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Terry jones

Is the Word of God flawed?

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Terry jones

Many christians believe that all translations of the Bible contain errors. If ALL translations of the Bible contain errors where is the truth?

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William
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Many christians believe that all translations of the Bible contain errors. If ALL translations of the Bible contain errors where is the truth?

 

Hi Terry,

 

What makes them believe all translations of the Bible contain errors? And what kind of errors are they talking? Not only translations but interpretations can be wrong. They can only be wrong when held to a standard other than themselves. My question then is by what standard are they being held to?

 

God bless,

William

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Terry jones

They believe that, due to man writing the bible/interpreting original Scripture they have to contain errors because man is not perfect. They don't identify the errors but say on the basis of man being involved they must contain errors. They say there is no perfect version of the bible, whether you read the KJV or the new international version or any other version they are all flawed because man is flawed. They say there is the truth in the bible but there are also some honest mistakes. I would say the standards these people use are the standards of the world as opposed to the standards of God. How widespread is this belief? I've come across it on numerous occasions.

 

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William
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They believe that, due to man writing the bible/interpreting original Scripture they have to contain errors because man is not perfect. They don't identify the errors but say on the basis of man being involved they must contain errors. They say there is no perfect version of the bible, whether you read the KJV or the new international version or any other version they are all flawed because man is flawed. They say there is the truth in the bible but there are also some honest mistakes. I would say the standards these people use are the standards of the world as opposed to the standards of God. How widespread is this belief? I've come across it on numerous occasions.

 

Hi Terry,

 

Interpreting "original" Scripture?

 

And if man is not perfect making anything he does erroneous why would we believe them? Why does the standard not apply to them?

 

If they can't produce an example backed by evidence then is that not slander?

 

You may want to congratulate them for doing the work of their father. Satan was a slanderer from the very beginning.

 

And to answer your question, this is actually very common among liberal churches. There you'll find many standards.

 

God bless,

William

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Terry jones

Thanks William, I'm encouraged to know that not all have fallen for this lie. It's a shame so many have though and worse still is the amount of church leaders who claim it to be true. They undermine the very foundations of the church and lead others into the same folly. It has made me sick to the stomach listening to these people to be honest. I've congratulated some of them just as you say, no doubt I'll get some hate mail but if nobody stands up for the Word of God they will just carry on as usual.That is of course until God puts an end to it :)

 

Take care mate and God Bless you,

 

Terry

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Cloud

The bible contains translation issues as it was first originally written in Hebrew. This may be true but they are slim and few. And in that respect the bible is still to be interpreted as Gods Holy Word therefore it's my belief that what it says can be interpreted though isn't meant to be interpreted all the time. I still believe it's meant in a literal sense.

 

Also the authors of the bible were inspired by the holy spirit to write it. And they were chosen by God to write it. I contemplate many times about how it could be possibly that they were just ordinary people. But that couldn't be further from truth. The writers of the bible were receiving direct orders from the Lord within the Holy Spirit. No fact can prove this to be true but it's my belief that it is indeed very true. Thanks @Terry jones

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Terry jones
The bible contains translation issues as it was first originally written in Hebrew.

 

It is insane for a professing Christian to say the Word of God they read has errors in it. You contradict the very thing you claim to believe!

 

Proverbs 30:5-6King James Version (KJV)

 

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

 

 

 

 

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William
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The bible contains translation issues as it was first originally written in Hebrew. This may be true but they are slim and few. And in that respect the bible is still to be interpreted as Gods Holy Word therefore it's my belief that what it says can be interpreted though isn't meant to be interpreted all the time. I still believe it's meant in a literal sense.

 

Also the authors of the bible were inspired by the holy spirit to write it. And they were chosen by God to write it. I contemplate many times about how it could be possibly that they were just ordinary people. But that couldn't be further from truth. The writers of the bible were receiving direct orders from the Lord within the Holy Spirit. No fact can prove this to be true but it's my belief that it is indeed very true. Thanks @Terry jones

 

Again, one must prove this. Otherwise it seems that a person is appealing to a group of people and putting faith in that group as to whether it is true. For example, if a liberal unbeliever claims that then you can either take their word for it or prove otherwise.

 

I keep hearing people claim there are errors, but they rarely clarify the kind of errors. Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies? No!!! I haven't run into any.

 

Now if you want to go into some kind of copy error in the original manuscripts then I'm all ears. Luckily there are over 20 thousand manuscripts by which to compare.

 

I think the main point to walk away with is that if someone says there is a translation error then they better know Hebrew and Greek better than the Translators. There are different kind of translations, for example, word for word, thought for thought etc. One must recognize whether they begin with giving God the benefit of the doubt or someone else. Not to mention we can parallel many translations together and see for our selves whether there is continuity or disconnect. If for example, someone were to turn to the Queen James Bible, I can easily compare in the English all versions of any given verse with that one particular translation/interpretation and make a case for or against from there. Though I think if one did know and study Hebrew/Greek that they would be far more educated in making an argument in defense of orthodoxy then someone that does not.

 

I believe the Bible is free from error and our only trustworthy source of inspired revelation.

 

Still waiting for those errors!

 

God bless,

William

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wfredeemed009

 

 

Still waiting for those errors!

 

God bless,

William

 

 

The only error to be found is made by the one who claims there are errors without any proof.

 

 

 

 

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Terry jones

If you believe the Scripture you read is flawed then you must accept that Jesus is flawed as He is the Word. If you believe the unflawed truth only exists in Hebrew and Greek you have given the devil the greatest foothold he could possibly have in your life, you give him the same avenue of deceit he used in the beginning "Did God really say this?" The authority of God cannot be usurped but you can deliver authority to him in your own life [h=1]Matthew 24:35King James Version (KJV)[/h] 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

 

 

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Cloud

 

It is insane for a professing Christian to say the Word of God they read has errors in it. You contradict the very thing you claim to believe!

 

Proverbs 30:5-6King James Version (KJV)

 

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

 

 

 

 

I still believe there are translation issues, specifically as an example when it says the word Fear. The Fear of God. To me I believe in Hebrew it was meant as Respect rather than fear. This is just an example.

 

There are other examples that can't really come to mind at the moment. But nothing translated is every going to be exact. That's just the truth about it. You cannot translate any book and be exact in the translation. I am a professing Christian and have been for many years. I speak from the holy spirit when I tell you that it's not exact. I wasn't trying to say there were errors in it. Your putting those words in my mouth. When did I say there were errors in the bible? I simply said there were translation issues and I still believe there are very few but some translation issues.

 

You cannot translate a book and have 2 different languages mean exactly the same. I understand the devote Christian turning away from anything that isn't God. I am just like you in that aspect. However from devotion and experience I've learned that though God still intended for the english bible to be written the way it is there are still some translations that did not make it to the english text version.

 

I never said God didn't intend for the English bible to be the way it is either. But I still believe it does not have the exact translation. What's so bad about that?

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wfredeemed009

 

I still believe there are translation issues, specifically as an example when it says the word Fear. The Fear of God. To me I believe in Hebrew it was meant as Respect rather than fear. This is just an example.

 

There are other examples that can't really come to mind at the moment. But nothing translated is every going to be exact. That's just the truth about it. You cannot translate any book and be exact in the translation. I am a professing Christian and have been for many years. I speak from the holy spirit when I tell you that it's not exact. I wasn't trying to say there were errors in it. Your putting those words in my mouth. When did I say there were errors in the bible? I simply said there were translation issues and I still believe there are very few but some translation issues.

 

You cannot translate a book and have 2 different languages mean exactly the same. I understand the devote Christian turning away from anything that isn't God. I am just like you in that aspect. However from devotion and experience I've learned that though God still intended for the english bible to be written the way it is there are still some translations that did not make it to the english text version.

 

I never said God didn't intend for the English bible to be the way it is either. But I still believe it does not have the exact translation. What's so bad about that?

 

 

You are correct in claiming the translation of Greek or Hebrew to English isn't​ Perfect. However, The Word of God itself is without flaw right?

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faither
If you believe the Scripture you read is flawed then you must accept that Jesus is flawed as He is the Word. If you believe the unflawed truth only exists in Hebrew and Greek you have given the devil the greatest foothold he could possibly have in your life, you give him the same avenue of deceit he used in the beginning "Did God really say this?" The authority of God cannot be usurped but you can deliver authority to him in your own life Matthew 24:35King James Version (KJV)

 

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

 

 

 

Hi terry,

 

It's notable to submit to you that the Greek and Hebrew had no chapter and verse , no punctuation. Every Bible that has been translated from Greek to English is punctuated differently , thus giving each of them a possible different understanding. So which English text are you basing your point upon?

 

It's vital to go to the earliest texts to understand what the author is trying to communicate. But more important one must be "in Christ" in order to understand or to claim the promises that are in the Scriptures.

 

Here is an example , The Greek word "pisteuo" is the verb form of the noun "pistis". In English translations , Pistis is where we get our word Faith , the noun. I think pistis is used around 240 times in the NT. Now when they went to translate the corresponding verb , Pisteuo ,the English language has no word for the verb form of Faith. The words the English should have had are Faithe , faither , and faithing. This is really important because pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT alone.

 

So what would you do if you were the translator ? Arguably the most important word in the history of mankind , just not the Scriptures , "pisteuo" can't be translated into the English texts. (Remember , we are saved by Grace through faith (pisteuo). So whatever they choose to translate the Greek word pisteuo into English texts is ultimately how people will understand "This is what we must do to be saved".

 

The translators chose the words believe, believer, and believing to translate pisteuo into the English texts. Now pisteuo being a verb , an action word . A verb is an act , based upon a "belief" ,sustained by confidense. So the translators accually translated the definition of "a verb" , rather than the definition of pisteuo. The most accurate definition of pisteuo is found in the Vines Expository dictionary. Pisteuo, is" A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender." Much different than believing wouldn't you agree ?

 

Anyway , this mistranslation of Scripture has completely changed the act , based upon a belief, sustained by confidense , that will result in being "In Christ". But do i understand this to be contrary to Gods will ? Absolutely not ! i think it's been done for a specific reason known only to God Himself.

 

I finish by saying that this mistranslation is so rooted into our Bibles and churches , that as i showd you how it was mistranslated into the English , it's also now mistranslated back out of the English into thee Greek . That si as long as your reading it in "English". The Greek has the word pisteuo, which is Faith ,"or continually surrendering our lives to Christ" , or the opposite , they add an "A" to piteuo and get the Greek word "Apisteuo". Apisteuo is is the Greek word for Faith moving away from God , in reverse.

 

The Greek language doesn't even have a word in their dictionary for the English words believe ,believer ,and believing. "If you check me on that remember if your reading an English text , it will mistranslate pisteuo back out of the english into the Greek. I think that the Greeks did not have a word for believe ,believer ,or believing, "believing in God" because they didn't recognize that such a state of being even existed. The human being was either in a state of pisteuo , moving closer to God , or apisteuo , moving away from God. There was no neutral or middle ground by which someone could only "believe' and not commit to one way or another.

 

Thanks for this topic.

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Cloud

 

 

You are correct in claiming the translation of Greek or Hebrew to English isn't​ Perfect. However, The Word of God itself is without flaw right?

 

No, I do not believe it is flawed in the least bit. Not in the eyes of God. However how one may perceive it could be flawed to ones own perception. That's all I was saying.

 

The way the bible is in English is how God intended it to be. I believe that with my whole heart.

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Terry jones
It's vital to go to the earliest texts to understand what the author is trying to communicate.

 

The author is God Himself, nobody needs to be able to read Hebrew or Greek to understand Him. 50 scholars took years in prayer and fasting in translating thousands of original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into the king James version. These men did the job right. Luke 24:45King James Version (KJV)

 

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

Did God not know there would be people unable to read Hebrew or Greek, did He not consider this? Is He such an inept God that He has somehow allowed man to make a make of mess of His own Words? Has He opened your eyes to see His Word is flawed?

 

Congratulations Mr. Faither.

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faither

 

The author is God Himself, nobody needs to be able to read Hebrew or Greek to understand Him. 50 scholars took years in prayer and fasting in translating thousands of original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into the king James version. These men did the job right. Luke 24:45King James Version (KJV)

 

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

Did God not know there would be people unable to read Hebrew or Greek, did He not consider this? Is He such an inept God that He has somehow allowed man to make a make of mess of His own Words? Has He opened your eyes to see His Word is flawed?

 

Congratulations Mr. Faither.

 

 

 

I've experienced the Spiritual understanding i think your referring to. I make a real good argument that today's Faith or "pisteuo" would work as good or better before the 1500"s when the written word started to become public and that mistranslation of "pisteuo' wouldn't be an issue. . I also had been given a teacher by God that has the specific gift of perfecting saints. ( fluent in Greek and Hebrew). Eph. 4,11-13. Are you under the impression you are supposed to be your own teacher ? Or the Holy Spirit teaches you personally ? If you have the gift of teaching and understanding Gods Word , it's to perfect the saints. I see the "flaws"as you've stated , to be stumbling blocks , just as Christ Himself is a stumbling block. Thats what i try to do for others is to point out those stumbling blocks. If i don't and they fall , their blood is on my hands. If i warn them and they don't take heed , their blood is on their hands.

 

You didn't tell me which English version is the "correct" one?

 

 

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Terry jones

 

If you don't have the Words you don't have the Spirit.

 

John 6:63 King James Version (KJV)

 

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

 

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faither

If you don't have the Words you don't have the Spirit.

 

John 6:63 King James Version (KJV)

 

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

 

I guess i don't understand your argument. The Greek is the most precise language known to man and is what our NT was given to us in. Those are the words that Christ spoke to us , why wouldn't you want to know exactly what he meant by having "the Spirit and the best understanding of His Words " by resourcing the documents closest to the ones that recorded His exact Words.

 

The Hebrew is possibly one of the worst languages on the planet , with English being close behind.

 

blessings to you through His Spirit.

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Terry jones
why wouldn't you want to know exactly what he meant by having "the Spirit and the best understanding of His Words " by resourcing the documents closest to the ones that recorded His exact Words.

 

It was done by the 50 men God chose over 400 years ago.

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William
Staff

 

It was done by the 50 men God chose over 400 years ago.

 

So what of the 1500-1600 years before then?

 

Is your personal English translation the KJV? Mine is the ESV. But if if I go back to archaic English, I prefer the Geneva and not the KJV.

 

God bless,

William

 

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faither

 

It was done by the 50 men God chose over 400 years ago.

 

Bottom line terry, the Father should be able to draw called out ones to Christ. And those called out ones should be able to respond in Faith and faithing that will result in having the Holy Spirit sealed in them. All this "with out" having the written Word to follow.

 

This is what had to happen before the 1500's for most people. And what they did back then can still work today. "IF" the called out ones really know what Faith and faithing is.

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Origen
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There seems to be a lot of misconception concerning translation (i.e. the history, methodology, the languages). Translations run the gambit from more literal to less literal, from dynamic equivalence to formal equivalence. No translation is wholly one or the other. The fact is a translation is only as good as the training, knowledge, and skills of the translator(s).

 

As for the KJV:

 

(1) There were 53 translators for the KJV. There were 6 teams which translated different sections of the Scriptures.

 

(2) In 1604 the Hampton Court Conference was convened and King James ordered a new translation of the Bible be made. Each team handed in their work as it was completed. By 1608 all the groups were done. Thus it took less than four years for the translators to finish.

 

(3) The KJV translators did not use any manuscripts. They used printed editions of the Greek New Testament complied by Erasmus, Stephanus, and Beza.

 

(4) Those printed editions were not based on thousands of manuscripts but at best 17 by the time of Beza.

 

(5) The KJV consulted other translations. They used both the LXX and the Vulgate and they also consulted the Bishop's Bible, Tyndale, Mathew's Bible, Coverdale Bible, the Great Bible, and the Geneva Bible.

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Terry jones

If you consider what English translations are readily available today for people seeking the truth the KJV stands as the oldest. The accessibility and use of it over the past 400+ years pays tribute to the value God places on it and despite the old language it still remains read and trusted by millions of people. If the KJV was not faithful to God and exactly how He wants His Words presented He would have ensured it disappeared a long time ago. I only trust the King James version and will explain why.

 

New "translations" have changed His Word, these are not errors or "honest mistakes" they are culturally friendly changes.

 

For example,

 

James 3:1 king James 1611.

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

 

There are many “translations” today that have changed “brethren” to “brothers and sisters” as though this relates to both man and woman despite the fact that these same “bibles” include the instruction in 1 Timothy 2:12 that contradicts this. Is a woman/sister permitted to teach or not?

 

1 Timothy 2:12

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

The “translations” that have added “Sisters” to James 3:1 clearly state that a woman is permitted to teach or be a master in church in the same way a man is. There is no distinction made between man and woman. Any normal minded person would be confused by this contradiction in the “word” of God. Why would the Word of God say in one breath that a woman is not permitted to teach and in the next breath say she is? There is no such a contradiction in the KJV. There are many more examples in new translations that have been changed in an effort to become gender neutral. What this actually means is Jesus who is the Word has been emasculated in these new “bibles”. A quick comparison of what was originally Written to what is now written will show this clearly. Here are a couple more examples,

 

John 15:13

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

Changed to,

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:14 KJV

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

 

Changed to;

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed.

 

This has occurred due to the lack of respect for the Word of God and lack of faith in what He says. In effect the Word has been put on trial for discrimination and found guilty. This changing of His word to suite ourselves is the abomination that Scripture talks about.These words stand where they ought not, let the reader understand.

 

Mark 13:14King James Version (KJV)

 

14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

 

 

The book I wrote explains more.

 

http://thetruthrevealed.zohosites.eu/

Edited by Terry jones

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William
Staff

Couldn't resist:

 

 

bd99eaf12e4a8ca33230b412e46fbcb0.thumb.png.07acc14aaf8693075f6a3de1d5cfa40f.png

 

God bless,

William

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faither
Couldn't resist:

 

[ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tbd99eaf12e4a8ca33230b412e46fbcb0.png Views:\t1 Size:\t83.3 KB ID:\t35765","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"35765","data-size":"custom","height":"637","title":"bd99eaf12e4a8ca33230b412e46fbcb0.png","width":"556"}[/ATTACH]

 

 

God bless,

William

 

The Greek word "pisteuo" was mistranslated into every English text. Simply because the English has no word for the verb form of Faith .

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