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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Why do most modern Christians only follow 9 of the 10 commandments? [Sabbath Day]

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3 hours ago, William said:

Segregation. So you're suggesting Paul is not addressing Gentiles here but only Jews? Paul is not addressing the church but his intended audience is the Jews? Paul is only addressing Jews in Corinth?

 

Our fathers is thus not the fathers of our church but only of Jews for our example?

 

Seriously, bro, this is the point I'd abandon all dispensationalism and lean away from Baptist theology towards Reformed Covenant Theology.

 

Why would Paul even mention that our fathers were baptized into Moses?

 

Were the very things that were evil which we are not to crave our father's baptism?

 

God bless,

William

Not segregation, just a reality check.  Paul and Timothy and Barnabas and Mark were all traveling companions and they were all Jewish Christians, so THEIR fathers did pass through the Red Sea on the way out of Egypt.  The example from those who died in the wilderness (like the LAW itself) serves as a teacher to the Gentiles to warn us about the pitfalls of sin, however that does not place us under the Mosaic Covenant or make us biological children of Israel.

 

 

The baptism of Moses saved none of the generation except Joshua and Caleb ... all of the others died in the wilderness without ever being allowed into the promised land.  As Hebrews says, we already have a better Covenant with better promises.  Why would I want to own the covenant of the Law and death?

 

It was Paul’s fathers that offered all Christians a warning by their example.  

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3 hours ago, islandrazor said:

Hey anyone here that wishes to honor the Sabbath, good on you. It's just not a do or die command unless you are doing it for salvation along with every other law. Then, well. I don't believe anyone here would condemn you, not that, that would matter. God won't ask me or anyone else on that day for our opinion.

 

 

Those of us that choose to honor the seventh day Sabbath do so not for salvation or for brownie points but we instead meditate on all of God's law and other scriptures (Psalms 1). Paul said all things are lawful but all things are not expedient.

 

We choose to delight in the Sabbath and we don't really need your approval or opinion. So why are you going on about it so? Does it really bother you so much? Does our Sabbath keeping suggest that others are doing it wrong? Maybe so. Maybe we are wrong about it. Let us let God sort it out in His time. I can only share how the Spirit has led me. If I am listening to the wrong Spirit, it will be on me, won't it? I am still willing to call you brethren if you will let me.  

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44 minutes ago, deade said:

 

Those of us that choose to honor the seventh day Sabbath do so not for salvation or for brownie points but we instead meditate on all of God's law and other scriptures (Psalms 1). Paul said all things are lawful but all things are not expedient.

 

We choose to delight in the Sabbath and we don't really need your approval or opinion. So why are you going on about it so? Does it really bother you so much? Does our Sabbath keeping suggest that others are doing it wrong? Maybe so. Maybe we are wrong about it. Let us let God sort it out in His time. I can only share how the Spirit has led me. If I am listening to the wrong Spirit, it will be on me, won't it? I am still willing to call you brethren if you will let me.  

I worked for 15 years with an SDA. We were both general contractors and built residential homes, just the two of us, every day, 8 hrs. He was and is a good friend. We sent 5 of our children to their school. I respected him as a Christian brother, I attended service with them several times, I signed off on the building permit as the contractor of record for them when they built the chapel. Saturday service didn't really work out for me since I at times found it necessary to work Saturdays and I am accustomed to Sunday service. We respected each other.

 

No you don't need my approval, but you have it for what it's worth, perhaps nothing in your estimation. If you have taken offense, none was intended, quite the opposite. Perhaps if you re-read my posts you would find that my stated position is simply that as far as a choice of a day of worship believers do what they believe in their own hearts. In mine, all days are the same. Should you choose or choose not to consider me a brother over this, that is your prerogative. I see no reason to consider you as anything other a brother based on your online presence here.

 

No you are not wrong about it. It is only wrong in my estimation if it is adhered to as a justification for salvation by works.

 

In Christ

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1 hour ago, islandrazor said:

I worked for 15 years with an SDA. We were both general contractors and built residential homes, just the two of us, every day, 8 hrs. He was and is a good friend. We sent 5 of our children to their school. I respected him as a Christian brother, I attended service with them several times, I signed off on the building permit as the contractor of record for them when they built the chapel. Saturday service didn't really work out for me since I at times found it necessary to work Saturdays and I am accustomed to Sunday service. We respected each other.

 

No you don't need my approval, but you have it for what it's worth, perhaps nothing in your estimation. If you have taken offense, none was intended, quite the opposite. Perhaps if you re-read my posts you would find that my stated position is simply that as far as a choice of a day of worship believers do what they believe in their own hearts. In mine, all days are the same. Should you choose or choose not to consider me a brother over this, that is your prerogative. I see no reason to consider you as anything other a brother based on your online presence here.

 

No you are not wrong about it. It is only wrong in my estimation if it is adhered to as a justification for salvation by works.

 

In Christ

No offence on my part. I am glad to have you as a brother in Christ. We can stand together to keep the socialist from shutting our churches down and killing our free speech.  

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19 hours ago, islandrazor said:

Perhaps. But, that is in how one would choose to read it.

 

Corinthians 3:8 absolves everyone of the need to follow the 10 commandments?

Of course not. Christs death and resurrection did that. The other rules are reiterated, and are really just common sense, "Love your brother" behaviors.

 

In Christ

 

My issue with this theory is that Matthew 5:17-20 says,

17 Think not that I have come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

After this, Christ then expounds on how the commandments are truly to be kept, elevating the perceived standards even further. This shows that He did not come to abolish any of the ten commandments, however he did establish a new covenant which now allows us the freedom to access forgiveness without the sacrificing of sheep and bullocks.

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12 hours ago, islandrazor said:

I worked for 15 years with an SDA. We were both general contractors and built residential homes, just the two of us, every day, 8 hrs. He was and is a good friend. We sent 5 of our children to their school. I respected him as a Christian brother, I attended service with them several times, I signed off on the building permit as the contractor of record for them when they built the chapel. Saturday service didn't really work out for me since I at times found it necessary to work Saturdays and I am accustomed to Sunday service. We respected each other.

 

No you don't need my approval, but you have it for what it's worth, perhaps nothing in your estimation. If you have taken offense, none was intended, quite the opposite. Perhaps if you re-read my posts you would find that my stated position is simply that as far as a choice of a day of worship believers do what they believe in their own hearts. In mine, all days are the same. Should you choose or choose not to consider me a brother over this, that is your prerogative. I see no reason to consider you as anything other a brother based on your online presence here.

 

No you are not wrong about it. It is only wrong in my estimation if it is adhered to as a justification for salvation by works.

 

In Christ

Personally, I have no problem with SDA worshiping on any given day. What I find intolerable is the denial of the Trinity through the rejection of the Nicene Creed and the following of a false prophetess Ellen White.

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16 minutes ago, IchimaruGin said:

 

My issue with this theory is that Matthew 5:17-20 says,

17 Think not that I have come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

After this, Christ then expounds on how the commandments are truly to be kept, elevating the perceived standards even further. This shows that He did not come to abolish any of the ten commandments, however he did establish a new covenant which now allows us the freedom to access forgiveness without the sacrificing of sheep and bullocks.

How are we made righteous?

 

The question is twofold: Justification is not Sanctification but both are essential in our righteousness and holiness.

 

Lastly, I wouldn't necessarily state that Covenant equals salvation. There's a difference between them.

 

God bless,

William

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Just now, William said:

How are we made righteous?

 

The question is twofold. Justification is not Sanctification.

 

God bless,

William

 

We know that we are justified by accepting Christ as our saviour and repenting of our sins. Sanctification comes over time as we show our gratitude to God by doing His will, which again can be summarized as 'loving God first' - the first 4 commandments, and 'loving our fellow man' - the last 6 commandments. My purpose of my last post was to point out that scripture shows that the 10 commandments are still to be kept.

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3 minutes ago, William said:

Personally, I have no problem with SDA worshiping on any given day. What I find intolerable is the denial of the Trinity through the rejection of the Nicene Creed and the following of a false prophetess.

Ahh, William,

 

I, as I'm sure others are, am tired of seeing my name on so many threads. I was thinking of taking a bit of a break.

I'm certain God has people in many places as when Elijah was feeling put upon and alone. (Perceived implications of that statement may garner me some flak.) Ellen is another issue, true. Enlighten me on the denial of the trinity. Really, I was unaware.

 

In Christ

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Just now, IchimaruGin said:

 

We know that we are justified by accepting Christ as our saviour and repenting of our sins. Sanctification comes over time as we show our gratitude to God by doing His will, which again can be summarized as 'loving God first' - the first 4 commandments, and 'loving our fellow man' - the last 6 commandments. My purpose of my last post was to point out that scripture shows that the 10 commandments are still to be kept.

Are we?

 

In both your explanations you seemingly emphasize what "I, me, and myself" must do. What does God do in both Justification and Sanctification?

 

Just exactly what do we have to show our gratitude for (soli deo gloria)?

 

Our perspective on these matters also separates various schools of thought. Some are rather religious (man centered) and others are theological (God centered).

 

Care to elaborate more?

 

And I agree with you that all 10 commandments are binding. However, I think from surveying your posts we have different understandings on how they're binding.

 

God bless,

William

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13 minutes ago, islandrazor said:

Ahh, William,

 

I, as I'm sure others are, am tired of seeing my name on so many threads. I was thinking of taking a bit of a break.

I'm certain God has people in many places as when Elijah was feeling put upon and alone. (Perceived implications of that statement may garner me some flak.) Ellen is another issue, true. Enlighten me on the denial of the trinity. Really, I was unaware.

 

In Christ

For one, your participation, engagement, and fellowship throughout these last days have brought a refreshing new outlook on our community. Last thing I hope for is for you to retract rather than to make a strong presence as much as convenient.

 

On the subject of SDA, they reject the divinity of the 2nd Person of the Trinity. Here's a brief overview from CARM:

 

The Seventh-day Adventist church is a controversial organization. With its founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, they teach that the proper day of worship is Saturday, Jesus is Michael the Archangel, ultimately Satan will bear all of our sins, when a person dies he does not exist anymore, hell is not eternal, and more. They emphasize dietary laws and what many consider to be a legalism, especially since they teach you can lose your salvation. Some consider it a cult and others do not. Nevertheless, it is an organization that needs to be examined. https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism

 

If the above statement is true in case of every SDA individual then that brings to question whether a person can be saved while rejecting the divinity of Jesus Christ? There are so many things wrong which really need be addressed because all of it touches upon "essential doctrine". Generally, this is why we use the Nicene Creed as a litmus test of orthodoxy. Without I'd feel like a mosquito in a nudest colony. I wouldn't know where to start!

 

Lastly, not meaning to give you any flak for your statements. My mood is rather casual and I was simply approaching you as if we were to have a casual conversation over morning coffee.

 

God bless,

William

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5 minutes ago, William said:

Are we?

 

In both your explanations you seemingly emphasize what "I, me, and myself" must do. What does God do in both Justification and Sanctification?

 

Just exactly what do we have to show our gratitude for (soli deo gloria)?

 

Our perspective on these matters also separates various schools of thought. Some are rather religious (man centered) and others are theological (God centered).

 

Care to elaborate more?

 

And I agree with you that all 10 commandments are binding. However, I think from surveying your posts we have different understandings on how they're binding.

 

God bless,

William

 

I believe that when we confess our sins, Christ erases the debt and covers us with his robe of righteousness, making us blameless in God's sight which is justification. Sanctification comes over time as one continues to pray and read the bible, earnestly seeking a relationship with God. He infills you with more and more of His spirit and you become more and more like Him in my understanding. 

 

What is your understanding on the 10 commandments?

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14 minutes ago, William said:

For one, your participation, engagement, and fellowship throughout these last days have brought a refreshing new outlook on our community. Last thing I hope for is for you to retract rather than to make a strong presence as much as convenient.

 

On the subject of SDA, they reject the divinity of the 2nd Person of the Trinity. Here's a brief overview from CARM:

 

The Seventh-day Adventist church is a controversial organization. With its founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, they teach that the proper day of worship is Saturday, Jesus is Michael the Archangel, ultimately Satan will bear all of our sins, when a person dies he does not exist anymore, hell is not eternal, and more. They emphasize dietary laws and what many consider to be a legalism, especially since they teach you can lose your salvation. Some consider it a cult and others do not. Nevertheless, it is an organization that needs to be examined. https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism

 

If the above true in case of every SDA individual then that brings to question whether a person can be saved while rejecting the divinity of Jesus Christ? There are so many things wrong which really need be addressed because all of it touches upon "essential doctrine". Generally, this is why we use the Nicene Creed as a litmus test of orthodoxy. Without I'd feel like a mosquito in a nudest colony. I wouldn't know where to start!

 

Lastly, not meaning to give you any flak for your statements. My mood is rather casual and I was simply approaching you as if we were to have a casual conversation over morning coffee.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

I was unaware that Jesus was the archangel, Satan… Huh? I knew they consider eternal damnation to be eternally snuffed out as opposed to an eternally ongoing event. I understood the dietary aspects were just a strongly recommended healthier choice.

Archangel, Satan, if so, may be approaching deal breakers.

 

Nah, didn't expect flak from your direction. Yours would be reasoned discourse.

 

In Christ

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18 minutes ago, IchimaruGin said:

 

I believe that when we confess our sins, Christ erases the debt and covers us with his robe of righteousness, making us blameless in God's sight which is justification. Sanctification comes over time as one continues to pray and read the bible, earnestly seeking a relationship with God. He infills you with more and more of His spirit and you become more and more like Him in my understanding. 

 

What is your understanding on the 10 commandments?

Heb, 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

 

It appears to me that sanctification was done by God through Christ not by us working for it.

 

In Christ

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2 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

What is your understanding on the 10 commandments?

The 10 commandments are unlike the civil and ceremonial laws which are distinct but temporary, the moral law though distinct is permanent. The 10 commandments reflect the character and nature of God, therefore they are permanent and binding.  On this subject I reject that Gentiles (unbelieving) were not under the law, for if they weren't then how were they transgressing? The 10 commandments are moral Laws which impress upon our conscience, that is, they are grounded in creation and reveled in nature.

 

Furthermore, as my point was already rejected elsewhere in reference to 1 Corinthians 10:1-2, Paul uses the typological method, both in the before mentioned verse and also Ephesians 6:1-9 where Paul extracts the 5th commandment Exodus 20:12 "that your days may be long in the land Yahweh your God is giving you" (Canaan). A familiar expression from the OT: Deuteronomy 5:33, 6:3, 18; 12:25; 22:7; Jeremiah 7:23. Paul takes a promise made to national Israel and transfers it to God's people, the church (neither Jew or Gentile), the faithful remnant, the true Israel of God.

 

Ephesians 6:1-9 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.” 4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

 

5 Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, 6 not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. 9 Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master[c] and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.

 

The 10 commandments are repeated in the NT. The obvious dispute and controversy here in this thread is over the 4th commandment: compare Hebrews 4 with Psalm 95.

 

On a historical note we have evidence of the early church reading the Ten Commandments in worship services. Pliny the Younger and Trajan on the Christians:

 

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

 

WWW.EARLYCHRISTIANWRITINGS.COM

Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan on the subject of the Christians and the response of Trajan to Pliny the Younger. On Early Christian Writings.

 

Lastly, I believe the 10 commandments are binding in our sanctification. This differs from the Law leading to Justification (works righteousness). We are not justified by keeping the Law, we are justified by the alien righteousness of Jesus Christ which is imputed to us. I also reject the notion of performance based salvation, that is during our sanctification our justification can be lost by failure to keep the Law.

 

God bless,

William

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11 minutes ago, William said:

For one, your participation, engagement, and fellowship throughout these last days have brought a refreshing new outlook on our community. Last thing I hope for is for you to retract rather than to make a strong presence as much as convenient.

 

On the subject of SDA, they reject the divinity of the 2nd Person of the Trinity. Here's a brief overview from CARM:

 

The Seventh-day Adventist church is a controversial organization. With its founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, they teach that the proper day of worship is Saturday, Jesus is Michael the Archangel, ultimately Satan will bear all of our sins, when a person dies he does not exist anymore, hell is not eternal, and more. They emphasize dietary laws and what many consider to be a legalism, especially since they teach you can lose your salvation. Some consider it a cult and others do not. Nevertheless, it is an organization that needs to be examined. https://carm.org/seventh-day-adventism

 

If the above statement is true in case of every SDA individual then that brings to question whether a person can be saved while rejecting the divinity of Jesus Christ? There are so many things wrong which really need be addressed because all of it touches upon "essential doctrine". Generally, this is why we use the Nicene Creed as a litmus test of orthodoxy. Without I'd feel like a mosquito in a nudest colony. I wouldn't know where to start!

 

Lastly, not meaning to give you any flak for your statements. My mood is rather casual and I was simply approaching you as if we were to have a casual conversation over morning coffee.

 

God bless,

William

 

Sorry, didn't see this last post.

 

Firstly, SDAs believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all members of the Godhead. We believe that Micheal is another name given to Jesus and archangel is one of the titles he bears. When a person dies, he is seen as 'sleeping' as Jesus described the state of Lazarus in John 11:11. SDAs don't believe in an 'eternal hell' and there are times in scripture when the word 'eternal' did not mean forever, like in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. I've not read all of Ellen White's writings, but I doubt she said that her statements on diet are essential to one's salvation.

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3 minutes ago, IchimaruGin said:

We believe that Micheal is another name given to Jesus and archangel is one of the titles he bears.

Do you believe Jesus is a created being as angels such as Satan or specifically the angel Michael?

 

Don't be gun shy. You're not going to be axed from membership because you have sincere inquiry.

 

God bless,

William

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14 minutes ago, William said:

Do you believe Jesus is a created being as angels such as Satan or specifically the angel Michael?

 

Don't be gun shy. You're not going to be axed from membership because you have sincere inquiry.

 

God bless,

William

 

No, we do not believe that Jesus is a created being, and I'm unsure of where this thought originated. I totally agree that we are not justified by keeping the law, however we desire to be like Christ. If we fall into sin, God's grace is there waiting.

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Just now, IchimaruGin said:

 

No, we do not believe that Jesus is a created being, and I'm unsure of where this thought originated. I totally agree that we are not justified by keeping the law, however we desire to be like Christ. If we fall into sin, God's grace is there waiting.

This is why it is best to ask an individual. Rejecting the Nicene Creed often raises a red flag. Michael was an angel. An angel is a created being. Since the angel was named Michael and used as a title for Jesus (according to SDA) perhaps that's where this thought originated?

 

And I couldn't agree more with you in that we "desire" to be like Christ. That very desire was planted in us by regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

 

Thank you for clarifying!

 

God bless,

William

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48 minutes ago, IchimaruGin said:

 

Sorry, didn't see this last post.

 

Firstly, SDAs believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all members of the Godhead. We believe that Micheal is another name given to Jesus and archangel is one of the titles he bears. When a person dies, he is seen as 'sleeping' as Jesus described the state of Lazarus in John 11:11. SDAs don't believe in an 'eternal hell' and there are times in scripture when the word 'eternal' did not mean forever, like in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. I've not read all of Ellen White's writings, but I doubt she said that her statements on diet are essential to one's salvation.

Where in scripture is Christ referred to as Micheal?

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Just now, islandrazor said:

Where in scripture is Christ referred to as Micheal?

 

In Daniel 12:1, it is presumed that the name Micheal is used to refer to Jesus. That is at least my opinion.

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I'm really slow at this. I started at Romans scanning every chapter for scripture, hunting and pecking on the keyboard. You two will come to an agreement before I can organize my notes. Good on you.

True, eternal can mean gone forever, however, Rev, 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

17 minutes ago, IchimaruGin said:

 

In Daniel 12:1, it is presumed that the name Micheal is used to refer to Jesus. That is at least my opinion.

Yeah, assumptions, I had a grade school teacher who had something to say about the word assume. Thanks for your honesty.

 

In Christ

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We exert Self control, or crucify our flesh as a result of our alignment with the Spirit of God, our love and desire to please Him. It is the work of God within us that sanctifies us. Our efforts are to grow in faith, Luke, 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

Even our faith is a gift.

 

Justification;

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

Our work is to walk “after the Spirit” which compels us to draw near unto God.

 

Rom, 8:1 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

Rom, 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

10. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

We put on Christ for sanctification, Rom, 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

Eph, 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.

11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,

15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.

16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

It is God’s armor.

His truth

His righteousness

His Gospel of peace

His gift of faith

His helmet of salvation

 

We are mere vessels. Temples

Gotta love it...

 

In Christ

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14 hours ago, islandrazor said:

I'm really slow at this. I started at Romans scanning every chapter for scripture, hunting and pecking on the keyboard. You two will come to an agreement before I can organize my notes. Good on you.

True, eternal can mean gone forever, however, Rev, 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Yeah, assumptions, I had a grade school teacher who had something to say about the word assume. Thanks for your honesty.

 

In Christ

 

I'm not sure I get what the issue is as it pertains to my conclusion of 'Micheal' being another name for Jesus. If you or anyone knows of any text that contradicts this position, I ask that they present it just as I presented my findings of Mathew 5:17-20, and I will be the first to admit my error and relinquish this belief. There are many texts I am not familiar with and I know this, but that's why we are here... to help each other. The bible says, 'For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:', a method we all employ before forming a conclusion based on scripture.

 

13 hours ago, islandrazor said:

We exert Self control, or crucify our flesh as a result of our alignment with the Spirit of God, our love and desire to please Him. It is the work of God within us that sanctifies us. Our efforts are to grow in faith, Luke, 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

Even our faith is a gift.

 

 

Again, I don't have a problem with this as we agree on this issue. I was initially focused on the observance of the 10 commandments not as a means of obtaining salvation through works, but from a desire to please God.

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