOME of his unknowable mysteries through his Holy Spirit (God has revealed that he has wonderful things planned for our eternal destiny) cannot be taken as proof that God has revealed all of his unknowable mysteries (What of the details of eternity not revealed in the Bible? How many grandchildren will you have and what is the name of their future spouse? How will your children serve God? Will any of them die a martyr's death?)

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BenReilly
The fact that God chooses to reveal SOME of his unknowable mysteries through his Holy Spirit (God has revealed that he has wonderful things planned for our eternal destiny) cannot be taken as proof that God has revealed all of his unknowable mysteries

 

Don't you want to know what SOME of these unknowable things are? Or do you mean they have already been revealed through the bible? If that's the case are you not verging on suggesting that the Holy Spirit is useless?

 

The bible says the Holy Spirit can reveal things to you - how can that not be of extreme interest to a Christian?? I'm like the man who knows there's gold in the field - and I'm trying to buy the field here! lol

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BenReilly

"Assuming that you believe what you act out - which I think is a really good way of fundamentally defining belief." - Jordan B Peterson.

 

Let's look again at John 3:16

 

John 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

So one could argue, from a psychoanalyst's definition of believe, that this means whosoever acts out what Jesus said/did should not perish, but have everlasting life. This would suggest that it's not just belief defined as;

 

belief

bɪˈliːf/

noun

1.

an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.

"his belief in extraterrestrial life"

2.

trust, faith, or confidence in (someone or something).

"a belief in democratic politics"

 

Think on that ;)

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BenReilly

Ah lads. Ye's are in the dark and you can't even be bothered looking for the light switch.

 

:-( sad times

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Sue D.

Apparently you think that IF a person asks for Enough knowledge that 'we' will be Given all the knowledge we want. God IS the supreme Being. There are Many things we Won't know -- that we don't Need to know. And when a born-again believer Does enter heaven / eternity with God -- we won't Need those answers that some of us want.

 

You want to know everything NOW -- God is the Only person who has All - knowledge. He alone knows what is Best for each person. There is a need for 'us' to Trust God's Word -- His plan for us.

 

With the knowledge of God's Word that you have Now -- are you using That knowledge to share with others who might Not have that knowledge -- that there's a heaven and hell in the future. The way a person can be in heaven and stay out of hell.

 

Are You loving the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul? Are you loving others with that same kind of love? Are people seeing Christ in You and being attracted To Him?

 

The Holy Spirit reveals to different people different things. We all have different backgrounds -- we come to Christ from all those various backgrounds / cultures. Those in war torn countries see life in a very different way than those in California or Texas or Iowa. And those states in the U.S. A. see life fairly differently from each other. Transport some of Us to Iraq or Somalia, Yemen , etc. So -- how the Holy Spirit leads someone from Those countries Might be different from how He leads Me, for instance. Our Freedoms are very different.

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BenReilly

Hi Sue,

 

Your one-line of argument is backed up by nothing but postulates. Hmm... I'm not convinced you understand what you believe :)

 

Convince me that you understand fundamentally what God is, who Jesus is, what the Holy Spirit is. The significance of what Jesus did, how a person is to conduct themselves on Earth and the way in which one enters the Kingdom of heaven.

 

And to get back to the topic... convince me that you understand how the Holy Spirit interacts with a person on the individual level.

 

I am NOT asking these things trying to test you. I am asking these things so you think about them deeply. So many Christians I know are wishy-washy skin-deep Christians and it makes me sad. That's why I like talking to older people, I am hoping they, in their age and wisdom, have these real answers. There ARE answers to these questions - seek and yet shall find. Knock and it shall be opened! This is what I'm trying to get across!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINT HINT !!!!!!!! :D

 

Thanks,

Ben.

 

 

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Sue D.
Hi Sue,

 

Your one-line of argument is backed up by nothing but postulates. Hmm... I'm not convinced you understand what you believe :)

 

Convince me that you understand fundamentally what God is, who Jesus is, what the Holy Spirit is. The significance of what Jesus did, how a person is to conduct themselves on Earth and the way in which one enters the Kingdom of heaven.

 

And to get back to the topic... convince me that you understand how the Holy Spirit interacts with a person on the individual level.

 

I am NOT asking these things trying to test you. I am asking these things so you think about them deeply. So many Christians I know are wishy-washy skin-deep Christians and it makes me sad. That's why I like talking to older people, I am hoping they, in their age and wisdom, have these real answers. There ARE answers to these questions - seek and yet shall find. Knock and it shall be opened! This is what I'm trying to get across!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINT HINT !!!!!!!! :D

 

Thanks,

Ben.

 

Sounds like you're not satisfied with the knowledge you Do have or have been given. He, the Holy Spirit, interacts with Me about various things. How / what the Holy Spirit interacts with Me about is, frankly, no one's business but my own. Unless I feel led To share - Privately. Maybe you should read God's Word for yourself and let the Holy Spirit teach you. Hint - hint -- God is the Only One with All Knowledge -- the Holy Spirit gives knowledge as He sees fit. No one is going to have All knowledge until they get to heaven. And then it won't matter to us.

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Sue D.
Hi Sue,

 

Your one-line of argument is backed up by nothing but postulates. Hmm... I'm not convinced you understand what you believe :)

 

Convince me that you understand fundamentally what God is, who Jesus is, what the Holy Spirit is. The significance of what Jesus did, how a person is to conduct themselves on Earth and the way in which one enters the Kingdom of heaven.

 

And to get back to the topic... convince me that you understand how the Holy Spirit interacts with a person on the individual level.

 

I am NOT asking these things trying to test you. I am asking these things so you think about them deeply. So many Christians I know are wishy-washy skin-deep Christians and it makes me sad. That's why I like talking to older people, I am hoping they, in their age and wisdom, have these real answers. There ARE answers to these questions - seek and yet shall find. Knock and it shall be opened! This is what I'm trying to get across!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HINT HINT !!!!!!!! :D

 

Thanks,

Ben.

 

Also , your approach leaves a bit to be desired. :)

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BenReilly

Hi Sue,

 

In my experience the Holy Spirit is feminine lol. Anyhow. Why is it a problem to share with us how the Holy Spirit interacts with you?

 

To answer your other minor question I've read God's word cover-to-cover and continue to read it. I'm satisfied with what it says in that it makes reference to the Holy Spirit communicating with mankind... this is what I now want to seriously explore as the concept is totally forigien to most Christians. Waving hands round in church? Ministers throwing around careless statements like, "..can't you really feel the Holy Spirit tonight?" Nonsense ! Total wish-wash nonsense! That is not how it works or what the Holy Spirit is. At least the aspect of it I'm referring to.

 

I could tell you from my experience so far how I believe it works, but I don't want to say anything leading. I just want someone, anyone, who can actually tell me about their experiences on this matter and so far no one I've talked to has a single answer or wants to share anything about it.

 

Can you pretty please tell me about it ??? :) With sugar on top ?

 

Thanks,

Ben.

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atpollard
I could tell you from my experience so far how I believe it works, but I don't want to say anything leading. I just want someone, anyone, who can actually tell me about their experiences on this matter and so far no one I've talked to has a single answer or wants to share anything about it.

It tends to be a deeply personal matter that most are reluctant to discuss.

 

Different ways on different occasions. I have a mentor who tells me that one of the names for God is "Meets you at your point of need". Since I don't read Hebrew and he has a masters from Moody, I take his word for it. However letters after a name deserve respect for the achievement they represent, but never really frightened me. I know the God they read about and scripture, my experiences and thier theology should all agree on the same absolute Truths.

 

Sometimes the Holy Spirit communicates through a softening of the heart and apparent coincidence.

Nothing elaborate or full of mumbo-jumbo, just an uncharacteristic moment of inclination to listen. Here is an example from real life. Christianity, church and Jesus all written off with Santa and the Easter Bunny as tall tales to entertain children, but nothing applicable to the real world. In the real world, there are people that want to hurt you, and people you want to kill before they can do it to you. In the real world, you live on a count down to suicide by cop, death from 'lead poisioning' or life without parole. Then one day, someone you haven't seen in 5 years just looks you up to tell you about something that he found that you really need to see. Any other day, you would have said no. Today, for some reason, you say "why not, I guess so." He follows up every day to make sure you can't back out by reminding you that you agreed to see 'whatever' it was. Friday comes around and the largest human being you have ever met in your life offers the two of you a ride to this place. At a Catholic Charismatic Fellowship (of all places) I was introduced for the first time to the God who Is (rather than the cartoon 'god' of Sunday School).

 

Sometimes the Holy Spirit communicates audibly and makes his presence felt.

You can follow God, be saved, and still screw a lot of things up. I left my initial fellowship community to go to college. At a small community college, I took my one and only Theology course at which a Jesuit Professor with great excitement peeled apart Genesis into the "P", "S" and "V" sources that had been combined to create it. He was so excited by the discovery. I remember that what I knew of scripture would not have filled an index card, but coming from Atheism to Christianity, all I ever sought from God and his word was TRUTH. I came with no preconceptions about sotierology. I don't think the Professor ever realized the inescapable logical consequence of what he taught ... if the Holy Bible was compiled piecemeal by combining fragments from a bunch of old scrolls by later Priests in Babylon to form new paragraphs and chapters, then the Bible is not a reliable source of information on God. [He was wrong, but I was too new to the faith to know it.] So the word of God was the first thing stripped away from me by the enemy. Then I transferred to a new school and attempted to find a new fellowship. I walked in on a debate concerning how Jesus was not really a man but just appeared to be a man. [sigh] A visit to a few local churches revealed a general interest in selling raffle tickets above anything to do with Christ. So much for Christian Fellowship. I still clung to what I knew from my conversion experience and my personal prayer life. I had the music and newsletter from a Christian Artist I followed to occasionally encourage me, until he died in a plane crash. Then I graduated college, got a job and was hit with a major recession and laid off. I was an Architectural Apprentice applying for jobs for a draftsman and found myself competing against a Licensed Architect who had owned his own firm. After two years of unemployment, I was a few thousand dollars away from being homeless. So I decided to leave Christianity and go back to the old life I had known. I had enough to get a gun and start to move drugs out of Miami. However, I felt that I owed Jesus a face-to-face resignation. So I walked (no car left at that point) to the nearest church, a small white 'Church of God of Anderson Indiana' that had an unlocked front door and an empty sanctuary. So I picked a polished oak pew and sat down.

 

"We both know that I have been calling out to you for a while now. I really don't know what sin it is that I've done that you can't seem to forgive, but I can't wait any more. I have to quit waiting on you and take care of things my way. And if you can't forgive me, then ..." [the words 'F--- Y--' formed in my mind. I remember inhaling the breath to say them and positioning my lips for the first letter.] ... "No." came an audible voice in the empty room. A command that instantly took my breath away. Followed by silence. I mustered my resolve and with more cold resignation and sadness than burning anger, whispered "I'm finished looking for you. If you want me, you know where to find me." I walked out and went home. That was on a Friday. Saturday morning I started to get ready to head to Miami.

 

A year earlier, I had attempted a shotgun mailing of my resume to every Architect listed within about a 50 mile radius. Nothing came of it. However one resume went to a Mr Drake, Local Architect who ran a one man office out of his home. Mr Drake gave his copy to the Engineering firm where he worked part time and they stuck it in a file. The same day I 'quit' God, a man named Dave Himes decided that he didn't want to be a Land Planner any more and quit without notice to manage an athletic shoe store. So as I was making preparations on Saturday to head to Miami, I got a call to come in to Spring Engineering for an interview. I was told to start work Monday morning.

 

Saturday, as I was sitting at home I prayed to God "OK, you have my attention. So I'll give you tomorrow. I'll go to that church and I'll listen to whatever sermon they give and assume that you are talking to me and I'll say yes to whatever you ask tomorrow." So I did. I don't really remember the sermon, but you know how small churches are when someone new shows up. However God had a funny card to play. At the very end, Sylverster Kaunda [a missionary from Africa to the United States - yes, they send missionaries to reach our lost] told me he had a Bible Study on Sunday nights at the Parsonage and wanted to invite me. By my pledge to God, I had to say 'yes'.

 

So that is the story of how the Holy Spirit converted an Atheist to an Arminian using the Catholic Charismatics and the Church of God of Anderson Indiana. It was at that church I learned about Bible Precepts and the folly of the earlier Jesuit. It was also at that church that they freaked out when I commented in passing one day that I had never been baptized ... so they fixed that.

 

Most of the time, the Holy Spirit works with a still small voice on the inside. When something is upsetting me and I flop down on the bed and just open the Bible to somewhere, anywhere, at random and start to read. Pages later I discover that I am calm, and as often as not scripture (and the Holy Spirit) has revealed to me that I was looking at everything all wrong. Sometimes I read scripture and I suddenly see a thread that links it to another scripture in a way that I had never noticed before. That, too, is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

There is no ONE WAY that the Holy Spirit communicates and his communication is often on a deeply personal level. Not something that one shares lightly.

Edited by atpollard
spellin'
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