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John Calvin puts forward a very simple reason why love is the greatest gift: “Because faith and hope are our own: love is diffused among others.” In other words, faith and hope benefit the possessor, but love always benefits another. In John 13:34–35 Jesus says, “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Love always requires an “other” as an object; love cannot remain within itself, and that is part of what makes love the greatest gift.
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MichaelFromEngland

Sorry I just joined but now I see this isn't the site for me (Catholics in Disguise)

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MichaelFromEngland

I was hoping to find a Protestant forum and as this calls itself "The Protestant Community" I was concerned to click the "Belief" link at the top and find under:

 

"Doctrinal Statement": "And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."

"Apostles Creed": "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,"

"Athanasian Creed": "This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved."

 

Three strikes and you're out.

 

Have fun with the vain repetitions, eating Jesus crackers, praying to the sinner Mary, revering your "holy father", and burning in hell for all eternity. I'm off to find some real Christians.

 

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

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StanJ

Guess he didn't understand what the true meaning of the word 'catholic' is?

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MichaelFromEngland

A word that isn't in the book of life. I understand that the catholic church is the mother of harlots and abominations of the world.

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StanJ
A word that isn't in the book of life. I understand that the catholic church is the mother of harlots and abominations of the world.

 

The only words found in the book of life are people's names so of course catholic is not in the Book of Life. Catholic does not mean Roman Catholic Church it means Universal.

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theophilus
I'm off to find some real Christians.

There are plenty of real Christians on this site. I suggest that you read some of the posts before you decide to leave.

 

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Origen
Staff

Goodbye MichaelFromEngland. Don't call us, we'll call you.

 

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Novelangel

Good heavens, someone has a bee in his bonnet over Catholics. I'm afraid that he has a problem if he expects to find only protestant Christians on a Christian forum site. Granted, this place is called The Protestant Community, but I can't see any Christian site keeping out a large portion of the Christian community. I don't know if Catholics make up the largest portion of the community or not here in the U.S., but in a lot of different countries... they do. For instance, if I'm not mistaken, in the Philippines there is a huge Christian population... constructed almost entirely of Catholics. I don't agree with everything the Catholic church teaches either, but I'm not going to be up in arms over it or run for the hills at the mere sight of Catholicism. And the suggestion that Catholics aren't REAL Christians? Wow... someone needs to eat a little piece of humble pie here. We are ALL sinners, saved by Grace, and there are Christians in every church. There are also NON-Christians in every church. When we all get to Heaven we will likely be quite surprised when we see who is there and who is not. Speaking as someone who once met up with this sort of anti-Catholic bigotry in person, (and I'm not even Catholic) I would never treat another child of God in such a way. ALL of our churches and belief systems contain mistakes. None of our churches are perfectly following the will of God. The reason?... We are human and humans make mistakes. I don't know if this guy is still here or not, but I'm going to finish this rant regardless, in case someone else comes along who needs to see it. Our faith is one of love, not hate and we need to come at each other with compassion and loving, rather than bigotry and hatred. When we meet up with someone whose beliefs are different from ours we are not meant to just run away, or put up our dukes and fight. We are meant to teach... and even learn. We are meant to spread the gospel of Christ, not attack at the slightest imagined provocation. Okay. Rant over. God bless.

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MichaelFromEngland

Clearly this site is an insidious attempt by Catholics to lure Protestants back under their "universal" umbrella in a counter-reformation style - where they masquerade as Protestants on the surface and Catholics underneath. Is it bad to warn against this kind of deception that will lead souls to hell?

 

You must really hate the Holy Bible Novelangel if you think I'm saying 'anti-Catholic bigotry' because that is where we get it from.

 

That's why Catholics obscured the Bible for 1000 years and burned people like Tyndale at the stake for translating it and owning translations that they could read.

 

Catholics are the worst persecutors of Christians in human history, the pope is antichrist and any believer who studies (I.e. Revelation 17 & 18) will know this fact and come out of Catholicism.

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StanJ
Clearly this site is an insidious attempt by Catholics to lure Protestants back under their "universal" umbrella in a counter-reformation style - where they masquerade as Protestants on the surface and Catholics underneath. Is it bad to warn against this kind of deception that will lead souls to hell?

 

You must really hate the Holy Bible Novelangel if you think I'm saying 'anti-Catholic bigotry' because that is where we get it from.

 

That's why Catholics obscured the Bible for 1000 years and burned people like Tyndale at the stake for translating it and owning translations that they could read.

 

Catholics are the worst persecutors of Christians in human history, the pope is antichrist and any believer who studies (I.e. Revelation 17 & 18) will know this fact and come out of Catholicism.

 

I think you need to go see a doctor and get some medication for those two noids you've developed.

 

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William
Staff
Clearly this site is an insidious attempt by Catholics to lure Protestants back under their "universal" umbrella in a counter-reformation style - where they masquerade as Protestants on the surface and Catholics underneath. Is it bad to warn against this kind of deception that will lead souls to hell?

 

You must really hate the Holy Bible Novelangel if you think I'm saying 'anti-Catholic bigotry' because that is where we get it from.

 

That's why Catholics obscured the Bible for 1000 years and burned people like Tyndale at the stake for translating it and owning translations that they could read.

 

Catholics are the worst persecutors of Christians in human history, the pope is antichrist and any believer who studies (I.e. Revelation 17 & 18) will know this fact and come out of Catholicism.

 

I guarantee you'll regret every word you said when you become educated in Christianity:

 

Got Questions: Nicene Creed

 

Got Questions: Catholic Meaning and Definition

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MichaelFromEngland

Every word? Even that of what Catholics did to Tyndale and other Christians for rejecting Catholic heresy? I believe in sola scriptura so if you're going to argue please use scripture (KJV: Ecclesiastes 8:4 Where the word of a king is, there is power) and don't come at me with what some pope has said in the past or any unbiblical oaths, I trust God not men. Here are some verses to contemplate:

 

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

 

Jeremiah 44:25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

 

Ezekiel 23:37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery,

 

1 Chronicles 5:25 And they transgressed against the God of their fathers, and went a whoring after the gods of the people of the land, whom God destroyed before them.

 

John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

 

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

 

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

 

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

Revelation 18:4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. (Gen. 11:1-9)

 

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

 

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

 

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (John 2:16)

 

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

 

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

 

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

 

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. (Mark 9:42)

 

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

 

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

 

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

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theophilus
Our faith is one of love

Love is important but so is truth. We are commanded to speak the truth in love, and emphasizing either truth or love at the expense of the other is disastrous. The Bible commands us to love one another but it also warns about false teachers who lead believers astray and the Catholic Church is run by some of these false teachers. Here is a good place to find out about some of the Catholic Church's teachings. http://carm.org/roman-catholicism

 

Catholics are the worst persecutors of Christians in human history

Even worse than ISIS?

 

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William
Staff
Every word? Even that of what Catholics did to Tyndale and other Christians for rejecting Catholic heresy? I believe in sola scriptura so if you're going to argue please use scripture (KJV: Ecclesiastes 8:4 Where the word of a king is, there is power) and don't come at me with what some pope has said in the past or any unbiblical oaths, I trust God not men. Here are some verses to contemplate:

 

What part of this do you not get? We are not Catholic as in Roman Catholic, though there are a few members here in this forum that belong to various Catholic rites. The majority of us are Protestants, and I am specifically a Reformed Presbyterian. The use of "catholic" in the Nicene, Apostles, and Athanasian Creed refers to the "Universal" Church. These Creeds are what all Protestant denominations have in common, they agree upon these central truths making them Christian. I am more inclined to believe that your rejection of the Creed(s) is symptomatic of ignorance or being in a Sect or Cult.

 

You say that these are unbiblical oaths or professions, then you quote Scripture. Fine, parrot Scripture by copying and pasting them, even a copy press can do the same thing, and never try to convey what they mean or the essentials of Christianity, because once you do that you are held accountable for not only your interpretation but profession, and it will reveal how little you understand about the Scriptures, Creeds, or your misalignment to the Christian faith. Once you try to explain any of these you are by yourself essentially professing a creed.

 

William

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MichaelFromEngland

Theophilus, even worse than ISIS which has been around for under a decade and doesn't have 1% of the kill count of Catholicism. I suggest you study what Catholics did for 1000 years to countless Christians who would not heed to their doctrines. Please give me beheading over the cruellest torture techniques ever devised by the Inquisition.

 

William, those creeds were devised by Catholics and for Catholics and there is nothing Christian about them. Constantine used Christianity to consolidate his power, similar to Hitler using Christianity to win election. When I use Catholic I am speaking of course of the modern vernacular of what it is to be a Catholic. If you want to avoid confusion I can use the term Romanist if you like, it serves as a reminder that the doctrine of the Catholic church dates back to Roman pagan religions pre-dating Christ all the way to Egypt and Babylon. The many churches that believers are all part of being one is this: they are all built with Christ as the foundation rock, not doctrines of men.

 

What's with the personal attacks and dismissive presumption of ignorance, lacking understanding, or being in a cult? Have I said anything wrong? If so please clarify with scripture. I selected the most relevant to my point, and plenty too to show I am not just cherry-picking but taking the whole context of the Bible. Catholicism is the cult of popery. Do you accept that Romanism, the "Mother Church" is the "Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth"? If not, why- do you have a better candidate?

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Knotical

@MichaelFromEngland, while there are some catholics on this site it was in fact founded by a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, which is a part of the overall Protestant church. Many of the Protestant churches have adopted many of the creeds that were first penned by the Catholic church, but we are markedly different from that when it comes to Theology and sound Doctrines. Try perusing the Westminster Confession, along with the Westminster Catechism.

 

By the way, the word "catholic" literally means "universal." It does not, necessarily refer to the Roman Catholic church.

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William
Staff
Theophilus, even worse than ISIS which has been around for under a decade and doesn't have 1% of the kill count of Catholicism. I suggest you study what Catholics did for 1000 years to countless Christians who would not heed to their doctrines. Please give me beheading over the cruellest torture techniques ever devised by the Inquisition.

 

William, those creeds were devised by Catholics and for Catholics and there is nothing Christian about them. Constantine used Christianity to consolidate his power, similar to Hitler using Christianity to win election. When I use Catholic I am speaking of course of the modern vernacular of what it is to be a Catholic. If you want to avoid confusion I can use the term Romanist if you like, it serves as a reminder that the doctrine of the Catholic church dates back to Roman pagan religions pre-dating Christ all the way to Egypt and Babylon. The many churches that believers are all part of being one is this: they are all built with Christ as the foundation rock, not doctrines of men.

 

What's with the personal attacks and dismissive presumption of ignorance, lacking understanding, or being in a cult? Have I said anything wrong? If so please clarify with scripture. I selected the most relevant to my point, and plenty too to show I am not just cherry-picking but taking the whole context of the Bible. Catholicism is the cult of popery. Do you accept that Romanism, the "Mother Church" is the "Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth"? If not, why- do you have a better candidate?

 

It seems that you do not want to admit that you're wrong. You agree to disassociate "catholic" or the universal church with Romanism then you go on about Roman Catholicism.

 

Have I said anything wrong? If so please clarify with scripture.

 

Why don't you go into the Creed and Confession sub-forums and make your case? I guarantee it will expose your ignorance on the subject at hand.

 

By the way, which church do you belong? And how do you know that it isn't a cult? Is there a Creed or Profession of Faith from your church available for people to read?

 

William

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MichaelFromEngland

@Knotical I certainly don't deny there must be Protestants on here, but I am wary of coming under the banner of such creeds, under the semantics of "catholic".

 

Can I come here rejecting these creeds though I feel like a sheep among wolves? I am happy to make a declaration of faith:

 

God chose me before the foundation of the world, I - a wretched sinner who deserves death and hell - am saved by grace through believing on His only begotten Son the Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, died on the cross to pay the price for my sins and has ascended to the Father in heaven. Praise be to the living God!

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William
Staff
@Knotical I certainly don't deny there must be Protestants on here, but I am wary of coming under the banner of such creeds, under the semantics of "catholic".

 

Can I come here rejecting these creeds though I feel like a sheep among wolves? I am happy to make a declaration of faith:

 

God chose me before the foundation of the world, I - a wretched sinner who deserves death and hell - am saved by grace through believing on His only begotten Son the Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, died on the cross to pay the price for my sins and has ascended to the Father in heaven. Praise be to the living God!

 

What church do you belong Michael? Can you provide a link to it on the web? I am interested about what your congregation or body of believers professes.

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Knotical
@Knotical I certainly don't deny there must be Protestants on here, but I am wary of coming under the banner of such creeds, under the semantics of "catholic".

 

Can I come here rejecting these creeds though I feel like a sheep among wolves? I am happy to make a declaration of faith:

 

God chose me before the foundation of the world, I - a wretched sinner who deserves death and hell - am saved by grace through believing on His only begotten Son the Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, died on the cross to pay the price for my sins and has ascended to the Father in heaven. Praise be to the living God!

 

Have you read through the Nicene or Apostle's Creed? They are literally summaries of what we believe. Just by reciting them does not mean we ascribe to any of the Roman Catholic doctrines.

 

It appears to me you are relatively new to the faith and are getting a bit confused on some of the terminology. Please take a look through the resource section of this site, and certainly ask questions. We are more than willing to help you come to a better understanding of many of the supporting documents to the Bible.

 

Just to clarify, many of us attend churches that are Bible believing, and only ascribe to documents that have direct biblical support.

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William
Staff
Can I come here rejecting these creeds though I feel like a sheep among wolves? I am happy to make a declaration of faith:

 

God chose me before the foundation of the world, I - a wretched sinner who deserves death and hell - am saved by grace through believing on His only begotten Son the Lord Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, died on the cross to pay the price for my sins and has ascended to the Father in heaven. Praise be to the living God!

 

Yes, you may. However, I will say that I personally think a red flag has been raised about you. Lets examine your profession of faith. You're using the word God, can you please define God according to Scripture? I am interested to know whether your profession aligns with the Nicene Creed.

 

I actually don't have anything to pick apart about your profession, as vague as it is, that is, it assumes that the reader understands the terms you are using. You haven't mentioned anything about which church you belong in your profession of faith? Why is that? Do you think you're a church of one individual?

 

William

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MichaelFromEngland

William There are many churches, not just one that began with Constantine and the Catholic Church, this is the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.

 

I am really only interested in God's word as I previously said, my creed is the gospel. Any church built on the one rock that is Christ Jesus, the word of God.

 

As for defining God, this sounds like a life long exercise which I may never finish as God is limitless and we cannot fully comprehend His glory, but He reveals Himself:

 

Jesus Christ is the Lord, His name is above all other names, He is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, He is the Godhead, the Father in Heaven, the Son on Earth, the Spirit in believers, He is the Word, He is the one who is, He is holy, He is blessed, He is living, He is eternal, He is sovereign, He is supreme, He can do all things, He is good, He is love, He is righteous, He is just, He is a high tower, a shield, a rock, a fortress, He brings a sword, He divides, He never changes, He repents, He forgives, He rewards, He saves, He has mercy, He is gracious, He is a healer, He is a warrior, He leads, He gives wisdom, He gives power, He gives everlasting life, He is the most high, He works wonders, signs, parables, and miracles, He justifies, sanctifies, glorifies, He corrects and He chastens, His glory is reflected in his creation, He created man in His image, His thoughts are above ours, His words are pure and refined, He is worthy of praise and worship, He is jealous, He hates evil, He purges wickedness, He is slow to anger, He is almighty, He is victorious, He has thoughts of peace towards us, He wants all to come to repentance and none to perish, He is coming quickly.

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William
Staff
William There are many churches, not just one that began with Constantine and the Catholic Church, this is the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.

 

I am really only interested in God's word as I previously said, my creed is the gospel. Any church built on the one rock that is Christ Jesus, the word of God.

 

As for defining God, this sounds like a life long exercise which I may never finish as God is limitless and we cannot fully comprehend His glory, but He reveals Himself:

 

Jesus Christ is the Lord, His name is above all other names, He is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, He is the Godhead, the Father in Heaven, the Son on Earth, the Spirit in believers, He is the Word, He is the one who is, He is holy, He is blessed, He is living, He is eternal, He is sovereign, He is supreme, He can do all things, He is good, He is love, He is righteous, He is just, He is a high tower, a shield, a rock, a fortress, He brings a sword, He divides, He never changes, He repents, He forgives, He rewards, He saves, He has mercy, He is gracious, He is a healer, He is a warrior, He leads, He gives wisdom, He gives power, He gives everlasting life, He is the most high, He works wonders, signs, parables, and miracles, He justifies, sanctifies, glorifies, He corrects and He chastens, His glory is reflected in his creation, He created man in His image, His thoughts are above ours, His words are pure and refined, He is worthy of praise and worship, He is jealous, He hates evil, He purges wickedness, He is slow to anger, He is almighty, He is victorious, He has thoughts of peace towards us, He wants all to come to repentance and none to perish, He is coming quickly.

 

You are still going off on Roman Catholicism, Michael. You must disassociate the universal or catholic church with Roman Catholicism or the other twenty some rites that also claim themselves to be "THE CHURCH" either because of this or that, or even Apostolic succession. Lets examine what you suggested, you say that any church built on the rock of Jesus Christ or the word of God belongs to the church? Is the church therefore universal? So all these churches have this in common, there is a starter, lets look at the Nicene Creed, it professes that all believers have one baptism in common for the remission of sins, since they all have one baptism in common this is the standard for initiation into the universal or catholic church. Do you agree or disagree? Also the church uses the word apostolic which refers to their doctrine, as found in the bible, the word of God, and not apostolic succession as Catholics believe. Do you agree or disagree?

 

Lastly, you have not shared anything about the Triune nature of God? Is your God Triune? How does your statement of profession differ from the Nicene Creed? If it does not, than your statement of faith is in harmony with the Nicene Creed. Lets examine the use of catholic and apostolic which I have addressed. Do you now see that this has nothing to do with Catholicism?

 

Take this to heart Michael when the Creed uses the word "We". Because any discrepancy with a believer and the Creed usually reveals either a misunderstanding or a rejection of a body from the standard of Denominationalism. All denominations agree to these central truths found in the Creed, and rejection therefore defines them as either a Sect or Cult.

 

William

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atpollard
William There are many churches, not just one that began with Constantine and the Catholic Church, this is the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth.

 

I am really only interested in God's word as I previously said, my creed is the gospel. Any church built on the one rock that is Christ Jesus, the word of God.

 

As for defining God, this sounds like a life long exercise which I may never finish as God is limitless and we cannot fully comprehend His glory, but He reveals Himself:

 

Jesus Christ is the Lord, His name is above all other names, He is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, He is the Godhead, the Father in Heaven, the Son on Earth, the Spirit in believers, He is the Word, He is the one who is, He is holy, He is blessed, He is living, He is eternal, He is sovereign, He is supreme, He can do all things, He is good, He is love, He is righteous, He is just, He is a high tower, a shield, a rock, a fortress, He brings a sword, He divides, He never changes, He repents, He forgives, He rewards, He saves, He has mercy, He is gracious, He is a healer, He is a warrior, He leads, He gives wisdom, He gives power, He gives everlasting life, He is the most high, He works wonders, signs, parables, and miracles, He justifies, sanctifies, glorifies, He corrects and He chastens, His glory is reflected in his creation, He created man in His image, His thoughts are above ours, His words are pure and refined, He is worthy of praise and worship, He is jealous, He hates evil, He purges wickedness, He is slow to anger, He is almighty, He is victorious, He has thoughts of peace towards us, He wants all to come to repentance and none to perish, He is coming quickly.

 

Hebrews 10:19-25

 

"19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

 

How are you obeying the instructions of Verses 24 and 25?

I am part of the UNIVERSAL CHURCH OF ALL WHO BELIEVE IN AND HAVE BEEN REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!

I am NOT Roman Catholic (although I have far less trouble with the denomination in which I heard the Gospel than you seem to.)

However, you come in calling me a whore for believing the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds, and ... those are fighting words.

You have been asked politely, and you have rudely evaded the question, while claiming to want to hear only Scripture.

So be it.

 

 

Scripture charges you with hypocracy and violation of numerous commands of the Lord Jesus Christ to Love, Abide, Serve and stand united in fellowship.

Scripture asks you, what William asked you. Where do you fellowship?

 

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William
Staff

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

  • 4 "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6
  • 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)
  • 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

The Nicene Creed associates baptism with the Church. The creed's statement above comes immediately after confessing “one holy catholic and apostolic church.” Baptism is a sacrament or ordinance of the Church commanded by Christ. There is no warrant for its being performed outside the Church. Baptism is to be done in the presence of the assembly of God’s people. Baptism is the initiatory rite of the visible Church, meaning that normally those who enter the Church receive this sacrament based on their faith in Christ or on their covenant entitlement.

 

God bless,

William

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MichaelFromEngland

@atpollard It's God's word that calls Romanism the "Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth" - they are fighting words indeed, if you take issue, for instance if you identify your faith as a child of Roman Catholicism, please that take it up with God.

 

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

 

Scripture charges you with hypocracy and violation of numerous commands of the Lord Jesus Christ to Love, Abide, Serve and stand united in fellowship.

 

Hypocrisy by what, encouraging the dividing from Romanism which is based on unbiblical doctrines of men and standing fast with those who are built on the foundation of Jesus Christ? Out of love rebuking Romanists, pulling them out of the fire (Jude 1:23) and serving those who are built on the foundation of Jesus Christ with edifying, teaching and correcting?

 

Jesus wasn't afraid to rustle some jimmies when so-called believers were wrong, for instance in Matthew 23. He got people so worked up that they wanted to kill him.

 

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

I stand with the body of Christ united against anti-Christian Roman Catholicism. I fellowship independently wherever the body of Christ is in spirit, be it Baptist, Anglican, Evangelical churches, and so on:

 

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

 

 

@William Nowhere in the Bible does it say there is a universal or catholic church. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - where does that say one church?

 

One Lord - Jesus, One Faith - Christianity, One Baptism... I will get on to this baptism business which you have cited a few times in just a minute.

 

Churches are a variety of different believers who do things differently in different places from houses to larger congregations, in 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 the churches are a metaphor for different body parts of the body of Christ. Isn't saying all the churches are in catholicism changing Jesus to "universal"?.

 

Do all those churches have that foundation rock in common? Not so when man-made rites and creeds get thrown into the cement mix.

 

I have a question for you- is the one baptism: by man with water, by God with the Holy Spirit, or... something else,? For instance in Acts 19:4 we are told that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. It certainly isn't agreed upon by everyone, so how can this creed be universally be adhered to if everyone cannot agree on what it means? Christ used such doctrines to divide.

 

There is so much talk of universal unity pushed by Catholics, and, um, "catholics" and yet God showed unity was a bad thing at the tower of Babel and divides a lot, light from dark, land from sea, good from evil, wheat from chaff, sheep from goats, the left hand from the right hand, and so on. We are divided by those whose foundation is Christ (Christians - the body of Christ) and those who have some other foundation (heretics, apostates).

 

Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

 

I don't really know all the in's and out's of Apostolic succession doctrine or such creeds, and no offense but I don't really care, it isn't in the Bible and has nothing to do with the gospel of salvation, we're getting into man-made theology.

 

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

Nowhere in the Bible does is a trinity mentioned, sure the Godhead is mentioned but it does not have the same literal meaning, and there are kind of hints in 1 John 5:7-8 but this is far from definitive as you will know by contrasting different versions of the Bible.

 

I am averse to the trinity doctrine as it originated in Babylon: Semiramis, Nimrod and Tammuz, but you might recognise the Egyptian trinity better: IHS. Isis, Horus and Set. You know, stamped on Catholic cookies and the logo of the Jesuits. Again nothing to do with the gospel or salvation.

 

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

Isn't the hallmark of a pseudo-Christian cult to turn major doctrine into minor doctrine and minor doctrine into major doctrine?

 

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

-- Michael

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