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Aedaz

I am convinced I may be reprobate...

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I have been dealing with this off and on for a little over 4 years now.

 

To make a long story short, I had an experience 4 years ago in which I truly believed I was saved. I became aware of my hopelessness to save myself and, fearing going to Hell, I cried out to God. And after a few days I just found myself believing Christ paid it all for me. I don't know where it came from - it just started happening. And I'd spend all day and night in prayer and in the word - just for the sake of experiencing Christ. Well, a couple months later I went back in to my sin and began serving my flesh and worldly pleasures all over again. I was back at square 1. Only now, I'm probably even worse off than that. And so certain parts of scripture, like Hebrews 6 and 10 have been gnawing at me since then.

 

I have talked with people off and on about this. I've heard all the warnings, and I've heard all the promises of hope if I submit to Christ. But I have willfully continued on in sin. I know the sin I commit as I'm doing it. But I always do it anyway. I clean up for a little while, but I always fall back down without fail. I become numb to my sin until the fear of going to Hell is strong enough for me to reach out and try to get help - then the cycle starts all over again. So I don't know if it's worth trying to reach out again. I've been talking with someone, but I don't know if they get what I'm trying to say.I'm not good at communicating, and stumble over my words to the point where it all just sounds like nonsense coming out of my mouth.

 

I have continuously, willfully, even gladly abused the mercy of Christ. I do not know if I'm saved, but I really don't think I am. So let's just go with that. I'm not saved. And yet, I feel content? Why? I should be terrified, but I'm not. I'd rather just continue on like I have been. I'm worried that I'm not worried. Now, time and time again people have said "well, you are concerned about your salvation, so you aren't reprobate". What I'm concerned with is being left hopeless; being left with Hell alone. That doesn't mean anything. I'm just a sinner who has a better idea about where he's headed than most others. My concern is not that Christ is not big enough to forgive my sin, but that I have so hardened my heart that I am unable to truly repent and put my hope in Christ. The past 4 years could be evidence of this. It's not the size of my sin - it's the nature of it. (Again, Heb. 6 and 10).

 

MY MAIN QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS: I'm not even sure how to believe on Christ. If Christ died for only a select few (and I believe he did), then for me to believe I would have to presume I am in fact one of those wouldn't I? I shouldn't expect hope at this point, but is there any left for someone like me? I don't think I have any real sense of guilt for my sins. I think it really is just a fear of going to Hell - which itself waxes and wanes, so to speak. If I have nothing - not even a right sense of my sin, or genuine guilt of any degree - can I still be saved? Must I first seek to make my heart soft, and then seek Christ? Should I even bother seeking Christ at this point? Do I just come to him, lacking any guilt or shame, and just ask him for mercy anyway? I don't know what it is I truly desire in my heart of hearts, but I just recognize in my mind that I should probably be seeking Christ, or else I go to Hell. I've done that time after time after time, and nothing ever came of it (though my own fault of course). If I did it again, why would it be any different this time?

 

I just don't see Christ being able to save me right now. And like I said, this isn't anything new. I had a crisis a few months ago, met someone who talked me through a lot of stuff. I changed my ways for a while, but here I am again delving headfirst in sin. Every time I find myself in this spot I am more and more convinced that I'm a truly hopeless case. It probably isn't proper for me to be here asking all this, but I thought I'd try. What do you think of all this?

 

P.S: Before anyone mentions it, I have talked with my own pastor about it. He is a good pastor, but I don't think he has the right idea about what being reprobate means and so I'm not sure how helpful he would be.

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Hi Aedaz,

 

Quick question to begin with. Which Presbyterian church do you belong?

 

God bless,

William

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hi aedaz,

 

quick question to begin with. Which presbyterian church do you belong?

 

God bless,

william

 

pca.

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Hello Aedaz,

 

I'd like to encourage you further to share more of your issues. I hope that you find fellowship here and it is a fruitful experience.

 

So you're a Five Point Calvinist? Are you studied on the doctrine of Total Depravity: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...ity-verse-list

 

The reason why I ask is because there should be no question as to whether you're a sinner and in "dire" need of a savior.

 

You ask whether you should seek for a softened heart: https://www.christforums.org/forum/c...eneration-mean

 

This is not something accomplished by men. But to answer your question, if Regeneration has not taken place yet, you should pray for Regeneration. It is my opinion though since you desire God that you indeed show fruits of Regeneration.

 

I think it would help to self examine yourself and identify whether your doubts are emotional or intellectual in nature? Once you have done that, perhaps we can help you more? Fellowship can even help fan those dying embers and renew your passion for the Lord. Something we sometimes neglect as we get caught up in the world. Sometimes young members neglect their spiritual life, and we sense they are not growing in the faith or their convictions strengthened, they think God has abandoned them, when in fact they may be receiving conviction drawing them towards the church community.

 

God bless,

William

 

 

 

I have understood all of that, and I have prayed for regeneration time and time again. Yet I continuously, and probably will continue to, sin willfully. My concerns don't just come from how I feel. I've been working through this for 4 years. I simply look at my life, and compare it with scripture. And it doesn't add up to what a Christian's life should look like. Not only that, but it seems at times to reflect that of someone who is reprobate. I think a good illustration to what my life looks like is Pharaoh in Exodus. Each time Moses came to him he hardened his heart, until about the 5th(?) time it started saying that God hardened his heart. Pharaoh would repent to a certain degree out of fear, but would always fall back. It wasn't that he was unsavable. It was that he was unrepentable. I feel as though the stories of Cain and Esau relate to me as well. I hold my life up next to examples like that and the shoe seems to fit. And it continues to fit. But I do not say with 100% certainty - either because I'm afraid to, or I'm just holding out for the possibility that I'm wrong.

 

Now I know different people will read in to the accounts of biblical figures differently, so maybe I have it wrong. But I do hope that gives a good illustration as to how my life has looked like. Yes, I understand Christians sin. But they posses fruit as well. And I do not think I do.

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Dear Aedaz,

Being 'saved' (have been/are being/will be) makes no one perfect in this present life.

 

Christianity is comprised of two parts:

THE GIFT

Which is that of eternal life which, once received, cannot be taken away.

THE PRIZE

Which is only for those who are "accounted worthy"; having 'earned' it, and it is to live and reign with Christ (via the first resurrection) for the period immediately prior to the 'Judgement Seat of Christ'.

All however, via the second resurrection, must stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ, when those 'of faith' (however weak or strong) will, in addition to having at least some work of faith (likened metaphorically to "gold, silver, or precious stones") also have works which metaphorically are comprised of "wood, hay, or stubble', (and that includes addictions such as yours) and these are burned away and purified so that you may thereby be ("saved yet so as through fire")

After such purification the believer will finally be made sinlessly fit to enter the eternal presence of God in his New Jerusalem. and enjoy whatever God has in store in his "house of many mansions".

Forget 'hell', there's no such thing ..... only 'Gehenna, Hades, or Tartarus', all mistranslated by the King James' translators who lazily latched onto a word of Middle Age pagan origination that was etched into their psyche (Young's Literal Translation carefully avoids that mistake).

I'd love to help further if you wish and pray that God will lighten your anguish with his loving care.

God bless....Mike.

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Hi Aedaz! Good to meet you! Sometimes I think it's more natural for us humans to sin than to not. I sin, all the time. We all do. Every other thought running through our brains could be classified as a sin. Nobody can totally and completely keep the 10 commandments, and it's only 10!!! Adam and Eve couldn't keep just one commandment, so how are we expected to keep as many as 10? Truth is, Jesus KNOWS we can't NOT sin. He knows that. That's why He died on the cross for our sins, because otherwise, none of us would ever make it to Heaven and God doesn't want Heaven to be empty. The fact that you are questioning is a good thing, because from questions come answers. The answers never come all at once, but one at a time, when we need them the most. We are sinners, plain and simple. Once we understand that, it sort of helps us to relax a little bit and realize that, hey, God doesn't expect me to be His clone. He knows I can't do that, He knows I will fall on my face every single time. Christians who tell us that they have 'died' to sin are only kidding themselves... they haven't lost the ability to sin and they know it. Still, it sounds great to say it to a seeking person.

 

Christians are not dead to sin. Nope. None of us are and none of us ever have been or ever will be. Let's just get our minds set on that and things become easier to deal with. What Christians really are, are sinners saved by Grace. That means the freely given mercy of God, Who loves us beyond belief and wants as many of us as possible to live with Him in Heaven. Christianity is not a religion. It's not a set of strictly kept rules. It is a close, personal relationship with Jesus. That is something that is just as flexible as any other relationship we humans have. You may have one or two very close friends and several so-so friends who come and go. That is kind of how we should think of our relationship with Christ...how do we make THIS relationship worth keeping? How do we make it stronger and healthier? Truthfully, Jesus doesn't move away from us. We move away from Him, and what you've described sounds pretty much like a story any and all of us could share. My advice... Hang in there. Reach out your hand because Jesus isn't very far away. Nope, not far at all. Hugs! :)

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First of all, do not be discouraged. It just sounds like you are going through some growing pains in your walk with God. Second, realize that even though Jesus has paid our debt does not mean we, as humans, will no longer sin. We are humans, and it is our nature to sin. The difference, though, for a Christian is that we are no longer under the power of sin, meaning we will not have to pay that ultimate price, as Jesus has already taken care of it on the cross. Whenever you find yourself doubting aspects of your relationship with God realize that it is just Satan trying to undermine your faith. That is a perfect time to stop and pray for God to give you the strength to rebuke anything that is not of Him. This is literally part of living in faith. A Christian life is a journey that will have many twists, turns, hills, valleys, etc... Just keep your eye on the prize (eternity with God), and He will see you through it.

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We as humans are flawed and sinful so as long as you're aware of that you can work toward being better. Just honestly repent and then do better, especially when you know you're doing wrong. God forgives as long as you repent. Walking with God is supposed to be hard because you have to actively chose God over the flesh. God understands this and will be patient as long as you continually work on being better despite your flaws.

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I appreciate your honesty

Let me say that God being omniscient doesn't save someone to lose them down the road.

If you are a son / daughter of God you still are. We might not be a good son or daughter but one none the less.

If you can look back and say 'at that time...' drive down the stake and don't let Satan tell you different. Feed on the whole Word at a good church and let God do the cleaning in your live because you.are not looking for a reformation of your own doing but a transformation.

You know the three steps: Justification Santification and being Sealed in and put in service.

It sounds like you have been beat down by poor instruction.

 

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I can really relate, My Christian life started when I asked Jesus into my heart when I was 5 years old But I neglected my spiritual life and would only pray the odd time like in church or at night I would please the blood over me and my family and friends. I was very rational and scientific even when I was young I was always tried to make sense of the Bible and science and tried to get them to fit together but some of the things in the bible sounded quite hard to believe to me but I still kept believing but I began calling myself an agnostic (not an atheist, I still wouldn't want to be an atheist or anything like that) (I even thought it was cool to be an agnostic which is a lie from the devil) saying I don't know if I believe or not but still want to believe. I wanted God to give me a sign I was asking for signs quite a lot, never felt like I got any but still held onto my belief then I started hearing about big bang and evolution in school and I started to believe that God created the big bang since it says in the bible "God created the heavens and the earth" and it says "he flung the stars into space" so that sounds quite compatible with big bang so maybe that is part of how God created the universe and I started to think that creation wasn't actually days but actually some period of time. So I was starting to change parts of the bible without realising it, the bible even warns about this and you should believe everything in the bible to be true. This is just one way I was neglecting my faith, from when I was young I had a fascination in evil I would draw the evil characters out of my favourite shows and movies and when I got older I started listening to heavy metal and marvelled at it. The bible also warns "do not marvel at evil" I became arrogant as I got older I thought I was smarter I always knew best other people s ideas where just stupid, I was always lieing and deceiving and liked to take advantage of others I also stole sweets from the corner every week out of pier pressure trying to be 'cool' until I got caught and told never to come back I would always defend myself and try my best to get myself out of situations by lieing and getting other people blamed and I thought I was so clever cause I was able to trick people so well I even practised being deceitful and always used my brothers to get them in trouble instead even in school I would do the same thing by deceiving teachers and class mates I didn't even think I was doing anything wrong so never even repented of it. and if that wasn't enough my neighbour got me into lust from a young age I was 8 at the time and I was searching for nude pictures of women on the internet from a young age not even realising it was a sin then when I was older I went onto porn websites and started masturbating for years not even thinking it was wrong my whole life I was so neave. I would repent of certain sins such as lies and things I said back and I knew I was still a Christian as I remember having a fear of God and didn't want to go hell ever. But became so unaware of all the sin my life and wasn't reading my bible.

 

So at age 14 or 15 my life was about to become a living hell, I was on the way to church with my family we were in the car and I had this sudden feeling like I got struck by something so sudden my life instantly changed I was extremely terrified, confused, and became really lustful towards men, I am afraid that this was God I seen my life and I was consistently sinning and I'm afraid I'm cut off from God. So I'm now 18 years old and over the last 3 or 4 years I've been fighting and wrestling these thoughts and feelings I was so panicked and dressed, I had no patience with anyone I kept lashing out my mum and dad and little brother who I used to love. My whole world was distorted, I thought only of my self, but I fought on resisting the homosexual feelings, kept telling myself I don't want to be a Homosexual, and after an extremely long battle of despair things have calmed down since and I am no longer lustful towards men, I am beginning to get less self centered, I went through a period of anxiety a few months ago and I would quake and shiver in fear and worry but it has gradually calmed down from then so I am feeling like if God has abandoned me and given me over to my sin then why have things improved in my life so is he helping me, is he giving me a second chance, I still dont know but live in fear of during and going to hell because my hard is very hardened now and I've prayed for God to soften it but it feels like Im unable to pray to God as I'm cut off and unable to speak about my problems also my mind wants to repent of sins but my heart can't repent. I also feel like I have no conscience. I still feel terrible if I cause people hurt but I still feel like part of me is missing I don't like my young self anymore I feel like something has changed in me I've felt different since that point in my life when things changed. My mind knows whats best for me but me I feel like my heart is refusing God is there hope for me?

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I have been in your shoes. That feeling is so horrible and nobody seems to understand the fear and urgency. Often times we do things as Christian's that invite demonic influences into our lives. These influences are very subtle. In other words, just because you aren't spinning your head and vomiting pea soup doesn't mean that a sexual encounter, movie, or music hasn't opened a door to your young developing Christian mind. I believe these doubts that you are having are demonic whispers in your mind whose main purpose is to cause you to doubt your self. Doubt is the Achilles hill to a Christian walk just as your spiritual identity in Christ is your strength to overcome temptation. Everything that takes place during salvation takes place in your spirit. Your mind is yet to be transformed and your body doesn't have a prayer. Because we can not physically see our spirit man that has been transformed, we can be deceived into believing that we no longer belong to the father and have somehow transformed back into a dirty reprobate which turns our focus to our outter man instead of our inward spirit man who is in perfect relationship with God the Father. In a nutshell, regardless of stupid decions that you make, focus more on who you are in your spirit according to what god tells us through Paul's writings (primarily Romans and Corinthians). If you do this simple thing, you will find that directing your focus on God's love for you, instead of your puny insufficient love for him (in the outter man), sin/temptation will slowly lose it's grip in your life. Take your thoughts captive. The voices in your head that are "reasoning" away sin, tell them to shut up and that you belong to Jesus and they will disappear. God bless

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Aedaz, I've been through the same thing, my friend. What's preventing you from believing isn't your sin but your Limited Atonement doctrine.

 

Paul says in Galatians 5:1, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

 

You must consider for a moment that "Christ died ONLY for the elect" is incorrect.

 

This is the kind of "yoke of bondage" that it produces:

 

1. I have no genuine works that prove I'm saved.

2. This means that I must not be one of the elect.

3. If I'm not one of the elect, Christ didn't die for me.

 

The result? You're lost. Not because you have no "genuine works"... but because you conclude that "Christ didn't die for me."

 

So, in order to have "no genuine works" but still come to faith in Christ, you must believe 1 John 2:2, which reads: "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

People who hold to the Limited Atonement doctrine usually state that "anything other than Limited Atonement is universalism". Obviously, this isn't true.

 

To clarify: This does NOT mean that the whole world will be saved. It DOES, however, mean that Christ died FOR the whole world, but the vast majority of people simply REJECTED his payment.

 

Limited Atonement goes like this: "If you end up in hell, then Jesus never died for you."

 

But 1 John 2:2 goes like this: "If you ended up in hell, then you're there for REJECTING the fact that Jesus died for you." In other words, he still died for you, because he died for the whole world!

 

Consider this analogy, my friend.

 

If you were very poor and in very great debt, and you knew you would never be able to pay your debt, but a rich man had compassion on you and wrote you a cheque, you still need to accept his cheque. He's written it, no doubt: but it will not be applied to you unless you accept it.

 

How do you accept it? Well, let's look at how you REJECT it.

 

You REJECT his cheque by saying, "Thanks but no thanks. I can manage to pay the debt on my own" and proceeding to go out and work multiple jobs to try and pay the debt yourself. The debt gets greater and greater and you have to live with the consequences because of your pride, foolishness and ungratefulness.

 

It's the same with the Lord Jesus Christ's payment for your sins. Whether you think you're "one of the elect" or not, the fact of the matter is that he is the propitiation for OUR sins... "and NOT ONLY for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

 

So, instead of getting "entangled again with the yoke of bondage", your reasoning must go like this:

 

1. The Lord Jesus Christ died for the "whole world" (1 John 2:2).

2. I am included in the "whole world".

3. Therefore, the Lord Jesus Christ died for me.

4. God's stamp of approval on this payment as valid is the fact that he raised the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:4).

5. If Jesus' death was good enough for God, it's good enough for me!

 

You then pray to the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. The prayer cannot save you but the prayer is evidence that you believe he is both alive and able to save. You don't pray a prayer because the prayer saves: you recognize that only Christ can save you and that's why you call out to him.

 

There are so many aspects of reformed theology that breed only doubts and fears. "Limited Atonement" is one of them. Of course only those who believe on Christ will be in heaven, but that's not what Limited Atonement implies. Limited Atonement implies "If you don't have works as evidence, you're not the elect, and if you're not the elect, you cannot possibly be saved because Jesus never even died for you."

 

So, you get caught in one of the devil's most subtle traps of all. You're in a position now where you need to go out and deliberately do works SO THAT you can believe Jesus died for you. That's a works-based salvation. Nothing more and nothing less. Think about it: without works, you don't believe Jesus died for you, so you're unsaved, but with works, you do believe Jesus died for you... but now you're no longer placing your trust in that, but in yourself.

 

Read Romans 4:5 and abandon all of your works. Abandon your "evidence" and your "fruits" for the time being because if you're not saved, your "evidence" and "fruits" are self-produced and self-deception.

 

Romans 4:5: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

 

Something interesting to note is the fact that Romans 4:5 teaches it's possible to be saved and have no works. It doesn't say "to him that worketh little" but it says "to him that worketh NOT". Your faith is invisible to your neighbour but God knows the heart (1 John 3:20). The problem with demanding works from people in order to prove that they "really" believe is that the believer in Christ has a new nature AND the flesh. Christians CAN walk in the flesh, they CAN do it for extended periods of time and they CAN be carnal. Reformed preachers will always cause carnal saved people to have doubts.

 

The bible speaks about "childlike faith". This is the faith that many reformed people mock and call a "license to sin".

 

What you need to remember is that people literally accused our apostle Paul of the exact same thing, which is why he had to defend himself so frequently throughout his epistles, saying, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid."

 

There's a reason Paul had to clarify that he isn't condoning sin. It's because he made it very clear throughout his epistles that it's absolutely possible to be saved and to sin. Not only to sin, but to continue sinning. Not only to sin little sins but also grievous sins. This is why Paul spends much of his time talking about the consequences of sin (chastisement, sickness, sorrow, shame at the Lord's coming, loss of rewards and in some cases, slow and painful physical deaths).

 

Another thing to consider is this: Paul very frequently warns Christians about falling into sin because it's POSSIBLE. One of the Corinthians had an ongoing sexual relationship with his father's wife and because of his LACK of repentance, he was cast out of the fellowship to "deliver such an one unto Satan". Now, many reformed people would like to stop there and conclude that such an one is a "reprobate" but let's finish reading the verse: "unto Satan for the destruction OF THE FLESH, that the SPIRIT may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

 

What we have here is a Christian who is so backslidden and unrepentant that he has had to DIE as a result of the severity of his sin... but not even someone like that can undo God's promise that "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life".

 

I'll recommend some books to you.

 

1. "Safety, Certainty, and Enjoyment" by George Cutting. This is a very small book that can be read in 10 minutes. It's more like a tract than a book but it is a great comfort.

 

2. "He That Is Spiritual" by Lewis Sperry Chafer. This book takes you through the scriptures disproving the fact that Christians can't continue in sin, showing you the distinction between natural men (unsaved), carnal men (saved without looking saved) and spiritual men (saved and accompanied with works).

 

Another thing I'd like to mention is my personal experience. Sometimes, I look, act and feel "unsaved" but almost all of the time, that's only when I lack assurance but with assurance comes joy and obedience. TRUST and OBEY. You must get saved by trusting alone, however, this will not guarantee you joy. You will receive joy when you trust AND obey.

 

In summary,

 

1. The Lord Jesus Christ died for the WHOLE world (1 John 2:2).

2. That includes you.

3. The Lord Jesus Christ died for YOU.

4. He rose from the dead.

5. He's the only one who can save you and this should cause you to call upon him in prayer.

6. He will not accept or reject you based on how much emotion you expressed, how guilty you felt or how impressive your prayer sounded...

 

John 6:37 "him that cometh to me I will in NO WISE cast out."

 

Matthew 14:36 "And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole" (they might not have had the strongest faith of all, but the faith they had was placed in the right person - they might not have submitted their entire lives to the Lord in an instant, but in merely touching the hem of his garment, they were made whole).

 

If you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for your sins and physically rose from the dead, you know you can't contribute to or earn your salvation and have called upon him as a result of recognizing him as the only one who can save you, then you're saved. For your own sake, for your joy, for your assurance and for "the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:3), I would advise you to leave behind your identity as a "Calvinist" (1 Corinthians 3:4) and stop reading or listening to people who identify as reformed (Colossians 2:8).

 

Salvation is a free gift that is available to all who accept it. However, you must "walk in the Spirit" if you want lasting joy, peace and contentment. Do your prayers feel apathetic and lukewarm? Pray long and hard for God to renew you and transform you. Do you not have a desire to read the scriptures? Pray long and hard for God to GIVE you a "hunger and thirst". Not every saved person is fellowshipping with the Father, abiding in the Son and walking in the Spirit but those who are have joy, peace and contentment.

 

Lastly, always remember this: Salvation is something God does FOR us. It's something that he desperately wants. He wants one lost sheep to recognize Christ as the only Saviour and call upon him. The angels of heaven rejoice over one sinner that repents (repent doesn't mean "stop sinning" but "change your mind"). All saved people have repented, even those who lack fruit, because they have changed their mind about their old beliefs and placed their faith in Christ instead.

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53 minutes ago, Fra said:

What's preventing you from believing isn't your sin but your Limited Atonement doctrine.

🤣

 

 

John Owen.jpg

53 minutes ago, Fra said:

To clarify: This does NOT mean that the whole world will be saved. It DOES, however, mean that Christ died FOR the whole world, but the vast majority of people simply REJECTED his payment.

So you believe those that reject Christ Jesus were regenerated? Or were they never regenerated? If Jesus atoned and propitiated for the sins of the whole world whom did He lose? If you say they were not regenerated but regenerated after they believed how do you reconcile your timing in Ephesians 2:5 which states "when" man was regenerated? That is, when he was dead in sin and trespass, up until which he was an unbeliever, at enmity against Him. Philippians 1:29; John 10:26.

 

Before you quote John 3:16 read John 3:18 and ask yourself how and/or why are some condemned already?

 

Exactly what happened in the life of the Elect after they were already enemies of God? Are you suggesting they simply applied an autonomous or libertarian will?

53 minutes ago, Fra said:

I would advise you to leave behind your identity as a "Calvinist" (1 Corinthians 3:4) and stop reading or listening to people who identify as reformed (Colossians 2:8).

You're an idiot that quotes Scriptures with as much aptitude as a parrot.

 

Hope you stick around, we'd like to work on that.

53 minutes ago, Fra said:

People who hold to the Limited Atonement doctrine usually state that "anything other than Limited Atonement is universalism". Obviously, this isn't true.

No, those that point to Unlimited Atonement conveys Pelagianism. If you were consistent and could think your theology through you'd see the flaw in your doctrine.

53 minutes ago, Fra said:

So, you get caught in one of the devil's most subtle traps of all. You're in a position now where you need to go out and deliberately do works SO THAT you can believe Jesus died for you. That's a works-based salvation. Nothing more and nothing less. Think about it: without works, you don't believe Jesus died for you, so you're unsaved, but with works, you do believe Jesus died for you... but now you're no longer placing your trust in that, but in yourself.

You're not very familiar with the actual Protestant doctrine of Monergism are you?

 

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24 minutes ago, William said:

You're an idiot that quotes Scriptures with as much aptitude as a parrot.

 

Hope you stick around, we'd like to work on that.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

 

Let all things be done unto edifying.

 

And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

 

I wrote my original post with the sole intention of edifying the original poster. I've gone through struggles with doubt because of the things that reformed people have said.

 

A lot of what they say are the traditions of men (for example, Paul Washer says that saved people cannot have pleasure in sin for a season, which causes many saved people to doubt their salvation because they fall into temptation, but Hebrews 11:25 says that there is pleasure in sin for a season).

 

I believe 1 John 2:2 and I don't want to make it overly complicated because 400+ years of reformed theologians debating each other has profited nothing but has taken away from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

Only when I walked away from "reformed theology" and started reading and listening to dispensationalists and baptists did my joy increase... only when I realized that there's more to life than John McArthur, who says that the blood of Christ is irrelevant, that being overly focused on one particular doctrine is evidence that you're lost and that attending his church in person is evidence that the Holy Spirit is working in you...

 

My walk with the Lord became better after I started to learn about the doctrine of carnal Christians and the circumcision made without hands. I was living in fear, but there is no fear in love. Perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. If we doubt our salvation, we're doing something wrong and we don't have a healthy fellowship with God at that particular moment.

 

I wrote my comment for the edifying of the original poster, not to get into a vain debate with someone who is puffed up with knowledge.

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10 minutes ago, Fra said:

I wrote my comment for the edifying of the original poster, not to get into a vain debate with someone who is puffed up with knowledge.

Yes, I know the type, those that want to edify but are not willing to be edified themselves.

 

Show me a person which has a relationship with Jesus without any knowledge of Him.

 

The very knowledge you suggest is puffing up is evidence of a relationship with Christ the Lord.

 

You came upon a board that owned and operated by Reformed staff. And you suggest that others should quit listening to us?

10 minutes ago, Fra said:

Only when I walked away from "reformed theology" and started reading and listening to dispensationalists and baptists did my joy increase... only when I realized that there's more to life than John McArthur, who says that the blood of Christ is irrelevant, that being overly focused on one particular doctrine is evidence that you're lost and that attending his church in person is evidence that the Holy Spirit is working in you...

John MacArthur is not Reformed. You're demonstrating your ignorance on the subject matter. Though John MacArthur is a Five Point Calvinist he is Non-denominational.

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13 minutes ago, William said:

Yes, I know the type, those that want to edify but are not willing to be edified themselves.

 

Show me a person which has a relationship with Jesus without any knowledge of Him.

 

The very knowledge you suggest is puffing up is evidence of a relationship with Christ the Lord.

Is knowing Jesus about Calvin vs Arminius, about what the reformers said or about systems and philosophies made up by learned intellectuals?

 

I'm not saying you're puffed up BECAUSE of your knowledge. I'm saying you're puffed up WITH your knowledge. It just seems a bit odd that someone who has so much of the knowledge of Jesus and so much evidence of a relationship with him thinks there's edifying to be found in calling someone an idiot and comparing them to a parrot.

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13 minutes ago, William said:

You came upon a board that owned and operated by Reformed staff. And you suggest that others should quit listening to us?

Good point. Maybe you're right about this.

 

My reasoning was that this person was having doubts with their salvation. In a spirit of edifying, I suggested that rather than getting caught up in debates between Calvinists and Arminians, or studying TULIP, or listening to online preachers who say absurd things, they should go back to the "simplicity that is in Christ", as far as assurance is concerned.

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22 minutes ago, Fra said:

Is knowing Jesus about Calvin vs Arminius, about what the reformers said or about systems and philosophies made up by learned intellectuals?

 

I'm not saying you're puffed up BECAUSE of your knowledge. I'm saying you're puffed up WITH your knowledge. It just seems a bit odd that someone who has so much of the knowledge of Jesus and so much evidence of a relationship with him thinks there's edifying to be found in calling someone an idiot and comparing them to a parrot.

No problem, I identified you as an idiot rather quickly. I can understand how the uneducated believe that a Calvinist follows Calvin rather than Christ. For the record I do not follow Calvin, but I believe his hermeneutical lens is the best way of presenting the true Gospel.

 

And furthermore, if you're not Reformed then really you should stay out of the business of the Reformed church. Unless you're siding with Arminianism which arose within the Reformed church? A theology which leads back to Rome?

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6 minutes ago, William said:

if you're not Reformed then really you should stay out of the business of the Reformed church

You mean the Church, the body of Christ?

 

You already made the point that I'm "uneducated" to believe that a Calvinist follows Calvin rather than Christ... when you then call your people the "Reformed church" rather than "Christians" or "brothers". Is this how it is? Is there the Reformed body of Christ and the Baptist body of Christ and a bunch of other bodies of Christ, or is there just THE Body of Christ, that is, people who we identify as fellow brothers and sisters?

 

'I'm not following Calvin... but if YOU'RE not following Calvin, then get out of the "Reformed church" and go back to your plebeian church'...

Edited by Fra

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3 hours ago, Fra said:

You mean the Church, the body of Christ?

 

You already made the point that I'm "uneducated" to believe that a Calvinist follows Calvin rather than Christ... when he clearly calls his people the "Reformed church" rather than "Christians" or "brothers". Is this how it is? Is there the Reformed body of Christ and the Baptist body of Christ and a bunch of other bodies of Christ, or is there just THE Body of Christ, that is, people who we identify as fellow brothers and sisters?

 

'I'm not following Calvin... but if YOU'RE not following Calvin, then get out of the "Reformed church" and go back to your plebeian church'...

Get out of my website you theological idiot.

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@Fra Is your name Fran?

 

My Troll sense is tingling.

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