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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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Judge not, that you be not judged.

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Judge not, that you be not judged.

 

Has anyone ever quoted this when you spoke out against something that was morally wrong? I have met people who know this verse but are apparently unaware of anything else the Bible teaches. I recently read a post on a blog called altruisco that gives what I believe is a very good explanation of what the verse really means.

 

https://altruistico.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/what-does-the-bible-mean-that-we-are-not-to-judge-others/

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4926499_DonotJudge.jpg.6975f95e0cf290b6262d4c1bd0f6e008.jpg

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Well I always heard it as "judge not, lest ye be judged" but I am pretty sure they are the same thing. I always took it mean what I think everyone did, as a way of avoiding judgement towards others and writing off an evil deed. Interesting article, but I must admit it went a little bit over my head and I had to adjust the eyes once or twice. That said, though, when he brought up the notion of "right judgement" it started to make a little more sense. Interesting take on it, and thanks for sharing.

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If i went in front of a judge and he told me i was wrong for what i was doing but didnt give a penalty he wouldnt be judgi g, would he? A judge says because you did this, this will happen. Without consequence there is no judgement. The jury is not the judge and they are the ones that say if you are wrong or not. It is the one who imposes sentance that is judging.

 

If i say you will go to hell if you are a homosexual i am not judging you, God is. I am simply telling you God's judgement. If i harrass you because you are homosexual then i an judging you.

 

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If i went in front of a judge and he told me i was wrong for what i was doing but didnt give a penalty he wouldnt be judgi g, would he? A judge says because you did this, this will happen. Without consequence there is no judgement. The jury is not the judge and they are the ones that say if you are wrong or not. It is the one who imposes sentance that is judging.

 

If i say you will go to hell if you are a homosexual i am not judging you, God is. I am simply telling you God's judgement. If i harrass you because you are homosexual then i an judging you.

 

Good way of putting it. We are not to Judge in such way by determining his/her eternal destiny. Even a United States Judge traditionally says, "May God have mercy upon your soul" when sentencing a person to death. Heaven or Hell is for God to decide, for He has complete knowledge. One thing is for certain, whether God exercises Mercy or Justice, Wrath or Grace, the Saints shall praise Him!

 

God bless,

William

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On 8/21/2016 at 4:55 PM, William said:

One thing is for certain, whether God exercises Mercy or Justice, Wrath or Grace, the Saints shall praise Him!

I tend to praise God more for his mercy and grace. He sure has given to me and done for me way more than I deserve.

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30 minutes ago, Erik said:

I tend to praise God more for his mercy and grace. He sure has given to me and done for me way more than I deserve.

Amen!

 

The thing about God's wrath which believers do not experience is that though we do not experience it we can see it around us in society. God’s wrath is revealed as He hands men over to evil Rom. 1:24-32. A person’s increasing wickedness is proof of God’s judgment. Humanity’s guilt is plain in that they not only do such things, they also approve of them Romans 1:28-32.

 

A lot of people like you and I Erik tend to focus on God's mercy, grace, and love while we reluctantly question whether a hardship in our lives may be due to God's chastisement Psalm 6:1; Psalm 90:7. However, we need to be observant and understand God's anger and wrath for it has a place in our lives. The Book of Revelation, in Revelation 6:16, tells us about “the wrath of the Lamb.” And as we may glean from biblical examples some anger may be righteous and applied in our lives.

 

B.B. Warfield said,

“A man who cannot be angry cannot be merciful. The person who cannot be angry at things that thwart God's purposes and God's love towards people is living too far away from his fellow men ever to feel anything positive towards them.”

 

A lot of people today unwittingly water down God's holiness by denying His wrath towards sinners in the hands of an angry God. We see throughout Scripture God's wrath displayed against Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanites, and ultimately what will unfold at the end's epicenter or the book of Revelation.

 

Romans 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

 

Quote

 

John Piper:

 

In Daniel 12:2, God promises that the day is coming when “many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Jesus spoke of the eternity of God’s wrath in numerous ways. Consider three. First, in Mark 9:43–48 he said,

 

And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

 

So twice he calls the fires of hell “unquenchable”; that is, they will never go out. The point of that is to say soberly and terribly that if you go there, there will be no relief forever and ever.

 

Second, in Mark 3:29 Jesus says, “Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.” This is a startling statement. It rules out all those thoughts of universalism that say, “Even if there is a hell, one day it will be emptied after people have suffered long enough.” No. That is not what Jesus said. He said that there is sin for which there will never be forgiveness. There are people who will never be saved. They are eternally lost.

 

Third, in Matthew 25, he told the parable of the sheep and the goats to illustrate the way it will be when Jesus comes back to save his people and punish the unbelievers. In verse 41 he says, “Then [the king] will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’” And to make crystal clear that eternal means everlasting he says again in verse 46, “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” So the punishment is eternal in the same way that life is eternal. Both mean: never-ending, that is, everlasting. It is an almost incomprehensible thought. Oh let it have its full effect on you. Jesus did not intend to speak this way in vain.

 

After the teaching of Jesus, the apostle Paul put the eternity of God’s wrath this way in 2 Thessalonians 1:7–9:

 

The Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.

 

Destruction does not mean obliteration or annihilation, any more than the destruction of the enemy army means the defeated soldiers do not exist anymore. It means they are undone. They are defeated. They are stripped of all that makes life pleasant. They are made miserable forever.

 

Finally, the great apostle of love, the apostle John, who gives us the sweet words of John 3:16, used the strongest language for the eternal duration of the wrath of God: “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night” (Revelation 14:11). And Revelation 19:3: “The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.” These are the strongest phrases for eternity that biblical writers could use.

 

So the first thing we must say about the wrath of God at the end of the age that comes upon those who do not embrace Christ as Savior and Lord is that it is eternal — it will never end.

 

 

 

This is not something many of us wish on our worst enemies. It should cause an urgency in our lives to reach out to others in evangelism and missions. We should be reaching people with the Good news after explaining to them the bad news of the Gospel (God is Good). It is not our place to water down the wrath of God or the consequences of denying Jesus Christ.

 

 

God bless,

William

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33 minutes ago, William said:

It is not our place to water down the wrath of God or the consequences of denying Jesus Christ.

Amen. Nor should we proclaim a wrath that is not his. The vengence of eternal fire will destroy those who deny Christ. Jude 1:7

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49 minutes ago, Erik said:

Amen. Nor should we proclaim a wrath that is not his. The vengence of eternal fire will destroy those who deny Christ. Jude 1:7

This Thanksgiving I received a knock on my door around 7 am in the morning. Someone totally "destroyed" my car in the night and then took off (hit and run). They actually hit the car so hard it was moved around 2 feet from where it was parked. It was totaled by the Insurance company:

 

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20181122_070741.thumb.jpg.bf2154c4e845200981b64090f1148f5c.jpg

 

Anyhoot, I chuckled when I thought about other threads on this forum and redefining what destruction or destroyed means. Good news is that I purchased a new car, a brand new Honda Accord. Although I was forced into a new car purchase 4 years ahead of what I planned, I received current market value for the car at full retail which was double what I would of received if I traded in my 2012 Hyundai:

 

20181129_083600.thumb.jpg.0fca542a66880d72c92ef87e3410caf3.jpg

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Wod that sucks -  thank God for insurance.  When you think of how the unbelievers will be "destroyed", God gave us an example so we don't have to guess what he meant. Sodom and Gomorrah. Unbelievers will be destroyed by the eternal fire in the same way. Now that's wrath!

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51 minutes ago, Faber said:

William,

 

 Since your car was destroyed why do I still see it? I though it would be nonexistent. 

throw it in an eternal fire that consumes it completely and I'm pretty sure you will not see it.

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 Thus being destroyed in this scenario and as pointed out elsewhere from the Bible does not necessitate nonexistence.

 

 In fact, (and I mentioned this already) despite using the Greek word for being blotted out (exaleiphō) in Colossians 2:14 concerning the decrees against us, it is never used in reference to the state of the unsaved after death.

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