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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Why do most modern Christians only follow 9 of the 10 commandments? [Sabbath Day]

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1 hour ago, Ben Asher said:

(2) Whenever one claims the Bible says XYZ 'go back to the sources using your critical thinking skills to analyze the text for yourself to see whether or not those claims are so.

Number 2 is a major point of contention at times. Some take a rather lazy approach to Scripture and only go by what Scripture "says". A lot of people cannot "perceive" what others are exegeting from a verse, and to complicate matters sometimes for good reason because the inference isn't correct, other times it is correct and the other contentious person either lacks discernment or won't utilize such methods and principles. They reject inference. There's nothing worse than to have sound reasoning for or against a position but to be rejected because another cannot perceive the basis and then accuses another of eisegesis.

 

For example:

"These methods include examples and "necessary inferences" (or "logical conclusions"). Some people say we are obligated to follow only commands. They deny that example and necessary inference are valid, binding ways to determine God's will. They may even say that using such methods constitutes a man-made creed or a human tradition. (Some even have a name for this view. They call it a "new hermeneutic.")

 

The purpose of this study is to examine whether or not "necessary inference" constitutes a Scriptural method to learn God's will.

 

By "necessary inference" we refer to truths that are not directly or expressly stated, but must necessarily follow as a logical conclusion from what is stated. But the term "necessary inference" sometimes confuses people, so we will also refer to that same concept by other terms, such as "Scriptural reasoning" or "necessary, logical conclusions.""

 

 

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On 8/5/2019 at 1:36 PM, Origen said:

When someone prays for God to keep that person humble for all the world to see, such an outward display does not reflect humility.

 

Well that wasn't a prayer, it was a statement. We should all state our willingness for humility.

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13 hours ago, William said:

Some take a rather lazy approach to Scripture and only go by what Scripture "says".

I agree with you on this point @William , it has also been my experience that many understand the the concept Sola Scriptura in very different ways. Some in a lazy way, others in a legalistic way, and so on. I am sure that whenever I use the terms Sola Scriptura (which it's all that often) that I too mean something different and more on the lines with the concept of Ad Fontes.

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Just now, Ben Asher said:

Ad Fontes

Learn something every day! A new term! Perhaps if ever convenient writing out another thread on this subject explaining the process etc may benefit many!

 

God bless,

William

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10 hours ago, deade said:

Well that wasn't a prayer, it was a statement.

It must have been your "I pray God to keep me humble..." comment which mislead me.   Obviously you did not mean it.

crazy bill nye GIF by NETFLIX

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We are still up under all ten commandments the Lord said his word is forever, I believe the fact that the fourth commandment is the key to the mark of the beast most people do not follow it, remember wide road going to hell narrow ( very few) will make it. Look up the word forever  and get it's true meaning, (never ending).

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4 hours ago, Shawdy56 said:

We are still up under all ten commandments the Lord said his word is forever, I believe the fact that the fourth commandment is the key to the mark of the beast most people do not follow it, remember wide road going to hell narrow ( very few) will make it. Look up the word forever  and get it's true meaning, (never ending).

Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
Using the utilities causes the strangers in your city gates to labour.. 

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Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

 

Galtions, 4:9  But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

 

Galations, 2L15  “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

 

 

Mat, 22:37 Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’d 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’e 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

Does baptism save us? Does it fall in the “works category?

Mat,3:13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?" 15 But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.

 

 

Mark, 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

1 Peter, 3:21 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

 

We are saved by the grace of God through the sacrifice of of His son.

 

 

Romans, 14:1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

 

 I attend a Church that meets on Sunday,  not because I'm compelled to, that's when they meet. To me all days are alike.

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11 hours ago, islandrazor said:

Mat, 22:37 Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’d 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’e 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

Does baptism save us? Does it fall in the “works category?

Mat,3:13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?" 15 But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.

 

 

Mark, 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

1 Peter, 3:21 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

 

We are saved by the grace of God through the sacrifice of of His son.

 

 

Romans, 14:1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

 

 I attend a Church that meets on Sunday,  not because I'm compelled to, that's when they meet. To me all days are alike.

Hello razor,

 

Mark 22:37 says to 'Love the Lord thy God with all your heart...', but how does one do this? In John 14:15, Jesus says 'If ye love me, keep my commandments.'. The two commandments which 'all the law and the prophets hang on' is just a summary of the original 10 commandments, with the first four describing how we show our love for God, and the final six highlighting how we show our love to our neighbor. 

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17 hours ago, Becky said:

Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
Exo 20:9  Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
Exo 20:10  But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 
Using the utilities causes the strangers in your city gates to labour.. 

Did the commandment mention 'city gates'? Declaring that the observance of the 4th commandment prohibits one from the use of all utilities on the Sabbath is a bit of a stretch. It is also a poor way of trying to justify a disregard of God's law. Christ challenged the religious leaders on the many traditions and laws they instituted for Sabbath observance, by doing things like healing the sick, and allowing his disciples to pick and eat corn when they were hungry.  He says it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even mentioning how the priests 'worked' during the Sabbath. It is important to note however, that while he remained on earth, he observed the 4th commandment, and kept the 7th day, the Sabbath, holy. As followers of Christ, we should do the same. 

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3 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

Did the commandment mention 'city gates'? Declaring that the observance of the 4th commandment prohibits one from the use of all utilities on the Sabbath is a bit of a stretch. It is also a poor way of trying to justify a disregard of God's law. Christ challenged the religious leaders on the many traditions and laws they instituted for Sabbath observance, by doing things like healing the sick, and allowing his disciples to pick and eat corn when they were hungry.  He says it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even mentioning how the priests 'worked' during the Sabbath. It is important to note however, that while he remained on earth, he observed the 4th commandment, and kept the 7th day, the Sabbath, holy. As followers of Christ, we should do the same. 

Some folks show how sincere they are about keeping the law, when it hits home.. No the passage does not mention "city' gates. Simple common knowledge of scripture as a whole will acknowledge the cities had gates and the LAW was written to the Children of Israel not just one person. 

I read in your post a mix of observing the law and a slight hint of what the true value of the law. 

 

Jas 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 
 

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50 minutes ago, Becky said:

Some folks show how sincere they are about keeping the law, when it hits home.. No the passage does not mention "city' gates. Simple common knowledge of scripture as a whole will acknowledge the cities had gates and the LAW was written to the Children of Israel not just one person. 

I read in your post a mix of observing the law and a slight hint of what the true value of the law. 

 

Jas 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 
 

[the holy spirit] kindles a new flame or fire in us, namely, love and desire to do God’s commandments. 


In the kingdom of grace this should begin and ever grow until the day of judgment, when it shall no longer be called grace or forgiveness, but pure truth and perfect obedience. 


In the meantime he continues to give, forgive, to bear and forbear, until we are laid in our graves. 
 
  ––  Martin Luther 

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6 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

Hello razor,

 

Mark 22:37 says to 'Love the Lord thy God with all your heart...', but how does one do this? In John 14:15, Jesus says 'If ye love me, keep my commandments.'. The two commandments which 'all the law and the prophets hang on' is just a summary of the original 10 commandments, with the first four describing how we show our love for God, and the final six highlighting how we show our love to our neighbor. 

When we bear fruit we love our brother as a natural expression of the Spirit of God within us.

Gal, 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

When we are attached to the root as vines we bear these fruit.

 

Abraham was 400 years approx. before the Mosaic Law. When did he receive grace? What law was he following?

 

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worksheet is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worksheet not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gave him grace

Abraham believed God

God credited it as righteousness

Abraham performed

 

We are saved by grace. We work as a result of our faith in Gods grace.

Our belief and faith in God is our righteousness. We are not slaves.

Gal, 5:3 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Sometimes I think some in the church wish to behave as did the Pharisee's. They desire to attach our salvation to a set of rules. We have freedom in Christ.

James refers to it as the law of liberty. James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

What is James saying?

We’ll be blessed in our work.

Our work doesn’t save us, but if we perform it, it will be fruitful. If we don’t, there is no benefit.

In my opinion this is the point James is trying to make. Not that works save us, but if we build a house we have shelter. If we plant we can eat. If we feed the hungry the get to eat. Like Abraham, He had grace and righteousness when he believed God. He had a son when because of faith and grace he performed the work. James is not contradicting Paul here, he is affirming Paul’s statement that we are saved by grace.

 

15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

 

When God moves us to do something, He will give us the grace. If we expect any results however, we must perform the works, not for salvation but because these things are beneficial unto men. Feed the hungry, take care of the widows and orphans…..

 

Going to church on Saturday, Sunday or Tuesday is beneficial to us not because it’s a certain day, or because we have to, but because we hang out with people who believe as we do and are strengthened and encouraged. We walk with God every day.

 

 

Work has lateral consequences. It effects ourselves and fellow man. God is still God no matter what we do. But He wishes for us to put our faith to work so that the hungry can eat. So that that others can hear the good news etc..

 

In Christ

 

Rom, 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

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If we choose to live by the Sabbath commandment, shouldn't we also live by the first part of that commandment?

6 Days shall you labor...

No 5, 8 hour days

No 4 tens

No 3 twelves

Not ridiculing anyone who chooses to take off Saturday, that's their prerogative, yet, there are two parts to that commandment. Plus all the stipulations regarding the command.

 

In Christ

 

2 Cor, 3:8   Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

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On 8/10/2019 at 12:13 PM, Shawdy56 said:

We are still up under all ten commandments the Lord said his word is forever, I believe the fact that the fourth commandment is the key to the mark of the beast most people do not follow it, remember wide road going to hell narrow ( very few) will make it. Look up the word forever  and get it's true meaning, (never ending).

So the LORD led your father’s out of Egypt?  It says that the 10 commandments are for the people whose father’s God led out of Egypt and made a covenant with.  It is the part immediately before the commandments are listed.  Later on it pronounces a curse on anyone that does not keep “the whole Law” (which people that count Laws tell me is in the hundreds of commands).

 

Fortunately, my father’s were never in Egypt.  They were in Wales.  So I was excluded from the law and the promise until Jesus made a way.  The Jerusalem Council and the Apostle Paul settled the issue very clearly that non-Jewish Christians were not expected to become Jews first in order to become Christians.

 

Forever is only forever if it ever applied to you.  I am not bound in an u breakable bond of marriage to someone that I am not married to and I am not bound by the laws if France while living in the USA and I am not under 10 commandments given to the people God led out of Egypt if I am not one of those people.  Their laws are not given for me and their national promises are not given to me.

 

I obey the LORD of the Sabbath rather than the sabbath law.

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10 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

Did the commandment mention 'city gates'? Declaring that the observance of the 4th commandment prohibits one from the use of all utilities on the Sabbath is a bit of a stretch. It is also a poor way of trying to justify a disregard of God's law. Christ challenged the religious leaders on the many traditions and laws they instituted for Sabbath observance, by doing things like healing the sick, and allowing his disciples to pick and eat corn when they were hungry.  He says it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even mentioning how the priests 'worked' during the Sabbath. It is important to note however, that while he remained on earth, he observed the 4th commandment, and kept the 7th day, the Sabbath, holy. As followers of Christ, we should do the same. 

 

So tell me IchGin [sorry for the contraction], while you are keeping the spirit of God's Shabbat do you do so for salvation or because you delight in it and love God? Don't let anyone dissuade away from doing so. I believe you believe you are saved by grace [a gift from God]. Keeping God's law is just your reasonable service, right?

 

So what are we all arguing over. Some of us keep God's law for God, and some of us don't for God. Whatever we do let us all do it for God. I personally try to keep the spirit of God's law but I find myself falling short too often. Thank God for grace.    

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3 hours ago, atpollard said:

So the LORD led your father’s out of Egypt?  It says that the 10 commandments are for the people whose father’s God led out of Egypt and made a covenant with.  It is the part immediately before the commandments are listed.  Later on it pronounces a curse on anyone that does not keep “the whole Law” (which people that count Laws tell me is in the hundreds of commands).

 

Fortunately, my father’s were never in Egypt.  They were in Wales.  So I was excluded from the law and the promise until Jesus made a way.  The Jerusalem Council and the Apostle Paul settled the issue very clearly that non-Jewish Christians were not expected to become Jews first in order to become Christians.

 

Forever is only forever if it ever applied to you.  I am not bound in an u breakable bond of marriage to someone that I am not married to and I am not bound by the laws if France while living in the USA and I am not under 10 commandments given to the people God led out of Egypt if I am not one of those people.  Their laws are not given for me and their national promises are not given to me.

 

I obey the LORD of the Sabbath rather than the sabbath law.

1 Corinthians 10 with emphasis on 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.

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On 8/12/2019 at 6:33 AM, islandrazor said:

When we bear fruit we love our brother as a natural expression of the Spirit of God within us.

Gal, 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

When we are attached to the root as vines we bear these fruit.

 

Abraham was 400 years approx. before the Mosaic Law. When did he receive grace? What law was he following?

 

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worksheet is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worksheet not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gave him grace

Abraham believed God

God credited it as righteousness

Abraham performed

 

We are saved by grace. We work as a result of our faith in Gods grace.

Our belief and faith in God is our righteousness. We are not slaves.

Gal, 5:3 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Sometimes I think some in the church wish to behave as did the Pharisee's. They desire to attach our salvation to a set of rules. We have freedom in Christ.

James refers to it as the law of liberty. James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

What is James saying?

 

I believe that works is a manifestation of our faith and love for God, and as such our keeping of the commandments is not out of an attempt to gain salvation, but to imitate Christ who did the same and requests that all who love him should do likewise. I also believe that while the 10 commandments were first written by God on Mount Sinai, they were dictated and taught generations before Abraham. How else could God condemn the antediluvians for their sinful ways, or even Cain for killing Abel? Romans 4:15 says that, ' Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.' So if there were no laws or commandments to follow, how could they be punished for their actions?

I think we mostly agree on the topic of 'faith and works' as Abraham not only believed in God, but also kept the law. It is impossible for someone to say that they have faith, but they do not bear any fruit, that is why James 2:14-26 basically says that faith without works is dead.

 

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 

15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. 

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 

20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [h]dead? 

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 

22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 

23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [j]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

On 8/12/2019 at 6:33 AM, islandrazor said:

Going to church on Saturday, Sunday or Tuesday is beneficial to us not because it’s a certain day, or because we have to, but because we hang out with people who believe as we do and are strengthened and encouraged. We walk with God every day.

 

 

Work has lateral consequences. It effects ourselves and fellow man. God is still God no matter what we do. But He wishes for us to put our faith to work so that the hungry can eat. So that that others can hear the good news etc..

 

In Christ

 

Rom, 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

I disagree to an extent with your views on going to church. Yes, we do attend to strengthen and encourage, but also mainly because the 4th commandment directs us to keep the seventh day or Sabbath holy. When Christ was on earth, he walked closer with God than anyone, but still his custom was to attend the synagogue on Sabbath each week. 

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On 8/12/2019 at 9:21 AM, islandrazor said:

If we choose to live by the Sabbath commandment, shouldn't we also live by the first part of that commandment?

6 Days shall you labor...

No 5, 8 hour days

No 4 tens

No 3 twelves

Not ridiculing anyone who chooses to take off Saturday, that's their prerogative, yet, there are two parts to that commandment. Plus all the stipulations regarding the command.

 

In Christ

 

2 Cor, 3:8   Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Where it says, 'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:', it means you are designated six days to do all your labour or work, not that you literally have to work nonstop for 144 hours. How is it okay to neglect the keeping of the Sabbath? Are you saying that your understanding of 2 Corinthians 3:8 absolves everyone of the need to follow the 10 commandments? 

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4 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

I disagree to an extent with your views on going to church. Yes, we do attend to strengthen and encourage, but also mainly because the 4th commandment directs us to keep the seventh day or Sabbath holy. When Christ was on earth, he walked closer with God than anyone, but still his custom was to attend the synagogue on Sabbath each week. 

That is the beauty of Christs work. He called us to freedom, not to be again in bondage to the law. “By the works of the Law shall no man be saved.”

 

1 Cor, 10:23 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but not everything is constructive.

 

2 Cor, 3:15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

 

I believe you are a brother, and am pleased with your defense of scripture. Peter after walking with God in the flesh those years still didn’t get it. Paul, still a bit insecure, caved in and had fellow brothers circumcised.

 

Gal, 2:4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. 5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. 6 But from those who were of high reputation (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—well, those who were of reputation contributed nothing to me.

 

19 For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

 

Christ fulfilled the Law… while He was alive, and, He lived in old testament times. The traditions Christ and the disciples followed were because they were still under the law until Christ died. “For a testament to be in effect there must first be the death of the testator.”

 

I believe one day to be the same as another, if however I were to visit the church you attend, It will be on the day that you hold service. And if anyone gets together on a Wednesday for whatever reason, That is the day I will attend their service.

 

Gal, 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

 

Gal, 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.

 

James, 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Who can say they've never stumbled on one point? Only Christ.

12. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

1 Peter 2:16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as servants of God.

 

John, 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

 

What a Friend we have.

 

In Christ

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3 hours ago, IchimaruGin said:

Where it says, 'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:', it means you are designated six days to do all your labour or work, not that you literally have to work nonstop for 144 hours. How is it okay to neglect the keeping of the Sabbath? Are you saying that your understanding of 2 Corinthians 3:8 absolves everyone of the need to follow the 10 commandments? 

Perhaps. But, that is in how one would choose to read it.

 

Corinthians 3:8 absolves everyone of the need to follow the 10 commandments?

Of course not. Christs death and resurrection did that. The other rules are reiterated, and are really just common sense, "Love your brother" behaviors.

 

In Christ

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On 8/11/2019 at 10:44 PM, William said:

1 Corinthians 10 with emphasis on 1 Corinthians 10:1-2.

[1Co 10:1-6 NASB] 1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. 6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

 

Empasis on 1 Corinthians 10:6. 🙂

Those "our fathers" were Paul and the other Jews' fathers ... my fathers were Welsh blacksmiths who managed to die in their own wilderness for their own sins and not the sins of Israel coming out of Egypt.

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1 hour ago, atpollard said:

[1Co 10:1-6 NASB] 1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. 6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

 

Empasis on 1 Corinthians 10:6. 🙂

Those "our fathers" were Paul and the other Jews' fathers ... my fathers were Welsh blacksmiths who managed to die in their own wilderness for their own sins and not the sins of Israel coming out of Egypt.

Segregation. So you're suggesting Paul is not addressing Gentiles here but only Jews? Paul is not addressing the church but his intended audience is the Jews? Paul is only addressing Jews in Corinth?

 

Our fathers is thus not the fathers of our church but only of Jews for our example?

 

Seriously, bro, this is the point I'd abandon all dispensationalism and lean away from Baptist theology towards Reformed Covenant Theology.

 

Why would Paul even mention that our fathers were baptized into Moses?

 

Were the very things that were evil which we are not to crave our father's baptism?

 

God bless,

William

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On 8/11/2019 at 3:05 PM, atpollard said:

Fortunately, my father’s were never in Egypt.  They were in Wales.  So I was excluded from the law and the promise until Jesus made a way. 

Ha ha.

 

Might be kinda fun though.

Fava Beans and Falafel, Kushar, Baladi Bread

Pyramids

Crowded tour buses

Heat stroke…

 

I understand Egyptian cotton is high quality, Maybe pick up some gaudy, touristy shirts.

 

They must make a killing selling sunglasses out there on the sand.

 

Jet skis on the Nile?

 

In Christ

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Hey anyone here that wishes to honor the Sabbath, good on you. It's just not a do or die command unless you are doing it for salvation along with every other law. Then, well. I don't believe anyone here would condemn you, not that, that would matter. God won't ask me or anyone else on that day for our opinion.

 

Exodus 35:2 “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the Lord; whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. 3 You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day.”

 

We kindle a fire when we shower with gas, cook, drive to church, heat our home.

Gonna be cold on Saturday, first at home then again in church.

Sounds rough in winter for many. Maybe a mass Christian migration to warmer climes.

Before electricity did Jews and Christians just stumble around in the dark? No candles or oil lamps.

 

The letter really does kill. But the Spirit gives life.

Thank you Father for our freedom in Christ.

 

Perhaps, God intentionally instituted the Law so strictly, to emphasize that no one could achieve perfection apart from Him, by His grace and sacrifice. His work.

I love Him for it.

 

In the old testament I'm given evidence of the character of God. What He saw in men of old. How He related. What He appreciated and abhorred.

Whatever we do, let's do unto the Lord, in humility and in faith.

 

Personally I appreciate a little lighthearted humor also, you know, the joy of the Lord kinda thing.

 

In Christ

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