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Guppy

For there were some Greeks

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Guppy

20Now some Greeks were among those who had come up to worship at the festival. 21They went to Philip (who was from Bethsaida in Galilee) and told him, “Sir, we would like to see Jesus.”

 

22Philip went and told Andrew, and Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus. 23Jesus told them, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24Truly, I tell all of youl emphatically, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it produces a lot of grain. 25The one who loves his life will destroy it, and the one who hates his life in this world will preserve it for eternal life. 26If anyone serves me, he must follow me. And where I am, there my servant will also be. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.”

 

I never noticed these greeks before and I am a little puzzled about there significance. It almost seems like there was no need to mention them. One verse prior the pharisees said look the whole world has gone after him. Then we are told that these Greeks wanted to see Jesus and when Philip and Andrew go to him he said the time has come

 

He never addresses the Greeks, so why are they mentioned?

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William
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I never noticed these greeks before and I am a little puzzled about there significance. It almost seems like there was no need to mention them.

 

He never addresses the Greeks, so why are they mentioned?

 

My first thoughts are that Christ is being received outside of Judea. The Greeks lived beyond the sea and came to "worship". The Greek presence may not of been a regular or common occurrence for the Evangelist to mention them.

 

God bless,

William

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Origen
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I can give at least a partial answer. Up to this point Jesus always maintained "the hour" was still future.

 

 

John 2:4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”

 

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father."

 

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

 

John 8:20 These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.

 

 

The coming of the Greeks proved to be a trigger. From then on "the hour" was immediate.

 

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

 

John 12:27 “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour."

 

John 13:1 Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

 

John 16:32 "Behold, the hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered..."

 

John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you..."

 

 

While the Greeks appear to be only incidental, the coming of the Greeks is the event which precipitates the change in Jesus.

Edited by Origen
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William
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I can give at least a partial answer. Up to this point Jesus always maintained "the hour" was still future.

 

 

John 2:4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”

 

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father."

 

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

 

John 8:20 These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.

 

 

The coming of the Greeks proved to be a trigger. From then on "the hour" was immediate.

 

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

 

John 12:27 “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour."

 

John 13:1 Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

 

John 16:32 "Behold, the hour is coming, indeed it has come, when you will be scattered..."

 

John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you..."

 

 

While the Greeks appear to be only incidental, the coming of the Greeks is the event which precipitates the change in Jesus.

 

My first response which I deleted touched upon your very same point. I believe John Chapter 4 is pertinent too. In addition to the verses which you provided from John Chapter 4:

  • 34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. 36 Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. 37 For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

The Samaritans received Jesus. This was a sign of the harvest. The Gentiles at this point were prepared for Christ. In John Chapter 12 a similar sign is given. The Greeks were asking about Jesus. They were present. The Gospel is already going out to the Gentiles, across the seas into foreign countries. The elect are being drawn to Christ.

 

The preparation of what is necessary behind the scenes is mind boggling. It isn't just about Christ moving through time going to the cross, but preparation in the hearts of God's elect by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God ordained not only the sinful choices which are leading to the Crucifixion, but God intervenes in the lives of His Elect drawing them in to Himself through the Son. It would not be enough to hang Christ on a Cross, but the hearts of men need be regenerated by the Holy Spirit so that the works of Christ may be received, and Himself as Lord and Savior on the Cross.

 

The Greek presence is yet another sign of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I think the Greek presence was a "trigger" or a sign sent by God which conveys that His people are prepared according to His timetable. The harvest is ready, and now is the time, if Christ be lifted up He'll draw His elect from every tribe, tongue, and nation through Himself to the Father.

 

God bless,

William

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Guppy
While the Greeks appear to be only incidental, the coming of the Greeks is the event which precipitates the change in Jesus.

 

I agree, it had appeared to me at first to be incidental, but when is scripture incidental? The fact that it appeared to be incidental was what caused me to stop and ask the question .

 

Did the Greeks precipitate the change? Passover was just in front of them, Jesus knew his hour had come. Why wait for these Greeks to proclaim it?

 

Maybe these Greeks were scholarly, maybe they knew scripture and came to the conclusion that Jesus was the messiah, but if that was so, then they would also know messiah was to die, but they didn't know when.

 

Maybe thats why Jesus proclaims the hour has come, knowing their thoughts and explaining that a grain of wheat must die to produce fruit.

 

Maybe they were smart enough to know he was Messiah maybe they even knew he was to die, but they didn't know when and Jesus proclaims the Hour has come.

 

 

 

 

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Origen
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My first response which I deleted touched upon your very same point. I believe John Chapter 4 is pertinent too. In addition to the verses which you provided from John Chapter 4:

  • 34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. 35 Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. 36 Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. 37 For here the saying holds true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’ 38 I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor.”

The Samaritans received Jesus. This was a sign of the harvest. The Gentiles at this point were prepared for Christ. In John Chapter 12 a similar sign is given. The Greeks were asking about Jesus. They were present. The Gospel is already going out to the Gentiles, across the seas into foreign countries. The elect are being drawn to Christ.

 

The preparation of what is necessary behind the scenes is mind boggling. It isn't just about Christ moving through time going to the cross, but preparation in the hearts of God's elect by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God ordained not only the sinful choices which are leading to the Crucifixion, but God intervenes in the lives of His Elect drawing them in to Himself through the Son. It would not be enough to hang Christ on a Cross, but the hearts of men need be regenerated by the Holy Spirit so that the works of Christ may be received, and Himself as Lord and Savior on the Cross.

 

The Greek presence is yet another sign of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. I think the Greek presence was a "trigger" or a sign sent by God which conveys that His people are prepared according to His timetable. The harvest is ready, and now is the time, if Christ be lifted up He'll draw His elect from every tribe, tongue, and nation through Himself to the Father.

Could it in some way relate to what Paul says?

 

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in... (Rom. 11:25)

 

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Origen
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I agree, it had appeared to me at first to be incidental, but when is scripture incidental? The fact that it appeared to be incidental was what caused me to stop and ask the question .

 

Did the Greeks precipitate the change? Passover was just in front of them, Jesus knew his hour had come. Why wait for these Greeks to proclaim it?

 

Maybe these Greeks were scholarly, maybe they knew scripture and came to the conclusion that Jesus was the messiah, but if that was so, then they would also know messiah was to die, but they didn't know when.

 

Maybe thats why Jesus proclaims the hour has come, knowing their thoughts and explaining that a grain of wheat must die to produce fruit.

 

Maybe they were smart enough to know he was Messiah maybe they even knew he was to die, but they didn't know when and Jesus proclaims the Hour has come.

All good questions which I cannot say I know the answers. lol

 

Perhaps not only Rom. 11:25 (see above post 6) has some bearing upon the matter but also Matt. 21:43:

 

Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

 

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William
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Could it in some way relate to what Paul says?

 

 

 

In that God's plan is fully determined but hidden and awaiting its revelation at the proper moment?

 

God bless,

William

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